Fanfic Pet Peeves

[sbz]

you know, it sets a scene. Just by reading that I got a mental image of Daniel finding something cool,t he others are tired or frustrated or ready to go home and daniel doesn't stand a chance in hell of exploring whatever he sees. Jack is rolling his eyes, sam is gritting her teeth and contemplating leaving them behind, teal'c's grip on his staff weapon is tightening as he contains his frustration with the foolish humans as they all four stand there, probably with the gate in the distance and something cool in the other direction.

so yeah,t he stuff can be over used, but it can also set a tone and mood in a few words that would otherwise take a paragraph to set up

I'd say that comes back to balance, though. Deft word choice to paint the kind of scene you describe without it dragging on and getting boring. Then perhaps using one of those alternatives to said to establish a character's mood.

For me, hanging the whole story on the attributives always seems... hmm, lazy (in addition to being highly distracting and sometimes eye roll worthy)? I would much rather read and write about the characters and figure out their mood etc by what they're saying, how they're standing and moving, rather than having the writer tell me that so and so is mad, or enthused, or muttering, etc.

It all comes back to show, don't tell. Attributives like the examples in this thread are the writer telling us something that could be better communicated by showing it.

A lot of the time I think writers fall into this trap because of inexperience and insecurity. The perspective of the writer is very different than the perspective of the reader. When you're typing something out all the "said" does start sounding repetative/boring to you so it's hard to imagine that the readers won't notice it. But they don't and in time most writers will (hopefully) learn that.

At the very least the proof is on all our bookshelves. Pick up a book, any book. You'll see said (or nothing) and little else.

[Guest]

I'd say that comes back to balance, though. Deft word choice to paint the kind of scene you describe without it dragging on and getting boring. Then perhaps using one of those alternatives to said to establish a character's mood.

For me, hanging the whole story on the attributives always seems... hmm, lazy (in addition to being highly distracting and sometimes eye roll worthy)? I would much rather read and write about the characters and figure out their mood etc by what they're saying, how they're standing and moving, rather than having the writer tell me that so and so is mad, or enthused, or muttering, etc.

It all comes back to show, don't tell. Attributives like the examples in this thread are the writer telling us something that could be better communicated by showing it.

A lot of the time I think writers fall into this trap because of inexperience and insecurity. The perspective of the writer is very different than the perspective of the reader. When you're typing something out all the "said" does start sounding repetative/boring to you so it's hard to imagine that the readers won't notice it. But they don't and in time most writers will (hopefully) learn that.

At the very least the proof is on all our bookshelves. Pick up a book, any book. You'll see said (or nothing) and little else.

I'll admit i suffer from this... i just never liked "Said" from the get go and either say nothing at all, describe the person's actions, or use "muttered" or some other slightly tonally descriptive word. (I won't take it to extreme though)

Just the way i learned, and i'm trying to unlearn it but argh

on a new note, GIANT PARAGRAPHS.

OMG, i can't stand them. Like... a paragraph that's half a page grates on me like nothing else.

[slurredspeech]

Well said! It's one of the reasons I try not to be too hard on writers when I review. Everyone is still growing and writing takes practice. There have actually been studies to suggest that mistakes are an important part of the learning process. I've seen it with academic writers, but it also applies to creative writing. Sometimes when a writer makes mistakes, it's because they are trying to do something that is new and challenging for them. Maybe it's a new style they've never tried before, or a different way of handling characters, themes, or imagery. Either way, this is actually a good thing. It will teach them lessons that they can apply in their later writing. It might make for an awkward sounding story or two (or 12 ), but it's an important part of the writing process.

You are too kind.

It's the same as anything, really. The more you do something, the better you get. No one will get it justright the first xy number of times. There's a reason most writers will prefer their more recent work to something they've written in their beginnings. Also, in fanfiction, the fifth story for a particular fandom will most likely be better than the first. The trick is to read read read and write write write.

That doesn't mean that reviewers shouldn't offer constructive criticism, because they should (in a nice way).

I have to admit I belong to that unconstructive majority that doesn't say anything if they don't like the fic. Well, in cases where I don't know the author. It's tricky business. People are very very protective when it comes to their work, and even the most nicely worded concrit can lead to hurt feelings if the writer is less experienced, young, or new to posting fic.

This is why good betas are so.very.important. Not only will they correct the more banal grammar/spelling mistakes, but they can also provide a solid concrit concerning the story. Then it's up to the writer to take it or leave it.

It's fine for us to discuss writing problems, issues, and peeves in this thread (I always find these discussions quite educational ).

I enjoy reading peeves threads in fandoms, even - or especially? - if I recognize some I was or am guilty of. Besides. As readers, people will want to simply let off some steam in the ZOMG YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG way. That's why I wrote that bit. As a little disclaimer that ZOMG I'M KNOWN TO DO IT WRONG TOO.

although, i woulda used 'jack moaned'

Hee! I see now that I've mixed up my Jack and Sam there. I was typing up something else at the time, and I fail at multitasking. Is Jack even able to expostulate anything?

on a new note, GIANT PARAGRAPHS.

OMG, i can't stand them. Like... a paragraph that's half a page grates on me like nothing else.

I've encountered entire one-shots written as one giant paragraph. Nothing will make me hit the back button faster.

[sbz]

on a new note, GIANT PARAGRAPHS.

OMG, i can't stand them. Like... a paragraph that's half a page grates on me like nothing else.

Emphatic agreement.

My eyes, they bleed from trying to track huge blocks of text. Fics where I must resort to hilighting the text with my mouse just to keep my place are mostly not worth the trouble.

[Skydiver]

a paragraph should never be more than 3-5 sentences long

if it is, find a place to break it up

another peeve

folks, when you put your fic up on your website, please don't use these tiny ass fonts. fonts on your web site should NEVER be smaller than 10 points....a 12-14 is preferable.

there have been fic i'd love to read, but the font on the site or LJ page is so freaking tiny that i just give up squinting and move on

[Khentkawes]

a paragraph should never be more than 3-5 sentences long

I vehemently disagree with that statement... but such is to be expected, since I study Victorian literature.

I will say this... if all of the paragraphs are absurdly long, then that's a problem. But by the same token, if all of your paragraphs are only two or three lines of text, that's also a problem. Paragraph length should depend solely on content, not on any arbitrary rules of paragraph length.

there have been fic i'd love to read, but the font on the site or LJ page is so freaking tiny that i just give up squinting and move on

Agreed! I actually resort to using the "zoom" feature on my browser for a large number of LJ pages. Why, when you have the option to change it, would you leave the font so small?

[Skydiver]

true, not all paragraphs need to be short. but if every single one of them is half of an 8x11 page long, it's hard to read

as to font size, sometimes you can zoom in, sometimes it doesn't work...but really, nothing on a web page - short of those little disclaimer thingies on the bottom - should be less than a 10 point font

When you make a web page, you can't cater to every single person, but you should at least TRY to accommodate as many as possible

[slurredspeech]

The thing I've put up for discussion not so long ago on LJ, and would love to hear your input on... titles.

This discussion was started because I went browsing through the archive where, unlike on LJ and most sites really, one had nothing to go on but titles (and authors, but then - as much as that and pairing is usually my indicator of choice - most of the authors were unfamiliar to me). So. No summary, no nothing prior to actually opening the fic itself.

I must admit I am very unlikely to click on the fic entitled Love in the First Degree. Or I'll Go Anywhere For You (or any of the Backstreet Boys lyrics serving as title, to be honest). I can pretty much guarantee I won't like the fic named Soulmates 4ever (I kid thee not).

So, yeah. What's your stance on them? I have to say, titles are to me what sex scenes are to -- Sky, was it? Certainly don't come naturally, and I'll often ponder them before posting. Still. I'm thinking... You invested so much time and energy into writing this. C'mon. Give it more thought than that. Y/N?

(Me, I'll usually use what I think is a clever [pop]culture reference, or a poignant lyric that will often have little to do with the fic but sounds good. Like, say, Marching Bands of Manhattan, or something similarly vague that I've used in the past. Then again, I post all my fics on LJ - personal or comms - so I rely on (concise though they might be) summaries more.)

Speaking of summaries. The conseequenses. Their grave. How will they cope??????...?????... is bad. It just is.

[Skydiver]

to me a title should sum up the fic in a few words...tell you something about it.

Freedom from the Past
Trinkets
Evolution

etc....just a couple of mine that i pulled off the top of my head. 'freedom' tells about teal'c - and sam - confronting something in thier past and dealing with it

trinkets - a series of fic where sam and jack exchange trinkets
evolution - a series telling the evolution of sam and jack's relationship

for me, when i make up a title, it has to sum up the fic in some way. quite often, it's a word/theme from the fic.

I thin the lamest title I ever came up with was A is for Assassin...and i thought and thought and thought for that fic for 2 weeks and simply could not come up with anything else.

to me, giving a fic a title is like naming a pet (or to be really dramatic, a child), it needs to sum up its personality in just a word or three

[Guest]

The thing I've put up for discussion not so long ago on LJ, and would love to hear your input on... titles.

This discussion was started because I went browsing through the archive where, unlike on LJ and most sites really, one had nothing to go on but titles (and authors, but then - as much as that and pairing is usually my indicator of choice - most of the authors were unfamiliar to me). So. No summary, no nothing prior to actually opening the fic itself.

I must admit I am very unlikely to click on the fic entitled Love in the First Degree. Or I'll Go Anywhere For You (or any of the Backstreet Boys lyrics serving as title, to be honest). I can pretty much guarantee I won't like the fic named Soulmates 4ever (I kid thee not).

So, yeah. What's your stance on them? I have to say, titles are to me what sex scenes are to -- Sky, was it? Certainly don't come naturally, and I'll often ponder them before posting. Still. I'm thinking... You invested so much time and energy into writing this. C'mon. Give it more thought than that. Y/N?

(Me, I'll usually use what I think is a clever [pop]culture reference, or a poignant lyric that will often have little to do with the fic but sounds good. Like, say, Marching Bands of Manhattan, or something similarly vague that I've used in the past. Then again, I post all my fics on LJ - personal or comms - so I rely on (concise though they might be) summaries more.)

Speaking of summaries. The conseequenses. Their grave. How will they cope??????...?????... is bad. It just is.

I post most of my stuff on FF.net, or places where a summary is more than capable of explaining the story. But every so often i delve into LJ to find stuff and yes... the lyric titles can be very telling.

Especially when it's something like "Lemonade Sheppard" (Take a guess what THAT one was about)

So on that aspect, Totally agree with you.

Usually i'll try and come up with some clever twist on a phrase for my stories. Like right now, i'm curretnly working on a SG1 fic that involves PMC's and SG1 being their target. The title? "Occupational Hazard."

On the paragraphs, i prefer shorter paragraphs unless it's more detail on a single subject, or a monologue. but when it's long paragraph after long paragraph my eyes begin to twitch and i feel that rush of wishing i could reach into teh screen and strangle someone

on the fonts, If it's small and i can't zoom in, Copy paste into word, Web view, zoom in to my heart's content (of course it's MUCH nicer when i DON'T have to do that)

[slurredspeech]

to me a title should sum up the fic in a few words...tell you something about it.

Freedom from the Past
Trinkets
Evolution

etc....just a couple of mine that i pulled off the top of my head.

....


to me, giving a fic a title is like naming a pet (or to be really dramatic, a child), it needs to sum up its personality in just a word or three

See, yeah, I get that. And I often go between that and the stance that says titles are there to tickle the fancy, sparkle the interest of the reader, intrigue them. Whereas summaries then sum up what a reader should expect.

I'll always go between pretty banal and pretty obscure but, hey, sounds good! Gah. IDEK. Just... cheesy love songs? Don't do it for me.

[sbz]

The thing I've put up for discussion not so long ago on LJ, and would love to hear your input on... titles.

I wrestle with titles all the time, except for those rare occasions when they come in this flash of inspiration and are just so right. But on the whole I find the concept and challenge of creating them vaguely terrifying (and that's the main reason why I don't title individual chapters - anxiety attack waiting to happen - and I have a healthy respect for people who do).

A bad title can and will turn people off faster than anything. Things that sound corny or teen angst movie of the week send me packing without a moment's hesitation. The sort of sad thing is, just because someone doesn't come up with a brilliant title doesn't mean they can't write and don't have an awesome story to tell. I've read some amazing fics (mostly Farscape) with truly horrid titles that I gave a chance only because I knew the writer or they were rec'd by prolific members of fandom with impeccable taste.

A good title, on the other hand, can tickle a reader's fancy, draw them in, and pique their interest. The title is, presumably, the first thing a potential reader sees before even the summary and it's your first chance to win them as a reader. The best titles rope people in so thoroughly you just have to read to find out what it means, or where it came from, or how it relates.

[Infinite-Possibilities]

I once began writing a fanfic (it was for World of Warcraft actually) and eventually decided on one that seemed to fit fine, but felt like it could have been better. I just couldn't think of something that was more right for the story.

A significant time later, long after I had given up on the story I think, a title came to me that was just absolutely almost a perfect one.

[Rachel500]

The thing I've put up for discussion not so long ago on LJ, and would love to hear your input on... titles.

This discussion was started because I went browsing through the archive where, unlike on LJ and most sites really, one had nothing to go on but titles (and authors, but then - as much as that and pairing is usually my indicator of choice - most of the authors were unfamiliar to me). So. No summary, no nothing prior to actually opening the fic itself.

I must admit I am very unlikely to click on the fic entitled Love in the First Degree. Or I'll Go Anywhere For You (or any of the Backstreet Boys lyrics serving as title, to be honest). I can pretty much guarantee I won't like the fic named Soulmates 4ever (I kid thee not).

So, yeah. What's your stance on them? I have to say, titles are to me what sex scenes are to -- Sky, was it? Certainly don't come naturally, and I'll often ponder them before posting. Still. I'm thinking... You invested so much time and energy into writing this. C'mon. Give it more thought than that. Y/N?

(Me, I'll usually use what I think is a clever [pop]culture reference, or a poignant lyric that will often have little to do with the fic but sounds good. Like, say, Marching Bands of Manhattan, or something similarly vague that I've used in the past. Then again, I post all my fics on LJ - personal or comms - so I rely on (concise though they might be) summaries more.)

Speaking of summaries. The conseequenses. Their grave. How will they cope??????...?????... is bad. It just is.

Titles are difficult. Some come easy; some don't. I have had whole fics inspired by a title that popped into my head; other times I've changed the title mid-story or it's occurred to me mid-story; there have also been the odd one or two times where I haven't had a title until the end of the story and have had to think of one then.

For me, a title has three purposes:

a) to give a hint of the theme/content of the fic
b) to be eye catching in a list so people are drawn to it
c) to entice someone into reading beyond the title

I do think people should take time to create a title but I have sympathy for those who struggle and ultimately just put up something simple.

However, I do have a pet peeve about fics put up with the title 'Untitled' or 'I haven't thought of a title yet'. Even if it's not a good title, give it a title!

Summaries are a whole different beast. In my mind a summary should be a catchy couple of sentences that give the reader an idea of the story without giving away the entire plot. However, I know some fans want all the details in a summary down to the pairing for fanfic so they can make an 'informed' choice. They are difficult to write and I can sometimes spend far too long playing around with them.

They should be spell-checked and coherent - I won't read something that has 'Sam feels the conssequinces of a flailed experimint' because who knows how bad the spelling/grammar is going to be in the actual fic. And nothing puts me off more than 'Please read! Story better than summary.' I know its difficult doing summaries but like the title - try to come up with something and just don't apologise for it.

[sbz]

Summaries are a whole different beast. In my mind a summary should be a catchy couple of sentences that give the reader an idea of the story without giving away the entire plot. However, I know some fans want all the details in a summary down to the pairing for fanfic so they can make an 'informed' choice. They are difficult to write and I can sometimes spend far too long playing around with them.

They should be spell-checked and coherent - I won't read something that has 'Sam feels the conssequinces of a flailed experimint' because who knows how bad the spelling/grammar is going to be in the actual fic. And nothing puts me off more than 'Please read! Story better than summary.' I know its difficult doing summaries but like the title - try to come up with something and just don't apologise for it.

Yes, yes, and yes. Agreement all around. I'm sure we've talked about this here before, but if a person can't write a technically correct summary then I don't have much faith that they can write a technically correct fic.

I dislike writing summaries too (but not as much as titles). I always feel... well, maybe it's because I tend to write long fics, but I'm always lost as to what aspect of the fic/plot I should be telling people. That's why I resorted to lifting an interesting line from the fic to use as the summary. Perhaps not the best ever option but it works for me.