Continuing Stargate

[Garth Claw]

Intresting eps, though the comparsion between the ancient dakra device and Pandaros box, was slight odd as any one could use the Darka device and only individuals with the right genetic code could use Pandaros box (are the traditionalist saying o'neil would use it against them?). Please do remember that the Jaffa wiped a whole planet of (innocent) people to get one Ori ship (and thats what we know about), whilst the box was only used against a species intend on wiping all life from the UNIVERSE!!, and couldn't be used by just anyone. Yes we would have studied it but it is so far out side science and evolution that it wouuld have just gathered dust.

Also is Earth under a single goverment and do we have full access to the Asgard database and the replication tech?

If so rebuilding wouldn't be that hard as the miltary reconstruction and single goverment construction incestives would be kick starting the economy especially if we were trading with other Human dominated planets that are friends of the SGC.

I am also surprised that there hasn't been any word on a Human republic/fedration with Earth as the Capital.

[s09119]

Not the most action in the world, but still a really good episode. I like what you did with this one- I think there are compelling arguments on both sides of the trial. I went into this episode with the notion that the senators were guilty without a doubt, but I come out not so sure of that.

Very nice job s09.

Well originally, the Teal'c we knew from, say, Season 8 would declare them guilty in a heartbeat. Back then, he, and the Jaffa in general, was much less focused on law and order and much more focused on honor and "the right thing." I wanted to illustrate that not only has Teal'c gained some wisdom now that he's leader of an entire civilization, but that the Jaffa really have evolved from the "barbarians" they were before. All of the humans, even Carter and Talbot, were under the impression that this trial would go horribly wrong due to the lack of legal understanding the Jaffa had, but instead, the opposite happened. The Senate ended up showing far more compassion and humanity than any court on Earth would, and it's likely that when the case gets the United Nations, you'll see a unanimous "guilty" verdict without a second thought.

Things that make you think.

Intresting eps, though the comparsion between the ancient dakra device and Pandaros box, was slight odd as any one could use the Darka device and only individuals with the right genetic code could use Pandaros box (are the traditionalist saying o'neil would use it against them?). Please do remember that the Jaffa wiped a whole planet of (innocent) people to get one Ori ship (and thats what we know about), whilst the box was only used against a species intend on wiping all life from the UNIVERSE!!, and couldn't be used by just anyone. Yes we would have studied it but it is so far out side science and evolution that it wouuld have just gathered dust.

First of all, you have to take things in perspective; the Jaffa attacked a human world to get an Ori ship, yes, but be honest... wouldn't having that ship really give them a chance to fight back? Up to that point, the Milky Way side of the war had yet to win a single battle, and it looked like there was no hope of victory without trying something entirely new. From the Jaffa point of view, this planet had capitulated to the Ori and would soon begin fighting for them, so their time as "innocents" was over.

Also is Earth under a single goverment and do we have full access to the Asgard database and the replication tech?

For the moment the United Nations has far more power than ever before, just because most international governments are still in shambles. That said, all the countries still exist (the USA has a President and conducts its own affairs, etc.), they are just subservient to the UN until Earth can get back on its feet. Whether or not the UN retains its status as a world government after reconstruction is yet to be seen.

As for the Asgard database, we haven't had that in some time, as it and the Odyssey were destroyed in the Season 11 finale. But large portions of it were copied and saved, so we do have some of the Asgard's knowledge to work with; that's how we were able to set up a defense grid of Asgard satellites, for example.

If so rebuilding wouldn't be that hard as the miltary reconstruction and single goverment construction incestives would be kick starting the economy especially if we were trading with other Human dominated planets that are friends of the SGC.

Well that's the problem, as beaming tech on that scale just isn't feasible. In my version of the SG universe, you can't use matter-beaming like that, to just put things together in seconds. To me, that destroys any realism at all, and we'd have a fleet of thousands of ships within days... where's the tension in that?

I am also surprised that there hasn't been any word on a Human republic/fedration with Earth as the Capital.

Why would the other humans want to be ruled by us? It's only working for the Jaffa because they, as a people, only found freedom when united. But the humans of the galaxy have largely been independent for thousands of years. Yes, many were forced to build things for the Goa'uld or mine for them, but humans just lack the same sense of brotherhood that the Jaffa do.

[lord groovy]

Intresting eps, though the comparsion between the ancient dakra device and Pandaros box, was slight odd as any one could use the Darka device and only individuals with the right genetic code could use Pandaros box (are the traditionalist saying o'neil would use it against them?). Please do remember that the Jaffa wiped a whole planet of (innocent) people to get one Ori ship (and thats what we know about), whilst the box was only used against a species intend on wiping all life from the UNIVERSE!!, and couldn't be used by just anyone. Yes we would have studied it but it is so far out side science and evolution that it wouuld have just gathered dust.

And they forgot to mention the various bioweapons made on Earth that were just as effective as Aschen ones. Well I do understand Teal'c : they made the decision of destroying the Pandora Box and they had to take responsability for that. They were guilty of stupidity and of treason against an ally of the FJN.

Also is Earth under a single goverment and do we have full access to the Asgard database and the replication tech?

If so rebuilding wouldn't be that hard as the miltary reconstruction and single goverment construction incestives would be kick starting the economy especially if we were trading with other Human dominated planets that are friends of the SGC.

I am also surprised that there hasn't been any word on a Human republic/fedration with Earth as the Capital.

Well other human populations are not really Earthlings. Their ancestors were already not Earthlings. Making a Human federation based on genetic proximity wouldn't work simply for our different ways of thinking. At best the Tau'ri could make the access to their colonies easier. They could then become valuable inhabited free trade worlds under Earth administration. They would then be the first steps to Tau'rizing the human populations of MW.

But well only Master s09119 knows how (if?) it is going to happen.

[thekillman]

i do think they're guilty, and should be punished. but not as punished as real terrorists. for example, they did destroy a superweapon. but they didn't kill. so there should be punishment with softening circumstances.


and yes, it was a good ep

[Jeffala]

They may not have killed people directly, but their actions surely prolonged the war and led to countless more deaths--including, one could argue, the death of the Nox civilization.

[Rasunda]

Indeed, but then again, the Nox took out 300 ships or so? It would reqiuer a lot of ATA-gene people. If the Nox hadn't sacrifieced them selves, then Vur'naa would still be in command and killing alliance forces. The Nox would have died any way, but that's just me. Yeah, good episode. And in what way did they prolong the war? That box would have just been sitting there untill there was a large battle comming up..

[Garth Claw]

Didn't the Jaffa agree not use the Dakra device in the war against the Ori, also with out a Prior the ship wasn't any good to them any way. Yes destroying it would have been a worth while tactial goal but to wipe out a whole planet of scared/un-educated individuals in the process (wouldn't this have meant that during our war with Gou'ald that no Jaffa should have been left standing?)

I did release that the Odyssey had been destroyed, I just wasn't sure how much of the databse had been saved (after all it is just complex data and the asgard could have incorperated self repair mechanisms).

Earth single goverment should be a natural outcome of the attack and invasion as the resistance would have to been organised on a planetary scale and opposition to a 'single directed will' would have been ruthlessly crushed (so the foundation should now be there) combiened with the realisation WE ARE NOT ALONE and that alot of the divisions are due to the gou'ald.

As to the matter-beaming I was think about small things (e.g. food packs), whilst we built/rebuilt the infurstructure especially if we could take the time to build it to Asgard level from the get go, and temporarily used the warships as astroid mining vessels.

As for the us rulling other human worlds, I was more thinking like a Human UN of the stars as we seem to be very under representated at the 'Alliance' level.

[thekillman]

actually humanity has about equal population as the entire FJN (earth alone) but concentrated on 1 planet.


i do think colonisation is an option, most likely at planets close to earth, where crude oil is drawn from, Naquahdah, trinium, and other materials like Chrome (it's getting scarce), Gold (price is high enough), silver, platinum, regular iron, but also titanium, aluminium, etc etc etc.

the oil BTW is essential for plastics, not for fuel (we can use hydrogen cells for that).

besides, the devastation has one MASSIVE advantage: we can change the old. as i said, petrol cars can be replaced by Fuel Cell cars, no need for planes (just replace airports with ring "ports", where a dozen or so ring stations are for travel around the world), more trains (maglev's, using naquahdah-based superconductive alloys), newer scyscrapers, etc etc etc. clean Orbit of fleet wreckage, but also of all the other spacecrap that's been circling around in orbit for ages (all those russian and american sats and sat wrecks).

replace communication sattelites with newer ones, equipped with stuff like shielding technology. or better said, just create a few large communication space stations. we can build new observation sattelites, a long-range sensor network, etc etc etc.


now is the time to modernise earth

[Rasunda]

Yes it is. Maybe also ad some of those nice looking asgard buildings?

[s09119]

actually humanity has about equal population as the entire FJN (earth alone) but concentrated on 1 planet.


i do think colonisation is an option, most likely at planets close to earth, where crude oil is drawn from, Naquahdah, trinium, and other materials like Chrome (it's getting scarce), Gold (price is high enough), silver, platinum, regular iron, but also titanium, aluminium, etc etc etc.

the oil BTW is essential for plastics, not for fuel (we can use hydrogen cells for that).

besides, the devastation has one MASSIVE advantage: we can change the old. as i said, petrol cars can be replaced by Fuel Cell cars, no need for planes (just replace airports with ring "ports", where a dozen or so ring stations are for travel around the world), more trains (maglev's, using naquahdah-based superconductive alloys), newer scyscrapers, etc etc etc. clean Orbit of fleet wreckage, but also of all the other spacecrap that's been circling around in orbit for ages (all those russian and american sats and sat wrecks).

replace communication sattelites with newer ones, equipped with stuff like shielding technology. or better said, just create a few large communication space stations. we can build new observation sattelites, a long-range sensor network, etc etc etc.


now is the time to modernise earth

Actually, you have one major misconception there; the Free Jaffa Nation's population is quite a bit larger than that of Earth. The Tau'ri have about 6 billion people as of right now, but the Free Jaffa have a population well into the tens of billions, just spread out over thousands of planets with a few major population centers. That said, even the minor worlds are beginning to show larger populations as the Der'kal war drove the smaller settlements into one another.

[Rasunda]

Earth had 6 billion people before the fall of earth. Shouldn't we have a much fewer number? I mean, orbital bombardment, in an episosde you stated that people die by the hundreds every day.. I think that we have about 4 billion left, maybe? 4.5?

[s09119]

Earth had 6 billion people before the fall of earth. Shouldn't we have a much fewer number? I mean, orbital bombardment, in an episosde you stated that people die by the hundreds every day.. I think that we have about 4 billion left, maybe? 4.5?

We would have around 7 billion by the time of the attack, considering we have 6.75 or something now. And most of the population fled the cities during the attack, and even with a nine-hundred people dying every day, that's only just over 300,000 in the year the Der'kal ruled Earth. I think a billion dead is reasonable.

[Jeffala]

At the end of DS9, when the Dominion attacked Cardassia, a few hours of ground and orbital attacks killed something like 800,000,000 people.

[s09119]

At the end of DS9, when the Dominion attacked Cardassia, a few hours of ground and orbital attacks killed something like 800,000,000 people.

And, as I said, the bombardment, in combination with the estimated 300,000 from the general condition of the planet, reduced Earth's population from roughly 7 billion to roughly 6 billion. When we're talking about billions of people, I think that's enough of a loss given that the Der'kal just wanted to conquer the planet, not exterminate humanity.

[Jeffala]

Oh I wasn't arguing against your number, just trying to point out that it's not unrealistic based on science fiction precedent.