Fanfic Pet Peeves

[Womble]

Having thought a bit more of Womble's post, maybe you have a point. Maybe this is how I construct a story... but I think it has merit. This is fanfic I'm writing, not an episode of the show. I'm usually not after writing an exact copy of an episode - I'm after more of the filling the blanks bits, so to speak.

So yes, I probably am taking one idea and building a story around it - butt hat's becaue usually this is what I'm interested in exploring.

If that makes sense...

Everyone takes an idea and builds a plot around it; it's just not everyone takes a scene from the middle and builds a plot around it. It's not wrong and I am not saying it shouldn't be done; I just see it as making your own work more difficult.

Like I said before, I tend to use scenes like that as inciting incidents, the first scenes of the story from which everything else follows. I find I get plenty of good scenes by simply allowing the storylines to progress and converge at will (the element of surprise is an added bonus). Trying to use them as middle scenes in stories longer than 10-15 page one-shots led me into many a writer's block, and endings... well, let's just say that I rarely end up with the conclusion which I've originally had in mind. My usual pattern is starting off planning for a reasonably happy end and eventually discarding it in favor of a downer.

[Pitry]

Everyone takes an idea and builds a plot around it; it's just not everyone takes a scene from the middle and builds a plot around it. It's not wrong and I am not saying it shouldn't be done; I just see it as making your own work more difficult.

The funny thing is, it's more difficult for me to start at the beginning. Like you said, allowing the story to progress and not ending with the conclusion I originally had in mind... I used to write like that. And all these stories were abandoned half way through. If I don't know where I'm going, I never end up getting there. Doesn't matter if I write 100 words or 100,000.

But that might just be the weird way my brain's working

[RodneyIsGodney]

*fades in*

Oh boy, have I got pet peeves!

Spoiler:

Discaimer: I am in no way referencing specific stories/writers, merely pointing out errors that I see over and over again in fics.

Spoiler:

#1) Misspelled names. I simply cannot stand it when a character's name is misspelled, drives me crazy! Ronon not Ronan, Teyla not Tayla, Radek not Radik, etc... If you are a fan of the show and read SGA fanfic as well you should know how to spell their names.

#2) It's Zedpm when Rodney is speaking, remember he's canadian, he says zed. A lot of writers tend to forget. It irks me.

#3) Rodney is older than Jeannie, not younger.

#4) Lt. Col. John Sheppard is in the Airforce, not the Army.

#5) There is no Army presence on Atlantis. The military contingent consists mainly of Airforce and Marines. (tho many writers seem to forget about the airforce officers)

#6) A lot of writers get character discriptions wrong, i.e. eye color, hair, weight, etc...

#7) Beta's are very important! Some writers "claim" that their stories have been beta'd but they still contain mistakes, mistakes that I would not have missed if I were beta'ing a story for someone ...in this case I mean grammatical mistakes, not that my grammar is all that great but... Hey, who am I to talk? I beta'd my own story on FF.net so ...yeah, read it over and over and over and each time I read it I found something(s) to correct/change.

I too have many a fic that I have started with know idea how to finish them. I think my brain works like yours Pitry.

*fades out*

[hedwig]

*fades in*

Oh boy, have I got pet peeves!

Spoiler:

Discaimer: I am in no way referencing specific stories/writers, merely pointing out errors that I see over and over again in fics.

Spoiler:

#1) Misspelled names. I simply cannot stand it when a character's name is misspelled, drives me crazy! Ronon not Ronan, Teyla not Tayla, Radek not Radik, etc... If you are a fan of the show and read SGA fanfic as well you should know how to spell their names.

#2) It's Zedpm when Rodney is speaking, remember he's canadian, he says zed. A lot of writers tend to forget. It irks me.

#3) Rodney is older than Jeannie, not younger.

#4) Lt. Col. John Sheppard is in the Airforce, not the Army.

#5) There is no Army presence on Atlantis. The military contingent consists mainly of Airforce and Marines. (tho many writers seem to forget about the airforce officers)

#6) A lot of writers get character discriptions wrong, i.e. eye color, hair, weight, etc...

#7) Beta's are very important! Some writers "claim" that their stories have been beta'd but they still contain mistakes, mistakes that I would not have missed if I were beta'ing a story for someone ...in this case I mean grammatical mistakes, not that my grammar is all that great but... Hey, who am I to talk? I beta'd my own story on FF.net so ...yeah, read it over and over and over and each time I read it I found something(s) to correct/change.

I too have many a fic that I have started with know idea how to finish them. I think my brain works like yours Pitry.

*fades out*

Your pet peeves were interesting, and I particularly agree with the one about descriptions of characters. One of them being when a writer describes Sam as being petite, tiny and similiar descriptive terms. Sam is tall and slender, not petite. Janet is petite. Sam is also not tiny. Okay, that may be nitpicky, but I find myself getting a teeny bit annoyed when I read something like that.

Same thing when they describe Jack as being something so different in build and appearance that they have him looking like someone I wouldn't even recognize. And they change his character so much, he isn't even the same person as portrayed in the series. But I think this issue has been discussed before, so I won't continue with it.

Am also in agreement about the claim that the story has been reviewed by a beta. Reviewed maybe, but not corrected or edited in any way, given how many mistakes are found in stories that supposedly have been reviewed by a beta.

[Womble]

Am also in agreement about the claim that the story has been reviewed by a beta. Reviewed maybe, but not corrected or edited in any way, given how many mistakes are found in stories that supposedly have been reviewed by a beta.

Fishing out mistakes is a profession; a layman will never get them all. Betas themselves often have spelling, grammar or common sense issues, which limits their helpfulness. (Not that my current beta reader suffers from any of that, mind you; she is superb).

[hedwig]

Fishing out mistakes is a profession; a layman will never get them all. Betas themselves often have spelling, grammar or common sense issues, which limits their helpfulness. (Not that my current beta reader suffers from any of that, mind you; she is superb).

I agree that not all mistakes will be caught. I used to work in a profession that required lots of proofreading and I was really good at it, but I missed things at times, too. I was talking about stories where really, really obvious mistakes have been missed that even the best of proofreaders would likely not have missed. I think most stories are really well proofread. There are some, though, where I wonder if they were really proofread at all.

[iamdragonrider]

Hey, I can't tell you the number of times I find mistakes in published works by reputable publishers. Most novels contain at least a handful of missing, duplicate, misspelled, or incorrect words. I don't even know how many gramattical errors likely make thier way into print.

But there is a difference let's say in a work that has been "proof-read", regardless of whether it has been "beta-read" or not, versus one where no attempt or lack of knowledge causes the work to be completely un proofed, no matter how many folks read it before posting.

Oh, and I'll admit that I always had major difficulty in school in filling out outlines and such... and I freely admit that out of frustration due to the way my mind works, that often, I wrote what I wanted, and then went back and outlined the darn thing just to fulfill all the requirements of the paper.

I'm just not a linear thinker. Some people think A leads to B leads to C and some people just skip all that, and go right to Z.

I will admit that I'd probably have a heck of a lot less writer block if all my scenes came to me as I wrote a story, rather than some from the middle, and some from the end coming first, or sometimes the end of the story is what starts me on the story... Who know, but muse has a mind of her own. And I will never be published, so I figure I don't much need to worry about it.

[RodneyIsGodney]

I was horrible with outlines too!

Your pet peeves were interesting, and I particularly agree with the one about descriptions of characters. One of them being when a writer describes Sam as being petite, tiny and similiar descriptive terms. Sam is tall and slender, not petite. Janet is petite. Sam is also not tiny. Okay, that may be nitpicky, but I find myself getting a teeny bit annoyed when I read something like that.

Same thing when they describe Jack as being something so different in build and appearance that they have him looking like someone I wouldn't even recognize. And they change his character so much, he isn't even the same person as portrayed in the series. But I think this issue has been discussed before, so I won't continue with it.

Am also in agreement about the claim that the story has been reviewed by a beta. Reviewed maybe, but not corrected or edited in any way, given how many mistakes are found in stories that supposedly have been reviewed by a beta.

I've seen writers describe Rodney as fat ...he is not! and balding ...he is not! Receding hiarline but not balding. Also a lot of writers get eye color wrong too ...and I hate that! There is nothing that irks me more than a "fan" describing a character wrong! It just get's to me, ya know? Cuz, if they're a "fan" they should know what the characters look like.

Okay, I think I'm done.

[hedwig]

I was horrible with outlines too!



I've seen writers describe Rodney as fat ...he is not! and balding ...he is not! Receding hiarline but not balding. Also a lot of writers get eye color wrong too ...and I hate that! There is nothing that irks me more than a "fan" describing a character wrong! It just get's to me, ya know? Cuz, if they're a "fan" they should know what the characters look like.

Okay, I think I'm done.

That bothers me as well. Rodney could not be "fat" and go out on the physically strenuous missions (many times) that he goes on with the rest of the team. He has to be reasonably fit to go on those and not be a burden on the rest of the team.

The same thing goes for people describing Sam in many stories when she overworks herself, and the story talks about how unfit she is to go on missions because of that - not getting enough sleep, not eating properly, and how the rest of the team has to constantly bring her food or remind her to eat and sleep - she would not be allowed to go on missions if she were not fit to do so. I think I've read somewhere (and it may have even been commented on in an episode or two) how the team has to frequently meet fitness requirements in order to go on missions and stay on their teams. They wouldn't be allowed to if they weren't fit to do so.

[Crichiel]

The same thing goes for people describing Sam in many stories when she overworks herself, and the story talks about how unfit she is to go on missions because of that - not getting enough sleep, not eating properly, and how the rest of the team has to constantly bring her food or remind her to eat and sleep - she would not be allowed to go on missions if she were not fit to do so. I think I've read somewhere (and it may have even been commented on in an episode or two) how the team has to frequently meet fitness requirements in order to go on missions and stay on their teams. They wouldn't be allowed to if they weren't fit to do so.

That is hilarious, because that is EXACTLY what everyone writes about Daniel: he overworks himself, doesn't sleep or eat and has to be dragged to bed or the commissary by the others. I don't read J/S, so that means I don't read 99% of the Sam-centric fics. So I didn't realise people wrote the exact same personality quirks for her....funny, I have never read one that describes Jack or Teal'c like that!

My one quick comment for RodneyIsGodney (because we did just cover this a page or two ago): About the ZPM. You aren't supposed to write ZPM as ZedPM unless you were going to write out the pronunciation of each letter, in which case it would be ZedPeeEm. You write out the individual letters, and any reader of the fic that knows the show would have the Rodney in their head pronouncing it 'zed'.

[Petra]

Almost all of my fan fic peeves have been mentioned but I still have to get it off my chest so bear with me
1) I give a pass to all fics that don't have paragraphs - line after line even looks scary! I'm not a native English speaker myself (hard to notice, isn't it? ) so grammatical mistakes don't bother me that much - but I agree every fic should be betaed.
2) spelling. Everything mentioned earlier and lots more. what I can't understand at all is why so many people spell "Jonathan" - "Jonathon". Is it an alternate spelling or something? Because this one is so common that maybe it's correct and I don't know it?
3) Getting the facts wrong. Usually it's something small, like Hammond being Sam's godfather and her calling him "uncle" but it irks me. Just like this mythical age difference between Jack and Sam. As a shipper I read a lot of S/J stories in which he worries that he could be her father while, according to cannon, he's 11 years older than she is.
4) acting OOC. Reading such fics is pure torture. Teal'c doesn't exist, Daniel is innocent martyr, Jack's insensitive jerk who drinks just before/ on missions and Sam is cold-hearted b***(Jack/Daniel stories - supposedly gen) or whiny baby clinging to her man and constantly crying (Jack/Sam stories)
5) WIPs. It's soo annoying when you get into a story and suddenly it stops in the middle and you are left wondering what would happen and knowing you won't get a resoluton..

After years of putting up with it I finally limited my reading to just a few favourite authors and now I'm quite happy, knowing that the fics will be really good

[SGLAB]

and Sam is cold-hearted b***(Jack/Daniel stories - supposedly gen) or whiny baby clinging to her man and constantly crying (Jack/Sam stories)

snippage

In every fandom I've read fic in there's always been a main female character portrayed this way at some point. I recently started reading a fic where another character felt sorry for poor pathetic Sam because of her one sided crush she had for Jack who was probably in a relationship with Daniel although it wasn't a Jack/Daniel fic.

Weir gets treated pretty poorly in many John/Rodney fic whether it's gen or slash.

That is hilarious, because that is EXACTLY what everyone writes about Daniel: he overworks himself, doesn't sleep or eat and has to be dragged to bed or the commissary by the others. I don't read J/S, so that means I don't read 99% of the Sam-centric fics. So I didn't realise people wrote the exact same personality quirks for her....funny, I have never read one that describes Jack or Teal'c like that!

snippage

To the bolded part I see that a lot in SGA fic with Rodney. The guy who complains about hypogycemia and needs to eat.

[sbz]

Oh, and I'll admit that I always had major difficulty in school in filling out outlines and such... and I freely admit that out of frustration due to the way my mind works, that often, I wrote what I wanted, and then went back and outlined the darn thing just to fulfill all the requirements of the paper.

I did exactly the same thing! I'd sit there and think "you want me to tell you what the story's about before I've written it?" So I wrote it then scribbled out a passable outline. And hey, it worked!

The entire discussion about how people get their ideas and go about writing their fics is very interesting. I'm pretty linear - I have to be since I write and post as I go - though I tend to think it all through before I start so I know where I'm going. I also do what dragonrider mentioned. There are those awesome, "oh I want to write that!" scenes that you see coming and the anticipation of them always helps me push through any difficulty I might have with a current scene.

[sbz]

That is hilarious, because that is EXACTLY what everyone writes about Daniel: he overworks himself, doesn't sleep or eat and has to be dragged to bed or the commissary by the others. .

Yeah, where did this fanon thing about them being so absorbed in work come from? I don't think we've ever seen Daniel do that and Carter maybe once or twice when the world was in danger or someone on SG-1 was? The only example I can think of right now even remotely close is 100 Days, the scene between Carter and Janet. I think it was mentined she'd been working like crazy.

I don't read J/S, so that means I don't read 99% of the Sam-centric fics.

That makes me sad for some reason. There are good gen Carter fics out there with no relationship whatsoever or, God forbid, a relationship other than her and O'Neill.

I still can't fathom how the fandom got divided into these rigid camps of this kind of shipper versus that kind. It seems to be unique to Stargate, at least in my experience. And kinda ridiculous. But... whatever. It is what it is and certainly won't change now.

[hedwig]

Yeah, where did this fanon thing about them being so absorbed in work come from? I don't think we've ever seen Daniel do that and Carter maybe once or twice when the world was in danger or someone on SG-1 was? The only example I can think of right now even remotely close is 100 Days, the scene between Carter and Janet. I think it was mentined she'd been working like crazy.

The "100 Days" episode is a good example of Sam working really hard. There were other episodes that implied she preferred to work than do other things, because it brings her so much enjoyment and she loves doing what she's doing. I think that got taken to an extreme in stories so that it was suggested she overworked herself, didn't eat right, didn't sleep enough, etc. She also gets very excited about technology, and especially alien technology, plus she's always being called upon to fix things at the SGC, even if there are other people qualified to do so. People always seem to turn to her to solve problems and find solutions to everything that needs solving around the SGC. Demands seem to frequently be made on her time in many episodes. So again apparently authors have taken this to mean she always works too hard, doesn't sleep or eat right, etc., and therefore her teammates have to drag her out of her lab or Jack has to literally order her out of her lab to do other things. Also in "Ascension" he as much as tells her she's entirely too intense about her work and needs to lighten up. There's even been some fanfiction where Jack or Hammond have resorted to locking her out of her lab in order to get her to take some time off or stop working for a few days and get off the base, though I don't recall this kind of thing happening in any episode.

So, ... where was I going with this??? Oh, yeah, your comment about "where did this fanon thing come from", etc. There's probably a bunch more examples, but what I said pretty much describes where people get the idea she works too hard. The "100 Days" example was an extreme example, since she literally built something that didn't exist in order to get Jack back from Edora, and she barely slept or ate (apparently) the whole 100 days while doing so.

The same thing is apparently said about Daniel working too hard, not getting enough rest, not eating right, drinking too much coffee while getting buried in his research and forgetting about the time, and having to be dragged out of his lab.

As someone else commented, this is never said about Jack or Teal'c. They know better, and Jack does go fishing every so often, so he gets entirely away from the SGC, and apparently Teal'c gets to go back to Chulak or wherever his son is to visit him occasionally. Plus, he's getting to get out of the SGC and learn about earth and so forth, so he takes time off to. But then, he really doesn't have that much else to do except be a warrior and go off on missions with SG1.

I know nothing about fanfiction on other series or programs, since Stargate is the first and only one I've ever gotten into. And I chuckled over your comment about how the "rigid camps", and have to agree they are really rigid. I've read some really nasty and unkind things from one camp about another, and have to wonder about it myself.