Fanfic Pet Peeves

[Arashi]

Good or bad in fiction is also completely relative. Some would consider Twilight a good book. Some consider it bad. Is it well written? Certainly.

Certainly NOT, in my opinion.

Anyway, I often read team fic on Sg-1 and Atlantis, but when it comes to ships I am pretty much a diehard Sam/Jack fan and don't really like reading other ships involving the two of them. I am way more flexible with other characters in the shows (for example, I really like Sheppard/Weir, but sometimes I read Sheppard/Teyla too), but I like Sam/Jack and while I'm sure there are some awesome well-written fics out there with other pairings, but like Fems said, if I can't imagine or like the characters together, it's not going to work for me.

[Raelis]

I agree with most of the other posters. I'm sure I'm missing out on all the wonderful Avengers and Sherlock fanfiction (in fact, I know I'm missing out, seeing as all of my favorite authors now write in these fandoms). But I can't bring myself to become interested in the movie/show, so I will probably never read all those amazing stories. Same with pairings. Same with genres. I just don't care for John/Teyla or historical AUs, for example. Is it a shame? Maybe it is, but I'd rather read excellent stories focused on pairings that I love, and when I run out of such stories, I will move to a different fandom. Life is so short that we will always miss out on some good writing.

That said, sometimes I feel a bit adventurous and read pairings/genres that I normally wouldn't. I do like to "broaden my horizons" from time to time.

By the way, before Stargate I was pretty much exclusively ship and slash gal. Stargate taught me to appreciate gen fic. Of course, there's not a lot of gen fic with plots that are genuinely gripping. Most gen fic I love to read is about friendships and family. I always prefer my fic plotty, but not at the expense of character development. Honestly, the reason I turn to fanfic is because I'm not satisified with the way the characters were treated in canon, and I want something else for them. Characters and their relationships (romantic and platonic) is what defines fanfic for me and why I love it so much.

[Kimberley Jackson]

Question: Do you only read 'ship, or do you read gen (non-ship) fanfic too? Because there is some fantastic gen fanfic, and I have to admit that I don't quite understand the mindset of people who will only read 'ship... like the only kind of story that's worth anything to them is a romance... which kind of makes me wonder how they became interested in science fiction in the first place, since as a genre it isn't particularly filled with romance literature or shows and I would think they'd have been more likely to just stick to romance novels, etc.

Valid question. I have read gen fiction occasionally, but I guess I am guilty of reading (and writing) mostly romance. Weirdly enough I am not at all into romance/drama shows though. Just romance is too boring for me. Just sci-fi without any character developments and relationships is too boring for me as well. I think it is the mix. And Stargate, if you ask me, always could have been a bit more generous with the romance stuff. I'm not saying pink wedding and rose petals - nope, not at all - just the hint of a happy ending for Sam and Jack for example. If they had given us that on the show, I probably wouldn't even read so much romance fanfiction. To me, I read fanfiction mostly to read about that stuff which I don't see on screen. Don't know if that makes any sense at all, but it's why I enjoy it.

To say that, just because one is into sci-fy one shouldn't care about romance is drawing too strict a line, in my opinion. I respect when people are not interested in romance at all - that's why the writer's kept it out of the show, and that's why there's fanfiction. And I also respect when people are mostly into romance - although to my experience those people then hardly ever watche Stargate or Star Trek, but rather settle for Grey's Anatomy, Private Practice and the likes.

It was picked apart by an English Major I know... I can't say I agree after his lengthy mocking rant.

I have a masters degree in English and American Literature and Culture myself, and I somewhat enjoyed her style. So there you go... two conflicting opinions by essentially equally qualified people, which proves my (or rather science's) point about literature in general: It's entirely up to the reader. We may create a canon of what we perceive to be 'great' literature, but you will never finding everybody to agree with it. Somebody brought up Stephen King - who is essentially also considered part of American literary history by now. Some like his books, other consider it pulp. So there - all completely relative.

Although I have realized with great shock that my university library does feature the Twilight books (and also secondary literature about them) in their classical literature section now. Creepy, creepy. To me, Twilight is essentially just a story about a girl trying to get a boy and then giving everything up to stay with him - but hey, that might be just me. I would imagine the gender studies department to be all over it. And let's face it, Twilight did kind of revolutionize the way our culture views vampires (freaking glittering faces is all you seem to see anymore whenever there's a vampire).

[siles]

Well, if that's how you feel... then you've probably missed out on a lot of good stuff already. But what you don't know about, you can't miss right... or something like that.

Falcon, there's only so much fiction I can read, so of course I prefer to allocate my diminishing fanfiction reading time to a pairing that I already like.

[Kimberley Jackson]

That said, sometimes I feel a bit adventurous and read pairings/genres that I normally wouldn't. I do like to "broaden my horizons" from time to time.

By the way, before Stargate I was pretty much exclusively ship and slash gal. Stargate taught me to appreciate gen fic. Of course, there's not a lot of gen fic with plots that are genuinely gripping. Most gen fic I love to read is about friendships and family. I always prefer my fic plotty, but not at the expense of character development. Honestly, the reason I turn to fanfic is because I'm not satisified with the way the characters were treated in canon, and I want something else for them. Characters and their relationships (romantic and platonic) is what defines fanfic for me and why I love it so much.

Very well said, actually! On screen our perception of characters and their thoughts is very limited. Sometimes we get to see notions of their feelings in facial expressions or hallucinations (like for Sam Carter in 'Grace'), but most of the time we're stuck with the camera-eye perspective. Fiction in the sense of literature allows for authors and readers alike to delve deeper into the character, and go beyond that surface of emotions. It allows us to delve into what makes a character who s/he is. Granted, to a certain degree all fiction (even gen) has to delve into that process in order to portray characters and their actions in a way that does not seem OOC. But in romance or general character-focused fiction you have to do it on the page, and you have to convey those feelings over to the readers in a way that they can feel it too.

I love if stories (or authors) are able to do that. Now whether they do it successfully or not also largely depends on whether they perceive the character in the same way as you (as the reader) do. For example? I stay away from Sam/Jack wedding/children fics, simply to me it feels OOC that Sam would give up her career to marry O'Neill and have children with him. But that is only my perception of the Sam Carter character, and I know a lot of people view her differently. That's the beauty in fiction. The actual meaning of the story or character is not written in black and white on the page, but happens in the head of the readers.

[Raelis]

Valid question. I have read gen fiction occasionally, but I guess I am guilty of reading (and writing) mostly romance. Weirdly enough I am not at all into romance/drama shows though. Just romance is too boring for me. Just sci-fi without any character developments and relationships is too boring for me as well. I think it is the mix. And Stargate, if you ask me, always could have been a bit more generous with the romance stuff. I'm not saying pink wedding and rose petals - nope, not at all - just the hint of a happy ending for Sam and Jack for example. If they had given us that on the show, I probably wouldn't even read so much romance fanfiction. To me, I read fanfiction mostly to read about that stuff which I don't see on screen. Don't know if that makes any sense at all, but it's why I enjoy it.

You phrased it perfectly. I feel the same. Sci-fi is often guilty of sidelining its characters in favor of plot. In fanfiction the humanity of the characters is at the forefront. I get my sci-fi fix from the actual show, and I get my character development fix from fanfic. That's not to say that there's no character development in Stargate or other sci-fi shows/books/movies; of course, there is. But it is often kind of... sketchy. And many questions remain unanswered. And sometimes this development is nullified for some silly reason.

Romance is just one of the ways to explore the characters. Of course, the question is, why is romance so much more popular than friendship/family stories?


ETA: Just read your last post, Kimberley Jackson, and I agree completely! The beauty of fiction - of fanfiction specifically - is people's perceptions, interpretations. How many of them there are, how different they all are... and yet how valid most of them may seem to be. It is fascinating.

[Amara D'Angeli]

You phrased it perfectly. I feel the same. Sci-fi is often guilty of sidelining its characters in favor of plot. In fanfiction the humanity of the characters is at the forefront. I get my sci-fi fix from the actual show, and I get my character development fix from fanfic. That's not to say that there's no character development in Stargate or other sci-fi shows/books/movies; of course, there is. But it is often kind of... sketchy. And many questions remain unanswered. And sometimes this development is nullified for some silly reason.

Romance is just one of the ways to explore the characters. Of course, the question is, why is romance so much more popular than friendship/family stories?

I think that for many of us fanfiction is like fantasy fulfillment. And when it's apparent on a show (to some or to many) that there is chemistry between two characters I think it's natural to want to explore that.

[Raelis]

I think that for many of us fanfiction is like fantasy fulfillment. And when it's apparent on a show (to some or to many) that there is chemistry between two characters I think it's natural to want to explore that.

I think so too. It is just interesting to think about. What makes romantic chemistry so much more compelling than platonic chemistry? But this is probably not the question for this thread.

[Kimberley Jackson]

Romance is just one of the ways to explore the characters. Of course, the question is, why is romance so much more popular than friendship/family stories?

Well... because friendships are usually visible on screen. Stargate f.ex. depicts the friendship chemistry wonderfully. Just think of Jack and Daniel - best 1990s bromance right along with O'Brian/Dr. Bashir from Star Trek DS9.
But for example for a pairing like Sam/JAck I could not imagine friendship stories, simply because on screen they are set for romance. It is there - subtly and often not so subtly. The writers just didn't delve into it because their working relationship put restrictions on the way they could have explored the relationships and they didn't want to turn it into the "Sam and Jack show" - which is fancy talk for romance. 'And I agree. I think the show would have actually lost a lot, if they had let those two characters hit it off on screen (at least pre-season 9. After the end of season 8 was a perfect window to confirm them. Why they didn't will remain an eternal mystery to me).

And whether romance is more popular than friendship stories - I don't know if I would even make that claim. I know people who put more focus on those stories, so again, I think it depends on personal preference. In the case of Stargate though, my guess would be, that there is a womance (or at least UST) set out on screen that never gets resolved on screen. So viewers are left with a feeling of frustration almost - and turn to fanfiction.

[Seaboe Muffinchucker]

The problem is that when a show that is not about the romance (or, at least, not just about the romance) brings the romance forward, it too often takes over the show to the detriment of other aspects.

I can't use Moonlighting as an example (though it's been quoted to me as a prime example), because I never watched it. I did, however, watch and love Remington Steele, which had a similar problem. My BFF and I have discussed it. What we would have loved to see was the relationship developed while being kept secondary to the mysteries. Why does that so rarely happen? I haven't a clue. ETA: this means my wish-fulfillment for Stargate would be stories where the relationship between Jack and Sam is taken for granted. It's not the focus of the story--that's the Stargate and the team adventures--it's just there.

Seaboe

[Raelis]

Well... because friendships are usually visible on screen. Stargate f.ex. depicts the friendship chemistry wonderfully. Just think of Jack and Daniel - best 1990s bromance right along with O'Brian/Dr. Bashir from Star Trek DS9.
But for example for a pairing like Sam/JAck I could not imagine friendship stories, simply because on screen they are set for romance. It is there - subtly and often not so subtly. The writers just didn't delve into it because their working relationship put restrictions on the way they could have explored the relationships and they didn't want to turn it into the "Sam and Jack show" - which is fancy talk for romance. 'And I agree. I think the show would have actually lost a lot, if they had let those two characters hit it off on screen (at least pre-season 9. After the end of season 8 was a perfect window to confirm them. Why they didn't will remain an eternal mystery to me).

And whether romance is more popular than friendship stories - I don't know if I would even make that claim. I know people who put more focus on those stories, so again, I think it depends on personal preference. In the case of Stargate though, my guess would be, that there is a womance (or at least UST) set out on screen that never gets resolved on screen. So viewers are left with a feeling of frustration almost - and turn to fanfiction.

I didn't think of that, but that's because Stargate is a bit of an unusual experience for me - it's the first series I've seen that depicts friendships well. I think the bonds between the characters is the best thing about Stargate. Most of the other shows I watched seemed to prioritize romance over friendships, and yet fandom was always interested in more romance...

But I agree with you that it is often viewers' frustration at not getting what they want that makes them turn to fanfic. A lof of popular romance is for non-canon pairings (unexplored potential) or almost-canon pairings that were never confirmed (like S/J). It is certainly true for me. When I'm perfectly satisfied with canon (like, say, Farscape), I rarely feel the need to indulge in fanfic.

[Falcon Horus]

Vampires don't sparkle!

I had to say it...

it's different for a book because I don't know the characters yet, while in fics I do. So it's easier to choose what I know I will like and what I won't. Does it make any sense to anybody?

It does to me.

This comment and others give me the impression you'll pick up a book or story - any book or story - and give it a read.

I do... call me weird, but I do.

Do you not have personal preferences that color what you'll choose to read?

No, not really... I'll try just about everything I guess you could say. If the story's good enough for me to want to continue to read it all the way to the end, then the book stays. If it doesn't, the book goes away.

Same with music... I'll try just about everything. If I like it, it'll stay in the collection. If I don't, it'll get deleted again. Good thing iTunes lets you listen to the songs before you download.

Same with films...

[XFchemist]

But I agree with you that it is often viewers' frustration at not getting what they want that makes them turn to fanfic. A lof of popular romance is for non-canon pairings (unexplored potential) or almost-canon pairings that were never confirmed (like S/J). It is certainly true for me. When I'm perfectly satisfied with canon (like, say, Farscape), I rarely feel the need to indulge in fanfic.

I agree. I don't read fics for any other fandom

[Sealurk]

A personal peeve of mine is the mind-boggling ratio of ship-fic to gen-fic. I neither like nor dislike ship - it is just of no interest to me - and of course everybody reads and writes fanfiction for their own reasons, but boy do I find it frustrating trying to find and read something that focuses on something other than the relationship between a couple of characters!

[SF_and_Coffee]

Question: Do you only read 'ship, or do you read gen (non-ship) fanfic too? Because there is some fantastic gen fanfic, and I have to admit that I don't quite understand the mindset of people who will only read 'ship... like the only kind of story that's worth anything to them is a romance... which kind of makes me wonder how they became interested in science fiction in the first place, since as a genre it isn't particularly filled with romance literature or shows and I would think they'd have been more likely to just stick to romance novels, etc.

(Did that question make sense the way I put it?)

Valid question. I have read gen fiction occasionally, but I guess I am guilty of reading (and writing) mostly romance. Weirdly enough I am not at all into romance/drama shows though. Just romance is too boring for me. Just sci-fi without any character developments and relationships is too boring for me as well. I think it is the mix. And Stargate, if you ask me, always could have been a bit more generous with the romance stuff. I'm not saying pink wedding and rose petals - nope, not at all - just the hint of a happy ending for Sam and Jack for example. If they had given us that on the show, I probably wouldn't even read so much romance fanfiction. To me, I read fanfiction mostly to read about that stuff which I don't see on screen. Don't know if that makes any sense at all, but it's why I enjoy it.

Sure, it makes sense, and it's also why I read and write fanfiction. I just wasn't particularly interested in romantic elements in Stargate, but rather in overall character development and also in exploring its very rich universe even more deeply than the show ever did. This is why I chose to write the kind of fanfiction series I'm writing, because it explores these things through the eyes of someone who was a very minor character only used once on the show but who was at least potentially in a position to understand a lot about a very central character and also to learn a lot about the Gateverse through the lens of having almost no preconceptions about it. Along the way I get to develop him fully as a character and use him as a conduit to delve into the psyches of the canon "regulars". I even have romance in my stories... it just isn't between any of those main canon characters.

To say that, just because one is into sci-fi one shouldn't care about romance is drawing too strict a line, in my opinion.

It would be in mine too, which is why I did not say any such thing. What I said was that people who only enjoy romances strike me as unlikely to have been drawn to science fiction. I think that's what's had me scratching my head here... the idea of people who will ONLY read 'ship when it comes to fanfic, as though any other type of fic isn't worth their time. It made me wonder whether those readers exercise the same choice in reading original fiction -- that is, do they only read romances? And if so, how on earth did they come to ever watch Stargate in the first place? That has been the question in my mind.

I respect when people are not interested in romance at all - that's why the writers kept it out of the show, and that's why there's fanfiction.

I hope you didn't really mean to imply that romance is or should be the only reason for the existence of fanfiction. Fanfiction exists for the sake of exploring storylines left either unexplored or inadequately explored in canon. Not all of those storylines are romantic in nature. The writers left plenty to the imagination.

And I also respect when people are mostly into romance - although to my experience those people then hardly ever watche Stargate or Star Trek, but rather settle for Grey's Anatomy, Private Practice and the likes.

My point, made for me. Thank you.

[...]sometimes I feel a bit adventurous and read pairings/genres that I normally wouldn't. I do like to "broaden my horizons" from time to time.

By the way, before Stargate I was pretty much exclusively ship and slash gal. Stargate taught me to appreciate gen fic. Of course, there's not a lot of gen fic with plots that are genuinely gripping. Most gen fic I love to read is about friendships and family. I always prefer my fic plotty, but not at the expense of character development. Honestly, the reason I turn to fanfic is because I'm not satisified with the way the characters were treated in canon, and I want something else for them. Characters and their relationships (romantic and platonic) is what defines fanfic for me and why I love it so much.

I've bolded a bit of that because it is at the core of why I read and write fanfic myself. Character development is key for me, and the platonic, friendly, working relationships between the characters are what I love to focus on.

As a gen writer, I do have to say that I've felt a bit put out by the tone this thread has taken over the past couple of pages, as though 'ship fic were the ONLY fanfic in existence, or the only kind worth reading or writing, or worse yet, the only reason for fanfiction to exist at all. I bust my tail to craft professional-level, commercial-quality, not-entirely-derivative storylines within the Gateverse as I envision it (a very slight departure, barely AU at all except for the fact that I refuse to kill off someone the show's writers were content to dispatch)... but all I've heard lately is that my writing doesn't deserve to exist because it isn't ship.

That makes me sad.

ETA: I see that between the time I began writing this post and the time I submitted it, the tone lightened a bit toward gen fic, for which I am glad. Still, though, I do cringe each time I encounter talk of fanfic that automatically assumes there must be ship involved.