Continuing Stargate

[bradly08]

i think we all saved each other at this point. And if you'll recall, the Russians had treaties with the Germans which was dissolved when Hitler invaded. The US gave the UK support, and i seem to recall a story about Churchill celebrating and having a drink when he heard Pearl Harbor was bombed. i think he was quoted at that moment whic hwas one of darker days in Britain as saying "We've won the war."





First off, i'm not american, second, the americans' didn't take on the USSR because that would have caused WW3. Instead they used subversive tactics to win the "cold war". Just because hte states didn't launch a massive shock and awe campaign to rid the world of communism doesn't mean they were any less responsible.

If the US hadn't taken on Korea and Vietnam, the USSR and China would have grown much larger and potentially would have had enough economy and infrastructure to keep up to the states and maybe even take it on.

The US was still responsible to some degree the collapse of the soviet union. just because it wasn't with bombs doesn't make them any less culpable.

First of, I apolgise if i did call you american, it was typed in a bit of a rush.

WW2 was won because of all 3 parties.

Britian helped by keeping the Altantic safe so supplies can get across (Which a good amount went to Russia). We also took on the Germans in North Africa, which was a big help as it opened up Italy to invasion and also helped us find the best way to fight the far better tanks.

Russia helped by simply puting on soo much pressure onto the Germans. They pushed the german economy to breaking point (many historians belive that if Germany's economy was better prepaired, they could have won the war.)

Americans helped because they provided the money and supplies needed to fight such a war. Their extra troops also helped.

I agree with you on the cold war thing, but the problem is that the communism in Russia and china isnt true communisnm. Marxist Communism was probibly one of the most democratic forms of governemnt. But they only way to implement it was through force, which creates a paradox. you overthrow the Bourgeoisie only to become it.

[Rudy Pena]

Oh, I love this little debate, it sounds really cool and fun!!!!!


This is what I think. All of the Allied forces of WW2 had a major factor in winning WW2(Yes, even Canada and the Aussies).

As for Amercian stopping communism, we did help the fall of the Russia in some shape or form. But in doing so, we have created alot of problems that are happening now that we didnt and never forsaw, cause in this day and age. All this stuff thats happening now, was only mere scenice fiction(if that).

[AVFan]

Personally I don't think that the Allies beat the Germans. Hitler beat himself with some of the worst tactics ever- By all rights, the Axis powers ought to have won the war IMO.

Dunkirk- The Germans had British and French troops holed up there for several days IIRC, and Hitler told his troops to stand down. Over a hundred thousand French/British troops escaped to Britain.

The Battle of Britain- Rather than invading the British Isles with ground troops, Hitler settled for bombing London/Britain through the air, which was an especially bad blunder because the British had just discovered/invented radar which made the German planes easier to shoot down.

Fighting on two fronts- rather than taking the war one front at a time, Hitler decided to invade Russia before the war with Britain was done. This severely diminished the effectiveness of his forces. JMO, but if Europe had been completely under Axis control, the USA would've had second thoughts about entering the war on the European front.

The USSR- Hitler had his troops move to take over the USSR at the beginning of summer (again, IIRC). That means that they didn't encounter heavy USSR resistance until fall and the Winter. The German troops were ill equipped to deal with the Russian winter and the Germans lost hundreds of thousands of troops in the frozen tundra.

So basically, like I said, Hitler beat himself. I think we can all agree though that the French building turrets that can't swivel all the way around, and none on the Belgium border, didn't help the rest of us Allies.

[Rudy Pena]

The Battle of Britain- Rather than invading the British Isles with ground troops, Hitler settled for bombing London/Britain through the air, which was an especially bad blunder because the British had just discovered/invented radar which made the German planes easier to shoot down.

You my friend have lots to learn about military tactics.

2 reasons I know why he didnt invade Great Britian was, 1. You always need to have/aquire fire superioty, which in this case is Air superioity in order to assit and ground troops who are under heavy fire. 2. To try and break the British civilians morale and they then the civilians would want Great Britian to surrender, which has we all know did not work.

[AVFan]

You my friend have lots to learn about military tactics.

2 reasons I know why he didnt invade Great Britian was, 1. You always need to have/aquire fire superioty, which in this case is Air superioity in order to assit and ground troops who are under heavy fire. 2. To try and break the British civilians morale and they then the civilians would want Great Britian to surrender, which has we all know did not work.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't have bombed Britain (from their point of view). I'm saying that they bombed Britain for several months and didn't get anywhere. You've got to try something new.

[Rudy Pena]

I'm not saying that they shouldn't have bombed Britain (from their point of view). I'm saying that they bombed Britain for several months and didn't get anywhere. You've got to try something new.

Ok, I see what you are saying now.

[oXyTeC]

Its true the axis could have won the war with well better tactics
the biggest one would be not to attack the USSR so soon :-p not sure if it counts as a tactic tho


but the Belgians did hold up against the axis surprisingly long compared to European nations

also the European nations didn't really work well together
most kept waiting until the axis was at their border before joining in

[SG-18]

glad i sorta started this discussion, his thread hasn't been so lit up since some of So9s episodes and the debate about sex in SGU.

anyway, Russia, UK, US, France, Canada and yes, even the aussies all helped take down hitler. not one power could've done it by themselves and not one power was useless. they all helped. I am an avid reader of military history and in particular the World wars, so I feel i can accurately claim the US did not in fact take down hitler by itself. while we did provide the brunt of the forces on D-Day, it was the russians who sacrificed on the eastern front and the british who helped us in Italy. on the italian side, sure it was mostly the US, but it was truly a combined effort.

if you're interested in this sort of stuff, check out: http://www.ww2f.com/

^great site for all things WWII^

also, the battle of britain, look up the debates there. The germans were actually quite effective, by the end of their bombing campaigns they were in control of the skies in southern england. Their plan for invasion, Unternehmen Seelöwe (Operation Sea Lion) might or might not have worked. We wont know, b/c hitler decided to invade russia. Hitler was his own worst enemy in some regards. in the Battle of Britian for example, a british pilot was flying three or four sorties a day and the germans just kept coming. it was exhaustion which was the key in the battle of britain.

anyway, hope I've moved the debate along. I think everything I've said can be backed up by pure fact, maybe... *shrug*

[captain simms]

i think you lot will find that if it wasnt for britain then the germans would have developed nuclear weapons before the americans, also in the battle of britain the reason we won was because of the many decoy towns and bases we littered around the country aswell as developing radar technology, thats why german air raids wernt that effective, and operation sea lion would have failed it was proven to a 98 % certainty.

also while we are on the subject of the cold war in korea and vietnam britain sent troops aswell as americans to fight against communist countries just like we have been doing in afghanistan weve helped the americans as much as they have helped us

[Aewon]

i think you lot will find that if it wasnt for britain then the germans would have developed nuclear weapons before the americans

That was a British/Norwegian combined effort. The Brits made it possible, but the saboteurs were all Norwegians. Also, it's been proven later that Hitler wasn't close to getting his own nuclear weapons.

[thekillman]

it's called a WORLD WAR for a reason. everyone participated. but i got to say, my country did not, and could not put up much of an effort against the german invasion. us dutch had bad military equipment, and infact planned on staying neutral. like in WW1. but the germans thought otherwise. also, seeing as the largest part of our land border is bordering germany, any proper defence with proper stuff would not have worked. germans could just pull armies from all over germany to invade.

lastly, the germans bombed one of our main cities, and then we surrendered. besides, Holland was strategically important to both western and nazi sides. borders both england (over sea) and germany (directly), and would put important german sites directly in the line of british and american fire if the british/americans got here first.


besides, the american Nukes were practically useless in terms of warfare. the war was largely over, and the americans just wanted to see the fruits of the extremely expensive Manhattan project. so, they decided to nuke.


i'm glad they did, it showed the world what nukes could do.

lastly, i agree with the fact that Hitler was the Third Reich's greatest enemy, making stupid millitary descisions. he just failed to listen to his important officiers.

[Aragon101]

it's called a WORLD WAR for a reason. everyone participated. but i got to say, my country did not, and could not put up much of an effort against the german invasion. us dutch had bad military equipment, and infact planned on staying neutral. like in WW1. but the germans thought otherwise. also, seeing as the largest part of our land border is bordering germany, any proper defence with proper stuff would not have worked. germans could just pull armies from all over germany to invade.

lastly, the germans bombed one of our main cities, and then we surrendered. besides, Holland was strategically important to both western and nazi sides. borders both england (over sea) and germany (directly), and would put important german sites directly in the line of british and american fire if the british/americans got here first.


besides, the american Nukes were practically useless in terms of warfare. the war was largely over, and the americans just wanted to see the fruits of the extremely expensive Manhattan project. so, they decided to nuke.


i'm glad they did, it showed the world what nukes could do.

lastly, i agree with the fact that Hitler was the Third Reich's greatest enemy, making stupid millitary descisions. he just failed to listen to his important officiers.

Holland WAS very important strategically, i seem to recall many labs and naval yards being placed there. Also, wasn't that mega super battleship being built in a port there? Forget the name, but it never put to sea, bombed to oblivion from the air.

it's a widely accepted fact that while Hitler was very charismatic to the German people at the time, he was also more than just three fries short of a happy meal. There are a plethora of documentaries explaining how he liked to pull reverse "R. Kelly"s as well as other strange nad honestly disturbing things.

Off Topic, but has anyone seen that SGA fanvideo that has Hitler's reaciton to the cancellation of SGA?

Here's the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNtdKVU_Apw

[Alx]

Holland WAS very important strategically, i seem to recall many labs and naval yards being placed there. Also, wasn't that mega super battleship being built in a port there? Forget the name, but it never put to sea, bombed to oblivion from the air.

it's a widely accepted fact that while Hitler was very charismatic to the German people at the time, he was also more than just three fries short of a happy meal. There are a plethora of documentaries explaining how he liked to pull reverse "R. Kelly"s as well as other strange nad honestly disturbing things.

Off Topic, but has anyone seen that SGA fanvideo that has Hitler's reaciton to the cancellation of SGA?

Here's the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNtdKVU_Apw

Bismarck, biggest baddest thing to ever sail the seas.
lol funny vid **sneaks back to lurking mode**

[Aragon101]

Bismarck, biggest baddest thing to ever sail the seas.
lol funny vid **sneaks back to lurking mode**

no no no... this was something else. it was the biggest and baddest battleship Germany ever made. Started with a T i think. It was never put out to sea because i think british commandos damaged it whiel it was in port, and before it could be repaired, teh port itself came under massive bombardment.

[Alx]

Tirpitz? if so that was just the sistership of the Bismarck identical in almost every way. like daedalus and odyssey. *engages lurking mode*