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[Rachel500]

So finally caught up. So, onto the listener question: do you ship? What do you think romantic relationships add to or take away from Stargate?

I guess this is the moment I stand up and say my name is Rachel500 and I am a shipper.

The ship is not the reason I watch Stargate. I fell in love with SG1 as a team first but certainly for me the Sam/Jack arc has contributed hugely to my enjoyment of SG1. I am completely ambivalent about the ships on Atlantis.

What do I think ships add/take away? Hmmm.

I've always used an ice-cream analogy to describe ship in relation to Stargate. Stargate primarily delivers sci-fi/action/adventure shows revolving around a set of characters in a team who share a bond with each other. That's it's vanilla version. That's what I primarily expect to see when I watch.

Romance is like an accompanying chocolate sauce on top of that vanilla ice-cream.

Now, some shippers undoubtedly would prefer Stargate to be chocolate ice-cream and perhaps those labelled as anti-shippers/noromos would prefer their ice-cream always plain but I happen to like a little chocolate sauce now and again with my ice-cream. Just enough to enhance the ice-cream but not so much that it drowns the ice-cream completely.

There does need to be a balance and I wouldn't say the producers/writers have always achieved it. Take McKay and Keller: I thought it worked really well as an element within The Last Man but in Brain Storm I just thought it was too much. Same with Chimera; I thought the Sam/Pete/Jack arc was highlighted far too much to the detriment of the Daniel/Osiris powerplay plotline but loved the underlying Sam/Jack dynamic that was highlighted in Beneath the Surface.

But why do I want chocolate sauce now and again? Well, for me it's the characters and their relationships with each other (be it friendship or other) that engage me in a show.

A romantic relationship between characters can bring out facets of that character that we wouldn't see in a friendship environment; it creates another layer of angst and drama when one is in danger; it creates a new motivation for the character's actions and decisions.

Another reason for me is that I would find it completely unrealistic that over a significant period of time (and in the case of SG1, 10 years) that the characters wouldn't have a romantic liaison or two either with each other or outside of the team.

Romance is a natural part of our existence and connecting with someone on a romantic level (whoever that is) does affect the choices we make as individuals. The ramifactions and impact of that can be fascinating. For example, without Teal'c's thirst to revenge Shon'ac, he would never have been caught and brainwashed; Daniel's search for Sha're was the underlying motivation for the character right up until she died.

So, for me, a little chocolate sauce now and again keeps it interesting.

[Spinobreaker]

i forgot to mention.
Theres 2 basic types of ships,
1 - One that happens over time, IE Sam + Jack
2 - One thats forced... Keller and Rodney.... hell even Rodney and Katie Brown. I got nothing against either pairing but it jsut didn;t feel organic. Out of nowhere rodney has a GF... i would never believe it and still dont lol. But i slowly grew to accept it

[David]

If you would like your comments to make it on air, please keep them succinct otherwise chances are they'll get chopped down to size. We've gotten a message or two in the past about how a person felt that their opinion was altered when we took the first paragraph and omitted the second, for instance, so ... anyway ... keep it succinct

[KezatheAscended]

I am no crazy shipper...but I do enjoy romantic relationships with my scifi and fantasy. I think any good science fiction or fantasy story needs one...and all the great ones do.

I do believe that unlike a few others popular scifi series, the romances in SG-1 and Atlantis, are not, and should not be put into the front of the plot. Stargate is more so a plot driven story than ever it was character driven, and because of that, the romances should be pushed to the foreground.

Also, without romantic relationships, you can't make episodes like BSG's Unfinished Business . I cannot imagine such an episode in SG-1 or Atlantis right now, not without the deep emotional bonds between the characters.

Very well said...I totally agree with this. And I also need to add Farscape to the same category. Both BSG and Farscape were highly character driven stories, even if they were long arc episodes. The relationships between Apollo and Starbuck, and John and Aeryn were main focuses of the show. Those love stories needed to be right in the audience's face because this was how the story moved from one point to another, and how each character changed and grew, from the interactions between each other more than the action around them. And those interactions, became weaved into the plot of the episode and the season.

We would not have seen many of the storylines in both of those shows if it was not for the relationships created.

One of my favorite scenes in all of BSG has to do with one of those love stories...when Helo has to kill Sharon in Season 4 episode "Rapture". I will always remember that scene, and Helo and Sharon were one of the main reasons I kept watching the show. I LOVED thier story.

We don't watch Stargate for scenes like that, when in Farscape and BSG, we expected them. That's the kind of stories those shows were about. Stargate was about alien races, cool space battles and crazy science. For the most part anyway. Although it would have been amazing to see more scenes like the one with Helo and Sharon...like is in The Shrine...or Broken Ties...I think some would seem out of place.

Although I love the little hints every now and then about the romances, I was always worried when it became an A story. For me, the McKay/Keller story was almost too lame in the end. It was only some of the wonderful character moment scenes in a few of the episodes...like in The Shrine...that saved it for me.

If Stargate Universe is going to be a highly character driven story like BSG or Farscape...then I will be expected a love story in there somewhere. Come on, people trapped on a ship...something is bound to happen.


Oh...and just to clarify...if we are talking fan fiction, that's a whole different story...then I'm a John/OC shipper all the way...

[TameFarrar]

If you would like your comments to make it on air, please keep them succinct otherwise chances are they'll get chopped down to size. We've gotten a message or two in the past about how a person felt that their opinion was altered when we took the first paragraph and omitted the second, for instance, so ... anyway ... keep it succinct

I will chime in to say I read everything in this thread regardless if it makes on air so if folks don't care about *all* of their comment making it on air. Your thoughts and comments are pretty interesting Hopefully a few other members think so as well and let you know somehow even if they don't respond in this thread.

[TameFarrar]

there's a deleted scene from trio where Sam mentions shes going out with someone in Washington, jacks name isn't said but its implied
so yeh check it out

I don't have the DVD for this and I saw this scene so I don't believe it is a deleted scene Its one of the reasons I thought the PTB felt they had been giving beginnings of closure to the S&J story

[Rachel500]

I don't have the DVD for this and I saw this scene so I don't believe it is a deleted scene Its one of the reasons I thought the PTB felt they had been giving beginnings of closure to the S&J story

It is a deleted scene for Trio but it was added as an extra on the DVD.

JM was keen to include a Sam/Jack scene hence it was written and filmed (and he hinted heavily about it in his blog). According to MG who talks about it on the DVD, it was deleted for 'franchise' reasons when Trio ran long.

[TameFarrar]

It is a deleted scene for Trio but it was added as an extra on the DVD.

JM was keen to include a Sam/Jack scene hence it was written and filmed (and he hinted heavily about it in his blog). According to MG who talks about it on the DVD, it was deleted for 'franchise' reasons when Trio ran long.

Then how did I see it ??? cause I definitely remember it..it was in

Spoiler:

the observance van if I am not mistaken and he (Agent Barrett) asks her out and she says...something to the effect of "I'm not available"

I don't have the DVDs for that season so I have no extras to even see

[Rachel500]

Then how did I see it ??? cause I definitely remember it..it was in

Spoiler:

the observance van if I am not mistaken and he (Agent Barrett) asks her out and she says...something to the effect of "I'm not available"

I don't have the DVDs for that season so I have no extras to even see

You're thinking of SG1's S9 episode Ex Deus Machina where Sam responds to Barrett when he says she's single again post Pete break-up with 'Not Exactly' and smug face.

The deleted scene was from SGA's S4 episode Trio and happened between Sam and Keller. Sam responds to Keller's query about dating with a comment that she's seeing an older guy in Washington, that their relationship is long distance and that may change when he retires, but deflects when Keller presses her for who. If you ask on the Sam/Jack thread I'm sure someone will post the transcript again or possibly a link...

*realises she's given away just how much of a geeky shipper she is*

[TameFarrar]

You're thinking of SG1's S9 episode Ex Deus Machina where Sam responds to Barrett when he says she's single again post Pete break-up with 'Not Exactly' and smug face.

The deleted scene was from SGA's S4 episode Trio and happened between Sam and Keller. Sam responds to Keller's query about dating with a comment that she's seeing an older guy in Washington, that their relationship is long distance and that may change when he retires, but deflects when Keller presses her for who. If you ask on the Sam/Jack thread I'm sure someone will post the transcript again or possibly a link...

*realises she's given away just how much of a geeky shipper she is*

(((((((hugs Geeky Shipper)))) Hi my name is TameFarrar and I am a geeky shipper too

Thanks for that info I had no idea about that one ......*makes notes*

[Ramses818]

I personally don't care much for relationships in action shows. If the relationship is built in from the beginning then I understand. But, I prefer them not included. I don't think the S/J relationship added or detracted from the show.

The Keller/McKay relationship was not good. Maybe it had to do with how both characters seemed not to have the slightest idea of social interaction (McKay being the super genius who probably never got a date and Keller being the Med. student who didn't have time to go out on dates).

However, if the relationship would work with the preexisting personalities go for it. And only if the relationship is to the point that they would do things that are out of character to protect the other.

But on screen kissing, or sexual innuendo, or sexually explicit illusions are not needed. Relationships can exist without it getting all mushy or almost X rated on syndicated TV. Who cares if we know how many bases they stole on one specific night.

For example,

Spoiler:

in DS9 there was the Worf/Dax relationship we knew what was going on but we didn't need to see in every episode them take their clothes off.

[Petra]

This Week's Listener Question: Do you "ship?" What do you think romantic relationships add to – or take away from – Stargate?

I'm late, as usual.

Anyway, about this week's listener question; do I ship? It depends. In general I'm a non-shipper, I don't care one way or the other about who pairs up with whom in tv series, albeit I'm not adverse to the idea.

However, I definitely ship S/J in SG-1 (and interestingly enough it's the only pairing I ship on any series ever). I loved how slowly and naturally S/J ship was developed in the first 6 seasons. However I think that introduction of Pete put too much emphasis on this particular storyline; till season 7 S/J ship was subtle and in the background while in seasons 7-8 it seemed like the writers started to write it deliberately and unfortunately they didn't do a good job.

I've never watched SG-1 solely for S/J (I became a shipper sometime in season 3); I'm pretty much a team fangirl and what makes this particular ship great for me is that it adds to the team interactions. The very first S/T friendship scene in season 6 "Paradise Lost" was in response to Sam worrying over Jack's disappearance. Great Daniel/Jack scene in D&C happened because of the ship etc.

So to sum it up: S/J ship on SG-1 makes the characters more human and realistic, adds to them more layers and enriches team dynamics.

As for SGA I'm a non shipper, as I said. But to be honest I never saw any ship between any of the characters until McKeller and while I think this ship is important because it's the first relationship between the leads that had a definite closure in the SG franchise overall it was handled very, very badly.

[kthomassg]

I don't watch my sci-fi shows (SG-1, SGA, X-Files, Buffy and more) for the relationships per se, but those relationships help for a more well rounded character and helps the viewers come to understand the characters more.
I also don't think that the show's PTB should make the relationships they've created another character in the show either. Those relationships should always be a "B" or "C" story. I think that is one of the things that started to kill the X-Files in the end and it is something that SG-1 did well with Jack and Sam. Always kept it in the background and also kept the fans wanting more instead of giving them too much.

[shinykat]

Do you "ship?" What do you think romantic relationships add to – or take away from – Stargate?

I have to agree with what many are saying, that if the ships are well written and natural it only serves to enhance the storyline, making the characters more real and thus cementing our attachment to them. I don't see how a show, no matter its genre, can continue for 10 years without ships, then its just repetitive. If there are friendships, then why not relationships? It doesn't have to dominate or change the show, merely enhance.

My one problem/rant about ships in Stargate is that when introduced by the creative team, it seemed as if they then did not know what to do with them. For example with Daniel/Vala in Unending, the resolution for their relationship was first simply sleeping together, no attachments. Only after the actors voiced their concerns that this was out of character did we get the revised scene (thank goodness!). Its almost like they aren't sure how to write the ships, what goes into a real relationship. "Oh look I've created this ship but now what do I do with it? Ahh! Uhmm...ignore it for 3 seasons! Or just throw it over there, maybe people will forget about it."

But that's just my opinion...

Thanks for the podcasts guys!

[Darren]

Episode #51 is now available!

Trade in your space guns and alien ships for flowers and chocolate! This week GateWorld Forum’s Tame Farrar joins David and Darren to talk about romance and relationships in the Stargate universe. Do romantic relationships between main characters add to the show, or detract from it? How much is too much? And do relationships on the show require a “happy ending?” Shippers especially won’t want to miss this discussion about a major fandom phenomenon.

Also this week:

Stargate News! The latest news from the world of Stargate

GateWorld Features! What's new on the site?

Interview Preview! Hear a preview of our interview with long-time producer John G. Lenic

This Week's Listener Question: What is your favorite episode from Stargate SG-1 Season Seven, and why do you think it’s the best?

CALL US! You can call the hotline and leave us a voicemail any time, day or night. Give us your thoughts on this week's listener question, leave feedback on the podcast itself, or talk about anything Stargate-related you want.

Dial: 616-712-1647 (long distance rates apply)

Thanks to everyone for listening and contributing to the podcast!