Continuing Stargate

[s09119]

I actually rather enjoyed it -- insofar as I can enjoy any attempt to address Christianity in what is an inherently hostile environment. The Stargate universe, as a Secondary World, is not properly fit to deal with most modern religions; it's dug itself quite a hole.

Still, I thought the story was handled tactfully and was generally well done.

It was definitely a challenge to balance. I wanted the inherent role reversal of Ori and Tau'ri, but I didn't want the Christians as a whole to come off as murderous monsters. Overall I just don't like how it turned out, which is a shame since I was very excited when I started writing. But oh well.

[Crazy Tom]

I third that. I thought it was above average quality, clear and easy to read.

[AVFan]

I thought it was pretty good myself as well. The role reversal was a good story-piece, matching the Ori-crusaders with the religion that had crusades earlier in our own history.

The only thing I'm not so sure about are Cam's strong religious views- in seasons 9 and 10 he would talk about his grandma and how she was a Christian, but I was never convinced he was part of it himself as a believer; however, it's entirely possible he adapted Christianity into his life after everything he had been through post season 10.

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

I agree, and it's ironic that the Christian where doing the same thing the Ori did and not perceive it as wrong. And it also teaches that past wrong actions don't always teach how to do the right thing. First the christian crusade for the holy land than Spanish inquisition. Does those two teach anything to christians?

I thought it was pretty good myself as well. The role reversal was a good story-piece, matching the Ori-crusaders with the religion that had crusades earlier in our own history.

I -- ah, I don't know if this is the place for this. But the crusades and the Crusade (capital C) were very, very different in almost every way that matters. I think the message of the episode (and life) is that it's not religions going against each other that causes this stuff; it's people. It was a man that led the coup -- not the abstract concept of "Christianity". And it was the Ori that were behind the Crusade, not the abstract concept of "Origin".

The only thing I'm not so sure about are Cam's strong religious views- in seasons 9 and 10 he would talk about his grandma and how she was a Christian, but I was never convinced he was part of it himself as a believer; however, it's entirely possible he adapted Christianity into his life after everything he had been through post season 10.

I thought the portrayal of Cam was fair; the only sticking point for me was that he was Catholic. That just didn't make sense to me; he's far more likely (historically and regionally) to be a Baptist. But perhaps this is just another example of the "All Christianity is Catholic" trope that predominates entertainment media.

[SG-18]

I -- ah, I don't know if this is the place for this. But the crusades and the Crusade (capital C) were very, very different in almost every way that matters. I think the message of the episode (and life) is that it's not religions going against each other that causes this stuff; it's people. It was a man that led the coup -- not the abstract concept of "Christianity". And it was the Ori that were behind the Crusade, not the abstract concept of "Origin".

I think is completely accurate. It's never about the faith or the ideology, its about the people who use it to their own ends. They could just as easily fly under another banner and be equally happy if that idea got to them first.

I thought the episode was done the best way it could. I wouldn't ahve made it so religious on a personal note for Cam, but I think the manner in which it was done was good. Oddly enough, I was thinking about if this was a show and you were a writer, if this episode would ever have made it to production for TV. I think not. Which leads me to my follow up point: fan fiction allows us to explore the ideas that the media and/ or the masses may not be able to agree upon. We can explore those ideas in a relatively safe environment.

[AVFan]

I -- ah, I don't know if this is the place for this. But the crusades and the Crusade (capital C) were very, very different in almost every way that matters. I think the message of the episode (and life) is that it's not religions going against each other that causes this stuff; it's people. It was a man that led the coup -- not the abstract concept of "Christianity". And it was the Ori that were behind the Crusade, not the abstract concept of "Origin".

(Not sure if this was a response to my post, or to Steelbox's post, or both, but I'll treat it as the lattermost option)

Very true- though the comparison I was making had to do with each religion having followers that led a 'holy crusade' in the name of the religion, though the details of both crusades were probably fairly different (I'm not much of a history buff when it comes to the Christian crusades other than knowing that they were trying to retake the holy land, and a few other small details).

I thought the portrayal of Cam was fair; the only sticking point for me was that he was Catholic. That just didn't make sense to me; he's far more likely (historically and regionally) to be a Baptist. But perhaps this is just another example of the "All Christianity is Catholic" trope that predominates entertainment media.

I mean, it's not too hard to believe that Cam may have been religious, and I agree with you about him more likely being Baptist vs. Catholic too, though I suppose it doesn't mean too much in the grand scheme of the story really.

Oddly enough, I was thinking about if this was a show and you were a writer, if this episode would ever have made it to production for TV. I think not. Which leads me to my follow up point: fan fiction allows us to explore the ideas that the media and/ or the masses may not be able to agree upon. We can explore those ideas in a relatively safe environment.

Yeah, I'm appreciative of being in a place where we know (or at least think) no one will start a flaming war over this episode and we can talk about it with civility.

[Crazy Tom]

You know, this episode has HUGE potential.

1. Cam shot the guy in cold blood in violation of more rules of warfare than I can recall.
2. His team's obviously not saying anything about it to the ISGC.
3. If somebody else found out, it would be easy enough to get witnesses.
4. If that happened, the politicos hush it up to protect SG1's fagship status. Maybe they make Cam leave the team but the rest of the charges as accomplice to murder are sealed in black tape.

Political intrigue. Personal drama. Ideological twists and turns. Smell that? That's the smell of a success story.

[helimachoptor]

Crazy Tom, good notes there, it could easily lead to a long story arc with an ending like they need mitchell to save the planet or something which gets him off the hook... or he gives his life in a last act of redemption to save an innocent.

[Crazy Tom]

Crazy Tom, good notes there, it could easily lead to a long story arc with an ending like they need mitchell to save the planet or something which gets him off the hook... or he gives his life in a last act of redemption to save an innocent.

I'm personally hoping for a more cynical outcome. SG's had too many easy resets like that in the past IMO. Have him 'resign', the team face the fact that their government is willing to cover stuff up, etc.

[helimachoptor]

I'm personally hoping for a more cynical outcome. SG's had too many easy resets like that in the past IMO. Have him 'resign', the team face the fact that their government is willing to cover stuff up, etc.

I agree, but this is the last season, so there probably wouldnt be time to expand on the cover up part. It would probably be "oh we've covered it up, next episode please"

[thekillman]

i wouldn't mind Cam getting forced into resignation at the end of the series. fully taking the blame, biting the bullet for the sake of everyone else.

[Steelbox]

i wouldn't mind Cam getting forced into resignation at the end of the series. fully taking the blame, biting the bullet for the sake of everyone else.

Get Cam promoted than, this would effectively cut him from field duty.

[Crazy Tom]

Get Cam promoted than, this would effectively cut him from field duty.

Ooooo. Even better. Then he has to live with the guilt.

[SG-18]

i like that idea. Give him command of an offworld base or something and he can live with regret. It'd be a one sentence and done thing!

[s09119]

Not to interrupt the discussion, but next episode is being put on hold until I stop feeling like walking death. Gotta love the flu, yes you do.