Continuing Stargate

[Fleet Admiral - Earth]

Crazy Tom, come on man show some compassion he just lost his namesake, just give him some time to mourn.

Thanks s09119, i feel like an idiot for not seeing that it seem s pretty damn obvious now.
Oh and i thought you weren't gonna tell us what happened to our remaining ships except in the episodes, i was a bit shocked you actually told us straight up the daedalus was gone.

Though i suppose we had to lose the Daedalus at least cause if the Aurora and Apollo, which are still in doubt, are both still active then all three DSC-304s remaining are american and we can't have that can we (heavy sarcasm).

Although Australian ships are good wink wink.

[jonos101]

Although Australian ships are good wink wink.

Seconds the *wink wink*

[s09119]

Oh and i thought you weren't gonna tell us what happened to our remaining ships except in the episodes, i was a bit shocked you actually told us straight up the daedalus was gone.

Well, it was explicitly in the episode that the ship exploded haha, I didn't think I'd be shocking anyone by just confirming that.

[Aewon]

A better tactic would be bombing their industrial complexes (the ones not on earth, which are likely to be right in the middle of large population centers to discirage such tactics), especially their mines and scrap yards.

Yes, I agree.

Well i do take some offense, cause in my oppinion it is effective. similar to pearl harbour the U.S. was incapable of offensive for nearly a year. In this case the der'kal could be losinh 2 or 3 ships each atttack for no losses to us cause as seen in 'severed dreams' when we come out of hyperspace the only warning they seem to have is us firing on them. They are rebuilding their lost ships over captured planets but if you follow this tactic they simply can not keep up with rebuilding 2-3 ships a week times how many raiding groups you use. And as for rebuilding their defenses, the only defenses the der'kal seem to have are their ships, and it's unlikely they'll have cruisers or superships on the edges of their fleets. meaning you don't fly in to the armada and have 100 ships depleting your shields in minutes like Jupiter in 'severed dreams', you come out at the edge of their space where they can't bring as much firepower to bear meaning the Jupiter will last longer and half protect the 304s with it and enable them to take out a few escort ships. the der'kal fleets would start to diminsh as they can't continue to rebuild ships as fast as they would be losing them.

Imagine you were the commander of a vast galactic fleet, would you just roll over and let the enemy harass your fleet? They might take out a few, but sooner or later the Der'kal would set up a trap for them and the Earth ships would come up against more than they can handle. Besides, the Der'kal do possess technology that can kick enemy ships right out of hyperspace.

[hamatau'ri]

HEy, just thought you might want to see this, it's a pic of the X-305 "Dauntless" from scifi-meshes (http://www.scifi-meshes.com/meshes/index.php?cid=6) Looks very impressive.
http://stargateworlds.filefront.com/potd/97058

And the X-305 Excalibur, from Mallacore from Deviant Art. http://forum.gateworld.net/attachmen...2&d=1233863411

BTW Keep on continuing with you Season 15, can wait to see your Atlantis continuation!

[SG-18]

HEy, just thought you might want to see this, it's a pic of the X-305 "Dauntless" from scifi-meshes (http://www.scifi-meshes.com/meshes/index.php?cid=6) Looks very impressive.

http://stargateworlds.filefront.com/potd/97058

BTW Keep on continuing with you Season 15, can wait to see your Atlantis continuation!

That is an evil looking ship. I don't really like it very much. Just my honest Opinion.

Now, I have been following this debate about the hit and run tactics against the Der'kal.

-----

Yes, I agree.

Quote:
Well i do take some offense, cause in my oppinion it is effective. similar to pearl harbour the U.S. was incapable of offensive for nearly a year. In this case the der'kal could be losinh 2 or 3 ships each atttack for no losses to us cause as seen in 'severed dreams' when we come out of hyperspace the only warning they seem to have is us firing on them. They are rebuilding their lost ships over captured planets but if you follow this tactic they simply can not keep up with rebuilding 2-3 ships a week times how many raiding groups you use. And as for rebuilding their defenses, the only defenses the der'kal seem to have are their ships, and it's unlikely they'll have cruisers or superships on the edges of their fleets. meaning you don't fly in to the armada and have 100 ships depleting your shields in minutes like Jupiter in 'severed dreams', you come out at the edge of their space where they can't bring as much firepower to bear meaning the Jupiter will last longer and half protect the 304s with it and enable them to take out a few escort ships. the der'kal fleets would start to diminsh as they can't continue to rebuild ships as fast as they would be losing them.

-----

I think that this tactic would work for about three months. At that point, the Der'kal would set a trap in a similar fashion as we saw against Carter in the Last Man with the wraith.

I think though, that the AI F-302s would be incredibly effective, in essence, really smart bombs. The problem is I have no idea how many F-302s we have left, so that could be the limiting factor. Also, how many nukes do we have.

The answer is unknown. We may have only a small compliment of nuclear warheads and a small allotment of F-302s, so that might work as a stage one attack against the Der'kal forces on Earth. I would do that, then send in everything else in a two pronged attacked. If you have a dozen ships taken out in a min. by unmanned F-302s they Der'kal would freak out. Wait a few min to make it look like it's all over, then bring in the heavy guns.

Provided we hit them with some help from the rest of the Alliance, I think we could take back Earth, but I dunno how many Der'kal there are.

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

How do you know Marks was on Daedalus? Everyone knows he's on a transfer program.

[Wazmux]

When is the next episode com?*ng? And please let us see some BIG space battles soon?

[cuttingedgex23]

When is the next episode com?*ng? And please let us see some BIG space battles soon?

I dont understand why everyone loves space battles so much? yes they are nice but they make for some boring writing if its just battle after battle, and it doesnt really showcase SG-1 or many other characters.

[Fleet Admiral - Earth]

Yes, I agree.



Imagine you were the commander of a vast galactic fleet, would you just roll over and let the enemy harass your fleet? They might take out a few, but sooner or later the Der'kal would set up a trap for them and the Earth ships would come up against more than they can handle. Besides, the Der'kal do possess technology that can kick enemy ships right out of hyperspace.

My apologies, i think you misunderstood my meaning on both counts.

i was not referring to thier interdictor capabilities but the capabilities of their sensors to detect incoming ships from hyperspace, Atlantis can do it, Earth ships can detect an opening hyperspace exit, but thus far there is no indication that der'kal ships are capable of detecting incoming ships unless they expect the vector and pull them out with the interdictor's. I suppose they could set traps by placing the interdictors around their holdings to bring them out at a disadvantage but that would tie them up from other deployments, which means they lose the initiative and are reacting to our moves giving us some advantage.

Also, coming up against more ships then they can handle is sort of the point, they are raiding parties comprising 2-3 ships that come out at the EDGE of the armada where they'd place interdictors anyway and destroy 3-4 surrounding ships.

I stress this tactic is most likely to be used against occupied Earth if it was only Earth's remiang resources being used to try and take it back. and also carter is already using some form of hit and run tactics against the der'kal so this ain't much of a stretch.

[Fleet Admiral - Earth]

I think that this tactic would work for about three months. At that point, the Der'kal would set a trap in a similar fashion as we saw against Carter in the Last Man with the wraith.

Thanks for commenting and you raise some valid points.
However in carter's case she had limited resources (just the one ship), meaning that for us we could exit hyperspace at the edge of a solar system and send a cloaked cargo ship/puddle jumper in to scout the target, searching for traps and then hit them.


I think though, that the AI F-302s would be incredibly effective, in essence, really smart bombs. The problem is I have no idea how many F-302s we have left, so that could be the limiting factor. Also, how many nukes do we have.

Another valid point you raise, however, my thinking on this point is that yes we have limited 302s and nukes but if the tactic proves as i believe it to be than the other alliance members will start using their own nukes and ships or providing us with the necessary materials. cause really you could also overload the naquadah generators ZPMs, the tainted ZPM if we still have it (although it'd have to be in a solar system with lots of der'kal and no alliance or other innocents). Besides with an unmanned F-302 or other alliance vehicles it'd be easier, faster and cheaper to build as you doon't have to worry about bomb bay's, life support many systems. all it needs is a computer with the calculations the naquadriah hyperdrive engine for the short jump and a few other loose ends that don't equal the full requirement s of a the manned combat vaariant of the F-302.

ps. i hope i've explained myself properly and no misunderstands me.

But hey maybe that's just the difference between Aussies and everyone else lol.

[s09119]

15x03 "Acts of Contrition"
Synopsis: The unexpected appearance of Chinese survivors from Earth—complete with their own warship—draws deep divisions amongst the refugees, forcing Carter into a confrontation with the new arrivals.

Spoiler:

((30 second recap of "Divided We Fall"))

Inside the Beta Site's gate room, a recuperated Major Eaton pulls on her jacket as she enters, smiling and nodding to the other soldiers nearby. Following her near-death experience ("Contagion"), she seems a lighter, happier person, not at all the harsh and suspicious officer she appeared to be a few weeks before ("Severed Dreams"). That said, she hasn't lost any of her anger when she wants to wield it, and she demands to know why a report on yesterday's gate activities wasn't on her desk when it was supposed to be an hour ago. One of the younger officers hurriedly explains that they've been a little backed up and promises to have it done by midday. Quickly calming, Eaton thanks the young man, admitting that she really doesn't need it right away... but she appreciates the prompt and responsible answer anyway.

Just then a nearby console beeps, and a pulsing red dot appears on a monitor, just above a 2D representation of the planet. Clapping her hands together, Eaton says that this must be the Jupiter back from its latest mission into Der'kal space; after all, the transponder signature identifies their new visitor as a human ship alright. But then the same young officer shes just commended raises his hand in confusion, saying that the vessel in orbit isn't broadcasting United Nations or United States IFF (as Carter most certainly would have her own cruiser doing). In fact, it's not broadcasting a confirmation code of any kind.

Now growing somewhat worried, Eaton asks if they have any other ships in orbit, but unfortunately they're all out doing maneuvers on the far side of the moon. If this new arrival turns out to be hostile, they'll never make it back in time. Sighing, Rebecca resigns herself to the fact that they might be in this alone, and prepares to have the F-302s onhand scrambled. Of course, this is just before they pick up another contact arriving overhead. And this one, thankfully, is practically blaring is identity; it's the Jupiter!

Sitting in the bridge, Carter and her cruiser rocket out of hyperspace to glide out over the Beta Site... and face what seems to be another X-305, complete undamaged and looking just off the assembly lines. Samantha slowly rises from her chair, staring open-mouthed at the pristine vessel facing them, and finally manages to turn to her equally-shocked crew and ask for a communications channel to be opened. Before they can even set up the link, though, the other ship contacts both them and the base below, and Carter answers at once. A moment later, the monitor lights up with the face of former-Ambassador Shen Xaioyi of China, who greets her American counterpart and explains that this is the MBP-305 Mao Zedong, a Chinese owned-and-operated sister-ship to the Jupiter itself. When Sam, awed, opens her mouth to ask something, Xiaoyi olds up a hand, saying that this isn't just a courtesy call; they need help, and they're prepared to extend an offer that the refugees simply won't be able to refuse. Confused but interested, Carter nods and offers to meet in an hour. Nodding back in agreement, Shen cuts the link.

A short time later, Daniel, Carter, Jack, and Taylor sit in the mess hall on the Jupiter (the Chinese ship being visible through the window), discussing the recent turn of events. Both Jackson and Taylor are of the mind that they should give Shen the benefit of the doubt for now and go into talks without any preconceived notions about intentions or hostilities. After all, the last thing they want to do is scare off a potential new ship to add to their fleet. On the other hand, Sam and O'Neill are worried that the Chinese will try to vie for some power, using their MBP-305 as leverage to take over the day-to-day operations of the settlement. The debate gets rather heated, too; Daniel points out that no one is going to accept Chinese rule after what they did on Earth, and Sam immediately fires back. When Taylor tries to argue that they might even have some much-needed medical supplies, Jack points out that they can always get some from the Jaffa or Tok'ra.

At length, Taylor stands, knocking back his chair, and asks the two other officers if they're serious about this. For God's sake, he shouts, ever since O'Neill returned from captivity, the two of them have just been agreeing on everything, like there's no room for healthy discussion now that the happy couple is together. Speaking in unison, Carter and Jack shout that that's simply not true, immediately realizing that, just given the nature of their responses, he's correct. Regardless, Sam doesn't want to talk about this right now and says she'll make her own decision in due time... a remark which earns a perhaps well-earned question from Taylor; is this an autocracy or isn't it? And if it is, what does Sam plan to do when no one wants to take it any longer? To that, Carter has no answer and merely walks out, with Jack following after a moment. Daniel and Taylor stay behind, contemplating their place in things and wondering if the Samantha Carter they used to know is still around at all.

A short time later, Shen Xiaoyi is standing on the bridge of the Mao Zedong, consulting with is commander, Colonel Li Xueju. An older man, Xueju was born on the eve of the Communist takeover of China, and has faithfully served his government ever since. Unlike Shen, he has no liberal notions of international cooperation, and shares none of her respect for the Americans or the former members of the ISGC and SG-1. In fact, his only tangible goal is to reassert his peoples' place in things as soon as possible, despite the fact that 99.9% of their population still resides under Der'kal occupation on Earth.

Getting up from his chair and walking to the forward window to stare out at the Beta Site, Xueju wonders aloud why he allowed Shen to convince him to come here at all. After all, now that the Westerners know they survived their attempt to "wipe them out," as he says, they will surely want to take their vessel for themselves. This will accomplish nothing but another round of Western hegemony over China, and he will fight to the last to prevent that. Sighing, Shen says that's highly unlikely, especially considering the "West" no longer exists anyway, what with their world under alien control.

Glancing at her watch, Shen tells Xueju that it's time for them to beam down to the Beta Site complex, and the Colonel grudgingly admits that they have to meet with them sometime. Calling over a group of six armed guards, he pulls the former-ambassador (who noticeably flinches) next to him and orders his crew to transport them down. A moment later they disappear, only to be deposited in the gate room of the mountain a split-second later. Standing directly across from them is the refugee delegation, consisting of Carter, Jackson, Taylor, and Major Eaton... and, of course, a contingent of armed marines.

Stepping forward, Sam extends her hand and shakes Colonel Xueju's, the two of them locking stares in a relaxed but clearly-combative sort of way; neither officer looks at all pleased to see each other. Clearing his throat to break the tense silence, Taylor welcomes the Chinese to the Beta Site, saying that they are welcome to stay here as long as they please. Almost before he finishes speaking, though, one of the nearby marines yanks out his pistol and moves to shoot Shen and her companions, screaming that they're responsible for dooming humanity to this blasted rock. Just as his finger closes on the trigger, though, Eaton grabs him roughly and doubles him over, delivering a swift and vicious roundhouse kick into the marine's torso, then grabbing his sidearm and knocking him to the floor while he's stunned. Turning to another soldier, she orders the offending marine to be escorted to a cell, then glances knowingly at the others before following to make sure her orders are carried out.

Shocked, Shen says nothing, but Xueju demands that someone explain this. After all, assurances were made that their protection would be guaranteed within the military complex, and yet clearly that is not the case. Daniel explains that they can't exactly control every individual on the planet, but they're doing the best they can. Taking the Chinese man by the arm, he leads the Colonel out of the room, trying to placate him before his anger boils over. Watching them go, Shen asks dryly if he's being taken to a firing squad waiting in the hall, a remark which Carter rebuffs immediately; She knows her better than that! But the former-ambassador isn't so sure now, not with all that's happened. She knows that she nor her people are welcome here, not really, and she wants to begin talks as soon as possible. Nodding in defeat, Carter and Taylor lead the delegation out of the gate room, letting the people on-duty there noticeably relax.

A few moments later, the group seats themselves in a conference room, the guards from both parties leaving to wait outside in silent confrontation. After closing the door, Carter takes a seat at the extreme end of the table from the two new arrivals, clasping her hands as if to say, "Your move." Frowning at the stance she's taking, Daniel tries to open up diplomacy by asking just how, exactly, the Mao Zedong was built without the UN ever learning about it, and how they managed to escape Earth during the Der'kal attack. Xueju laughs, stating that they never had to get offworld during the assault for one very simple reason: they weren't there.

(First half of "Acts of Contrition," see next post for conclusion.)

[s09119]

(Conclusion of "Acts of Contrition," see previous post for start.)

Spoiler:

(The next segment is portrayed via flashbacks)

Just after the time-traveling-Jonas incident ("The Time Traveler"), the Chinese government was informed and given documentation of what their visitor revealed to the ISGC via the United Nations, as all the former IOA nations did. But when the People's Army believed that the Western nations were not revealing all the details, they called on a cash-strapped young professional in the Pentagon, offering quite a large sum of money in exchange for copies of the sensitive information they were being denied. And a week later, they had exactly what they wanted... a technical readout and schematics of the experimental future-warship, the Jupiter.

Knowing that the other nations would turn on them at once if they knew that the Chinese were constructing their own version of such a mammoth vessel, the Communist Party decided to ensure they'd never know. Using one of their new BC-303s, they took a stargate from an uninhabited planet and moved it to a world never visited by the ISGC, using their growing fleet to ferry supplies back and forth constantly for weeks. Within a month, they'd set up a fledgling colony with but one purpose, to churn out a MBP-305 as soon as possible. All the raw materials were purchased from private Free Jaffa mining organizations to prevent anyone from tracing the goods, and over the next year, the ship was assembled, with only occasional visits by Chinese spies to Nueva to see how the Westerners were doing things on their version.

On the day of the Der'kal attack, the Chinese government dispatched a subspace transmission to their colony just before the United Nations cut off their communications ("Divided We Fall"). They warned their offworld settlement that conquest back home was very likely, but not to worry, for they would be safe. The last time they saw a true Chinese official was when a BC-303 that had left Earth before the discovery of China's betratal arrived, carrying Ambassador Shen Xiaoyi; her reward for so many years of service was to be given the post of governmental oversight of the 305 project, not that the government itself would exist for much longer.

Over the course of the next year, the Chinese survivors continued building their ship, using their sole-remaining vessel (the 303) to bring in the last batches of supplies. Finally, just over two months ago, their cruiser was complete, but now they had no way to test its effectiveness. Worried that it might prove flawed, Colonel Xueju had the Mao Zedong jump to P9X-335, the planet where the war had began three years before ("Shatterpoint"). He had hoped to encounter a small measure of enemy resistance, allowing him to test the 305 without much chance of destruction, but Xueju was shocked to find the planet completely converted into a massive shipyard, with dozens of alien corvettes and frigates rolling out of construction. They barely escaped back into hyperspace, but they made it back nonetheless.

Unfortunately, that would prove to be their undoing. The Der'kal, newly aware that a group of Tau'ri still existed, managed to locate their settlement and attacked. The 305 managed to flee before being destroyed, but the colony itself was slagged from orbit. With nowhere else to turn, Shen suggested they head to the refugees at the Beta Site...

(Flashback ends)

Trying to take in what they've just heard, Carter, Taylor, and Daniel all sit in silence, thinking. Taylor is the first to recover, and quickly points out that that explains why the Der'kal weren't going crazy trying to find them after their extraction over Ankgor ("Severed Dreams"); they thought that they'd taken out the final group of dissident Tau'ri with the fall of the Chinese settlement a month ago. After all, there was even a MBP-305 there to complete the unintentional deception.

Eyeing Shen closely, Carter asks if that's really all there is to it, that they just came here for sanctuary and nothing else. When both she and Xueju confirm, Sam decides to test their mettle, asking if, in that case, they would accept putting the Mao Zedong under her personal command as payment for staying here and being given shelter and basic necessities. Almost at once, the Chinese Colonel howls in rage, shouting that this is not that kind of exchange. He growls out a counter-offer; in exchange for foodstuffs, medicine, and living space for his people, he will not beam one of his nukes down to the refugee camp.

Grabbing his headset, Taylor links up to the Jupiter and tells the men there to sound general quarters and target the Chinese ship's life support, engine, and weapons systems immediately, but not to fire just yet. High above, the two 305s suddenly turn to face one another, no doubt preparing for imminent combat should their respective commanders give the word.

When Shen shouts that this is madness, that they should be trying to work with the Westerners, not harm them, Xueju cries out that he's had enough of her disloyal thoughts. In front of everyone, he pulls out a concealed pistol and shoots her in the chest, knocking her back against the wall, alive but critically injured. In an instant, Carter and Taylor have their own sidearms at the ready, cocked and aimed at the Chinese officer's head. Sam orders him to stand down right now, and maybe they can salvage this whole mess. But the other Colonel isn't interested in talk anymore. He mutters that he never should have been swayed to come here, points his gun (out of sight and facing the wall) toward his head and fires, killing himself.

While Carter and Taylor stand shocked, Daniel rushes forward and grabs a fading Shen, saying that she's going to be okay and shouting for someone to contact Dr. Lam. But as if realizing that her time is an end, the former ambassador just grabs Jackson's hand, thanking him for understanding. All she wanted was to make a way for her people to be forgiven for what they did, something she never wished upon the Westerners, a people she considers her friends and allies. Gripping Daniel tight, she makes her dying request; that her people be remembered with honor, for it was a government, not a culture, that turned against Earth in the end. Her only wish is that her mission here, her final act, be thought of as one of contrition... a last, desperate attempt for redemption. And with that, she slips into the afterlife.

A few hours later, Carter is onboard the Mao Zedong, which, in the absence of their two senior commanders, has come under the control of a young Chinese Major. Sam seems to be in the process of bringing the ship under her own jurisdiction, beaming in Beta Site personnel to work alongside the Chinese and moving some of the original crewmembers over to the Jupiter to show that this isn't entirely a one-sided thing. Radioing Taylor down inside the mountain, she says that having an extra 305 will do wonders for them in the long run, though her planetside counterpart has concerns that this whole thing will come back to haunt them.

Indeed, the two Colonels are speaking unaware of two Beta Site marines watching Carter walk down the halls, murmuring to one another. Apparently, a rumor has begun circulating that Carter and Taylor met with the Chinese to discuss to discuss the handing over of power to Colonel Xueju and his men. The younger of the two marines clenches his fists angrily, saying that this nonsense of Samantha Carter's has gone on long enough. The assassination attempt obviously failed ("Severed Dreams"), and now is time for something far larger; a full-blown military coup. Agreeing that the time has come, the two marines sneak off, no doubt to inform other conspirators of their decision.

On the surface, Jack meets Daniel outside the Beta Site, where the latter stands on a cliff overlooking the refugee camp with tears in his eyes. Not knowing what to do, O'Neill points out that Shen died doing what she loved, trying to make a difference in the world. But Daniel can only shake his head and mutter how unfair it all is that such good people can die by the hands of such hateful others like Colonel Xueju. All Shen wanted was to reunite humanity, to bring them all back together. But Xueju's only real reason for coming was an attempt to terrorize them into essentially making what was left of China the sole ruling body of the human race, exactly as Jack and Sam had feared from the very start. O'Neill tells him that sometimes this is just the way things go... no matter how idiotic it may seem. Putting his arm around Daniel, the two of them stare out into the sunset, wondering what tomorrow will bring.

[Dr. Daedalus]

Crazy Tom, come on man show some compassion he just lost his namesake, just give him some time to mourn.

Thank you Fleet Admiral - Earth. . I think my time of mourning is now over.

How do you know Marks was on Daedalus? Everyone knows he's on a transfer program.

The last time we saw Marks he was on the Daedalus so I assumed he was still serving on it. You do make a good point though.

Dr. Daedalus

[Crazy Tom]

This is turning into a full blown BSG scenario.