Fic help.

[Nikki Alexander]

I've found quite a good one actually, but thanks guys.

[BruTak]

Does the panel think, that in this modern age of mass communications, virtually everything being on record somewhere, and the internet and so on, that it's still possible to lie about ones age to join the military?

[iiradned]

Does the panel think, that in this modern age of mass communications, virtually everything being on record somewhere, and the internet and so on, that it's still possible to lie about ones age to join the military?

Increasingly unlikely, especially if the one lying about their age wants to keep his/her own name.

About only way now is to use the same techniques identity thieves use. Steal the identity information of a likely subject and use that to lie their way into the military.

[BruTak]

Increasingly unlikely, especially if the one lying about their age wants to keep his/her own name.

About only way now is to use the same techniques identity thieves use. Steal the identity information of a likely subject and use that to lie their way into the military.

That's pretty much what I thought. How about 20 years ago?

[fems]

In the pilot Sam mentioned that she has "logged over a hundred hours in enemy airspace during the Gulf War" but does anyone know what she (or a woman her age/rank) could have been doing exactly? I did a bit of googling and found some stuff about the role of women in the Gulf, like them flying helicopters, recon aircraft and even participating in combat but I would appreciate it if someone could give me a (credible) example of what her experience could entail, especially since she doesn't seem to have wings...

[sbz]

In the pilot Sam mentioned that she has "logged over a hundred hours in enemy airspace during the Gulf War" but does anyone know what she (or a woman her age/rank) could have been doing exactly? I did a bit of googling and found some stuff about the role of women in the Gulf, like them flying helicopters, recon aircraft and even participating in combat but I would appreciate it if someone could give me a (credible) example of what her experience could entail, especially since she doesn't seem to have wings...

Oh lordy, but hasn't this been a can of worms for fandom since... well, always. Beyond what you've googled, not sure what someone can tell you, unless it's from personal expereince. Have you read about Major Marie T. Rossi? She flew a Chinook helicopter carrying supplies -ammo, gas - to the ground troops. She was also the first female pilot to die flying in a combat zone.

There's a... I think fairly well regarded fic that covers Carter's gulf war time called 1991. Not sure what amount of research etc was put into it and how accurate it is.

I think the general consensus is that Carter didn't fly combat missions, but rather supply runs, etc. There are a lot of blog posts and whatnot analyzing this issue.

[fems]

Oh lordy, but hasn't this been a can of worms for fandom since... well, always. Beyond what you've googled, not sure what someone can tell you, unless it's from personal expereince. Have you read about Major Marie T. Rossi? She flew a Chinook helicopter carrying supplies -ammo, gas - to the ground troops. She was also the first female pilot to die flying in a combat zone.

There's a... I think fairly well regarded fic that covers Carter's gulf war time called 1991. Not sure what amount of research etc was put into it and how accurate it is.

I think the general consensus is that Carter didn't fly combat missions, but rather supply runs, etc. There are a lot of blog posts and whatnot analyzing this issue.

I'm aware of it [Sam's record] being an issue, although I wasn't around when it first arose but I've heard some stuff about it since I joined here. Plus, it kind of struck me as odd too considering she's supposed to be from (December) 1968 according to prop canon from Entity and the number of hours she supposedly flew during the Gulf, not to mention the fact that she's a woman and thus her assignments would have been limited.

However, I haven't really taken the time to seriously look into it and only did a quick Google search just now prior to my previous post to see if my concerns were valid. I was kinda hoping someone else with more knowledge about the USAF and the Gulf War specifically could help me out and/or steer me in the right direction.

I haven't read about the major (yet), but I did save a few bookmarks (dealing with the role of women in combat during the Gulf War) for later reading. I'll make a note of it for when I have time to do more thorough research. The fic you mentioned is one I've read before but I always try to get my information from actual (valid) sources rather than blindly take something someone else wrote in a fanfiction for truth, even if they claim the events are based on RL events.

Anyway, I'd appreciate any information and/or links for further research.

[Skydiver]

There's a popular train of thought that she could have been in an AWACS plane - aerial radar. Which would have counted as time in enemy air space even if they weren't in combat.

as to the wings, well jack made himself a pilot (actually RDA made jack a pilot) and jack didn't have any wings either.

[Nikki Alexander]

This is a bit of a stupid question and I feel a bit silly asking, but would say a guy in the Air Force wear his dress blues to his wedding, or can they only be worn for certain important military functions.

[SamShipper]

This is a bit of a stupid question and I feel a bit silly asking, but would say a guy in the Air Force wear his dress blues to his wedding, or can they only be worn for certain important military functions.

It's his choice. He can certainly wear it if he wants to. My brother did.

Btw. it's called Mess Dress for the Air Force, but it is dark blue Tbh. I don't think it looks good, but I guess it depends on the wearer

[Nikki Alexander]

^ Ah I didn't know it was called that, you learn something new everyday. And for a later fic idea I'm going to have a character wear his, mainly because he hasn't anything else. But thank you.

[sbz]

I'm aware of it [Sam's record] being an issue, although I wasn't around when it first arose but I've heard some stuff about it since I joined here. Plus, it kind of struck me as odd too considering she's supposed to be from (December) 1968 according to prop canon from Entity and the number of hours she supposedly flew during the Gulf, not to mention the fact that she's a woman and thus her assignments would have been limited.

However, I haven't really taken the time to seriously look into it and only did a quick Google search just now prior to my previous post to see if my concerns were valid. I was kinda hoping someone else with more knowledge about the USAF and the Gulf War specifically could help me out and/or steer me in the right direction.

Anyway, I'd appreciate any information and/or links for further research.

Women were there, and women were pilots. It's a fact. The line between "combat" and "non-combat" was so thin as to be almost nonexistent. Note that the quote didn't say Carter was a fighter pilot (a position women didn't hold until 1993, but women were other types of pilots before then), just that she logged time in enemy airspace. That's a key distinction.

A few articles about women in the gulf:

http://expertscolumn.com/content/mil...rsian-gulf-war

http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/06/1...tary-gulf.html

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...438760,00.html (this one's really interesting, she was a flight surgeon and held as a POW; some interesting thoughts on gender)

As for the issue of Carter's age and the lack of wings. My rule of thumb is to not give props (their presence or absence), whether physical items or screen inserts etc, much credence. Props are often put in without consultation with the writers or continuity trackers (if there even is such a person, which I doubt).

Inconsistencies in the *pilot* episode, whether in props, dialogue, or later bedrock mythology, I also ignore with absolute conviction. If people are going to get all up in arms about a lack of wings, they also need to get up in arms over the fact Apophis, Teal'c, etc left the SGC through an incoming wormhole in the opening scene, no redial needed. So, this whole issue of Carter's gulf time, wings, etc... really that whole boardoom scene... I don't spend much time thinking about. It's all in the category of "writers figuring out what they're doing." For me, not much in the pilot beyond basic events has any bearing on the rest of the show.

Fignewton does a great canon vs fanon series of posts in his/her blog. The issue of Carter's age and Gulf experience are both discussed here.

ETA: I was thinking about the pilot after I wrote this and started to wonder if they maybe did redial through some magical means/technology Apophis had (and we never saw again). It was one situation or the other. Still, end result is the pilot showing something that isn't borne out to be the way things work in the subsequent 10 seasons. Thus, suspect. Might have to crack open the DVD to see for sure, cause now I can't stop thinking about it!

[BruTak]

I've always thought that Carter's "100 hours in enemy airspace" could be put down to her being a a search and rescue pilot.

[iiradned]

That's pretty much what I thought. How about 20 years ago?

Well, speaking totally out of my ass, about the most recent this could be attempted would somewhere in 1983-86. Government agencies started entering data into computer records in 1970s and by 1983-86 practically all new entries into government records were both on computers as well as paper. Of course, retrieving the relevant data would still take time as a human being would enter a search query into the computer and all that would do is tell said human which reel-to-reel tape to retrieve, insert it into a machine and only then would the data be retrieved and printed out.

Things like birth records would be easiest to fudge as those would be kept at the county level and not centralized. The key thing would be a person's Social Security Number. The federal government started computerizing SSNs in the 1960s, what with the number of checks issued every month and all of it computer generated.

If one could find a birth certificate of the appropriate age, gender and ethnicity without a corresponding SSN that'd be the way to go.

[Ikorni]

I've always thought that Carter's "100 hours in enemy airspace" could be put down to her being a a search and rescue pilot.

That's a great possibility. Don't know why I didn't think of this.