Fanfic Pet Peeves

[Aragon101]

Something I ran across today though I don't come across often is when a fic writer says the fic may or may not have a certain ship pairing eventually in the fic. FCOL, if you don't know who your ship pairs are going to be before you start posting a fic don't post it until you know.

This is more an issue of poor planning and WIP i'd wager. If it's a very long series, then i can actually understand. But when it's a shorter fic (say under 100k words) then hells yeah. You SHOULD know beforehand

[siles]

This is more an issue of poor planning and WIP i'd wager. If it's a very long series, then i can actually understand. But when it's a shorter fic (say under 100k words) then hells yeah. You SHOULD know beforehand

Even if you don't know who your pairings would be in the end, I think it's only right to put them in the disclaimer or author notes once the fic is complete

[sbz]

I'm almost certain I'm in the minority and that what I'm about to post will be unpopular, but here it goes.

As a writer I don't see how it's my responsibility to warn readers about every innocent development, nuance, or aspect of a story that some readers may not like. Graphic sex, violence, rape, etc, are one thing because it's about age appropriateness and some people have sensitivites. But a pairing? Really? Give me a break.

Maybe it's because I fundamentally don't understand "ship wars" or some people's pathological need to know about relationships, but I don't get it. If you run into a fic that has a pairing you don't care for and for whatever reason simply can't abide, stop reading. It's as simple as that. It's not like your eyes will start bleeding and your brain will dribble out your ears because you read something you didn't like. You just move on, no harm, no foul. You don't know going into a book, movie, or TV show what characters might get together.

If I start giving a warning for a pairing, what's next? Do I need to give a warning about interracial pairings, because some people still don't like that. Do I need to give a warning if a character is religious, cause some people don't like that. Do I need to give a warning about gay characters, and <gasp> a homosexual relationship? Where do you draw the line? I know where I draw it - I warn for issues of age appropriateness and things people have genuine sensitivites about (ie, people who've been assualted may rightly not want to read about it, people who've been tortured, etc). That's it.

I didn't label my series because
1) I had no plans for any relationships at the beginning
2) After a relationship did develop I couldn't be bothered to go back, update, reupload, and do whatever else it would take to label all the fics. Depending what archives the fic is on and the system it could amount to a lot of work
3) I don't feel like I am, or even should be, a gatekeeper who ensures that sub-groups within fandom don't encounter something they don't like

Consumers of entertainment always take a chance when they read/watch something that it might contain material they don't like. Minimal warnings about language, violence, and sex are all you ever see (and none for books). For me, fic isn't any different.

[Aragon101]

I'm almost certain I'm in the minority and that what I'm about to post will be unpopular, but here it goes.

As a writer I don't see how it's my responsibility to warn readers about every innocent development, nuance, or aspect of a story that some readers may not like. Graphic sex, violence, rape, etc, are one thing because it's about age appropriateness and some people have sensitivites. But a pairing? Really? Give me a break.

Maybe it's because I fundamentally don't understand "ship wars" or some people's pathological need to know about relationships, but I don't get it. If you run into a fic that has a pairing you don't care for and for whatever reason simply can't abide, stop reading. It's as simple as that. It's not like your eyes will start bleeding and your brain will dribble out your ears because you read something you didn't like. You just move on, no harm, no foul. You don't know going into a book, movie, or TV show what characters might get together.

If I start giving a warning for a pairing, what's next? Do I need to give a warning about interracial pairings, because some people still don't like that. Do I need to give a warning if a character is religious, cause some people don't like that. Do I need to give a warning about gay characters, and <gasp> a homosexual relationship? Where do you draw the line? I know where I draw it - I warn for issues of age appropriateness and things people have genuine sensitivites about (ie, people who've been assualted may rightly not want to read about it, people who've been tortured, etc). That's it.

I didn't label my series because
1) I had no plans for any relationships at the beginning
2) After a relationship did develop I couldn't be bothered to go back, update, reupload, and do whatever else it would take to label all the fics. Depending what archives the fic is on and the system it could amount to a lot of work
3) I don't feel like I am, or even should be, a gatekeeper who ensures that sub-groups within fandom don't encounter something they don't like

Consumers of entertainment always take a chance when they read/watch something that it might contain material they don't like. Minimal warnings about language, violence, and sex are all you ever see (and none for books). For me, fic isn't any different.

I agree with the concept you've got, but when it comes to fanfic there's one important difference.

These are established characters whom we've seen in another medium.

I'll use myself as an example. I love Gen fic that has no pairings, and i'll read just about any pairing as long as it's done well (as in the characters get together in what i feel is a believable progression, no sudden changes of heart.)

Take Sam for instance. I hate the fics that have her suddenly become attracted to some other guy without any buildup despite the show's message that she's attracted to Jack. Same goes with Jack being an ass to Sam. I never saw anything like that. It's a matter of characterization that matches what we've seen in the show.

Most fics don't do that. "The Way" pretty much changes Sam and Teal'c and Ba'al in ways the show never did. That's why i have no issue and even like how that progressed. I don't expect a warning at the beginning because it was a natural progression of your story.

I did the same in my own series (at least i think so) with Sam and Shep. Circumstances led to them having to bond and support each other in dire circumstances, and they butted heads, and Sam even kicked Sheppard's ass at one point. They had plenty of interaction and it grew, it didn't just happen. They technically never even began a true relationship until 350k words into the story and over a year in the time of the fic because of the hangups and issues the circumstances involved left them with that htey had to work out. Do i have a warning at the beginning? Sorta. I put "Rare Pairings" but don't specify who. Then again i knew right from the start because the story was actually a rewrite/expansion of a one-shot i had written.

The reason people get angry when they don't get a warning can be something like with what happened with me and Akamaimom's Wizard of Mazd. it's a fun story, a rewrite of Wizard of Oz. I totally loved it because it was so teamy up until there were specific mentions of Sam/Jack (which if i haven't made it clear enough, i'm not a fan of) Even more, the characters don't really undergo the same change that makes it possible and believable for them to get together (this is of course, my opinion). So i stopped reading, but from what i'd read, i was pissed that it was more difficult for me to enjoy the remainder of the story (especially because the ship had become integral to the plot somewhat).

I did eventually finish reading, but it was kinda like a slightly overripe pineapple to me. I liked it, but it left a taste in my mouth

So i'd say it's more about how long the fic is supposed to be and how much actual story is going to take place as to whether add warnings or not. I'm writing a VS, and i can't say for sure if i'll write a homosexual relationship in the future, so i haven't put that warning. Could still happen, could not, so how can i warn for something that i'm not sure on?

Any warnings i put are usually similar to TV, Violence, language, sex, and mature content. Other than that, if its a shorter fic then yeah i'll warn pairing, but at the same time, if it's a longer fic with lots of time and the characters change over it, i don't see the need and hence, agree with you.

[sbz]

I agree with the concept you've got, but when it comes to fanfic there's one important difference.

These are established characters whom we've seen in another medium.

Going on this, though, the idea that people suddenly can't handle a change in the situation of established characters. It doesn't quite fly for me. There are tons movies, books, etc out there that are a series. Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, The Sword of Truth novels. They hardly put a warning at the beginning of the next novel or movie telling fans that character x and y will be getting together (or that any other objectionable [to some people] event will happen). I don't really see how fic is different. If people can follow a book series and accept developments, or simply move on if they don't like them, why can't they do the same for fic?

I do agree with your point about fics that develop a relationship compared to ones that slap two characters together for no rhyme or reason. There's a definite distinction there (I don't personally like any fic that slaps two people together without development/reason/motivation etc but that's simply from a storytelling standpoint and has nothing to do with the pairing; I'll read pretty much anything if the story is good and the ship [if a relationship is central] progresses, rather than simply materializing).

If I was the kind of writer who put out little one shots of people bantering (or whatever characters do in one shots), I might very well label the pairing if it was my intent from the outset to explore these characters as a couple. But that's not what I write; I write long, plotty, complicated, intertwined stories that focus on character and character development, but not romance. That's another reason I hardly think my series warrants a pairing warning - it's about the characters as people who live and survive together, not about who the characters are sleeping with. It couldn't be less about romance.

[jmoz]

Well fanfics are derivatives of the original fics and some intended pairings by the original authors of the fics. Most of the time, I see some pairings more as that author's personal preference of hookup, and they usually put themselves in the fics and the relationships in some form or another. I prefer what you said sort of, where the romance is in the background of the story. But sometimes it's relevant so that's ok too. Depends on the work I guess.

[Skydiver]

To me, the only warnings that are mandatory are torture, death, rape, non-con, language, etc....the biggies.

as to a pairing changing over a long fic....i'm of two minds. I didn't mind SBZ's fic, cause I like the pairing of sam and teal'c and then when it morphed into ba'al, i didn't mind it...cause by then sam had been so changed and altered that it didn't seem strange.

That said, i have seen some longer fic that - as a pairing develop - put into the disclaimer for the parts where it begins 'here's the pairing'....so as people read, they can know and there's no need to go back and reupload things.

On the other hand, I also had feedback from a person as i did my Evolution series....'you need to tell me if this ends sam and jack, cause if it doesn't i'm not wasting my time on it'...it was going to end sam and jack. That's what it was, the evolution of hte relationship...but i felt declaring in part 3 how it was gonna end in part 7 was kinda cheating.

they also said 'and don't tell me to read and find out....' so i didn't. I just said 'i'm not ruining it, read or don't read as you wish' and moved on.

I do think, for relationships, if it's built, it's one thing, if it's out of left field, it's another...but we got writers that don't know the difference and think that 3 pages is enough to build a relationship

[Tittamiire]

Lots of valid points.

I tend to label the relationships in my fics, not to 'warn' people, but because it's almost a category in it's own right, especially it they're fics based around an established relationship rather than the development of a relationship (sometimes development fics are fun, some times it's fun to just start with 'so they're together and then this happens'). Also, my fics with relationships in are almost always aimed at those who specifically want to read those fics. Sam/Janet fics on Area 52 etc need to be labelled as that because if that's what people are on there for they need to be able to find them.

Having said that I have written a couple of fics where, while I still labelled the relationship, the story wasn't about the relationship at all. The pairings were almost incidental so it seemed silly to warn for a relationship that featured so little. So yeah....I can see it from both sides of labelling for pairings or not.

I also don't get the ship wars and people only wanting to read a story if they know how the relationship ends...it just seems a bit...daft for anyone to get their knickers in such a twist over it.

[puddlejumperOZ]

From a technophile on writing stories, though I and many will understand what I may ramble on about, many don't so with tech stuff I adhere to the KISS principle. Makes it far easier to write anyway

[Aragon101]

As many know, i'm quite against Sam/Jack romance. If i'm reading a gen fic and i see plenty of friendship that develops into a romance in the fic itself, i've really not no issues other than the squick factor. I like to know if it's going to be Sam/Jack because then i can ask myself. "Is this story good enough, compelling enough for me to simply ignore the shippy parts?"

SlurredSpeech once gave me a link to a fic that had to do with the Ori invading Earth and Sam's role in the ensuing chaos. There were some adult moments, but she properly warned me of a slash scene. I easily skipped it and the rest of the story was good enough that i can say i enjoyed it.

There's a Sam/Shep fic out there that ends up Shep/McKay Slash, but the first 3/4 is Sam/Shep friendship. It was built brilliantly i might add, It had Shep and Sam meeting at the Academy, and slowly building a friendship since Sam's still very very aggressive back then and Shep is as always cool as a cucumber. Their personalities shine through very well, and it doesn't just jump to a romance, you see them over the course of time skip as their friendship builds. In the end when you pretty much expect them to get together, it played on the Shep being gay and hiding it card. But that didn't diminish the friendship parts which were very very good.

Neither of those two fics were over 10k words, so a warning was very useful. But something novel length, let's say 60k words, that's an investment of time and energy. I expect the romance angle if there is one to be built properly instead of just coming out of left field. I'm sick and tired of any pairing, not just sam/jack getting suddenly bumrushed into place in a longer fic. Let it build FFS.

I'd say that from a drabble to a 60kword story, i'd like a warning since i can read that in a day if i really invest time in it, and the writer really should know if they're going to introduce it. I've done this before and been burned quite a few times on SG1 fics that were supposedly Gen, same with SGA though i'm less bitter about those

Over 60k, and i'm talking 100k+, i don't think a warning is needed. It's a much larger story in scope and should be building all aspects of the story equally. If i set about to read something like that, it's got to be good, and i'll know that way before i get to say 30k words.

Then again, to play devil's advocate, this IS fanfic. It's wish fulfillment for a lot of people. Alot of people wanted to see certain pairings get 'confirmed' and it never happened. I don't blame them for wanting some kind of closure. Personally i'm equally as frustrated at TPTB for not closing many of those threads when they had the chance and now it may be too late, or if they do, it'll feel horribly trite. I'm also quite annoyed with them for other factors which lead me and others like me to write alternate scenarios.

I keep bringing up Sam/Shep as an example (this may just be a ploy to subconsciously implant in you the desire to read Sam/Shep fics) of a type of wishfulfillment. Personally i loved their friendship in Season 4 and was perfectly fine not seeing them in a relationship. but i saw potential in it and after some thought on it, really liked it. So that's why i write it, because I like it. I've written gen stories that have a leaning towards them, and i'll just say something like Sam/Shep friendship because i know it's not everyone's taste. but my series? Nah, even though i knew it was going to happen, all i did was warn "rare pairings" and let the reader decide for themselves whether it works or not. given that i've written 10 novels worth of story, i don't feel the need to warn for every little bit that might offend someone's nature beyond a "Mature Content". That's the point of maturity isn't it? to choose for one's self whether to read on or not?

So it remains for me that the biggies are the things to warn about. The kinds of things you see on TV warnings with one or two additions.

Language, Level of Violence, Type of Violence, Mature Content, Slash... those are really the ones i'd want to know. Language not even so much since i'm used to some pretty harsh dialects

About the tech, i don't mind it, but then again i understand it. It's really not the most important thing IMO and it's mostly just that extra touch of flavor you can add to a story, sort of like putting oregano into tomato sauce. Focusing too much on it takes away from the characters and plot and generally feels like you're reading a tech manual instead of a story with a plot and adventure aspect. If it can be put forward in a character dynamic way, such as Sam explaining to Jack why potato chips technically have less calories than Doritos, then it can fly by and the reader doesn't even realize they've just learned something.

A few fics are very guilty of putting too much emphasis on tech, thankfully no one's here, but i'll never forget the "1 million+ drones" that an "Upgraded" Daedalus class had in a 40 meter cube that had been attached to the ship. I kid you not.

ugh, this turned into an essay. I need a coke

[puddlejumperOZ]

^^^ I hope that's coke-a-cola

I just started and stopped reading a fic, no warnings on it whatsoever, that had a Jack/Daniel slash. It was billed as a drama/ action. The action yeah...Jack/Daniel ....so sick. Read two pages and reported it to FF.net.

[Aragon101]

^^^ I hope that's coke-a-cola

I just started and stopped reading a fic, no warnings on it whatsoever, that had a Jack/Daniel slash. It was billed as a drama/ action. The action yeah...Jack/Daniel ....so sick. Read two pages and reported it to FF.net.

Shrug, i don't see the need to report it. I'm not a fan of slash either but there are those that do. If you don't like it, don't read, as you've done, but live and let live.

That being said yeah, it's jarring when you start reading and all of a sudden there's a trapeze act in teh works This is the sort of thing that a warning is needed for, to let those who don't like that sort of thing to avoid, but those that do know that it's there.

[sbz]

I just started and stopped reading a fic, no warnings on it whatsoever, that had a Jack/Daniel slash. It was billed as a drama/ action. The action yeah...Jack/Daniel ....so sick. Read two pages and reported it to FF.net.

I have to say that I strongly object to that description. You may not like slash but nothing about it is inherently "sick." Honestly, it makes you sound homophobic.

[Aragon101]

I have to say that I strongly object to that description. You may not like slash but nothing about it is inherently "sick." Honestly, it makes you sound homophobic.

Hmmm i'll be the mediator here. Let's change the subject before it goes to it's inevitable end.

So SBZ, buy anything cool for the summer?

[Skydiver]

Some may find slash fic 'sick', but I can guarantee you that plenty of slash fans find het just as 'sick'.

One person's opinion is not fact for the whole world.

This is an argument to have a pairing warning in a fic header...those that don't like a 'sick' pairing can move onto something they like better.

I have multi part fic (now from my pov, i don't post wip's, so a fic is done before i post it...that said i've written series where the whole series is 7 separate and stand alone fic, and i may not have the 7th done before i post the 2nd) where parts 1-6 are gen, perhaps with ship leanings or indications, but not outright declared 'in wuv forever' pairings., but then part 7 things - and people - come together and blammo, it's a ship fic.

A person can't always control where the characters go or what they do. It sounds odd, but they do have a habit of going off on their own sometimes.

i do think that pairings should be listed.....but I can also see this rule of thumb.....if you take the pairing out of the fic, is there still a fic left? is the ship stuff 3 paragraphs out of 9 pages??? is it the driving force for the story? or is it all smut all the time? or is the relationship the only main plot???

answer those and you'll see if the pairing should be warned or not. If the ship stuff is a tiny part and the story exists without it....i wouldn't lose sleep over declaring it. but if the relationship IS the story....warn for it.