When the bloody hell did Carson...

[Opener]

Right. Clone Carson had different memories from his experiences as Michael's captive, making him a different person from the Crason who wasn't Michael's captive. But he also had the memories from before that, which allowed him to see that sometimes military protocol takes precedent over your personal feelings. Like when you're fighting for your life against insanely aggressive hybrids even a mad genius couldn't control, say.

[ciannwn]

He's not the same man as the real carson.

In 'Before I Sleep' we learned that everyone in the Atlantis expedition was killed except for Weir. Weir is found as a very old woman and she meets up with the changed timeline Wier. Both Weirs had the same memories up to the point where they arrived on Atlantis. After that their experiences were completely different. Which one of the two is the 'real' Weir? Are the other members of the Atlantis expedition the 'real' thing?

The same kind of thing applies to everyone but Sheppard after he changed the timeline in 'The Last Man'.

[Bytor]

Things change.

[Flyboy]

In 'Before I Sleep' we learned that everyone in the Atlantis expedition was killed except for Weir. Weir is found as a very old woman and she meets up with the changed timeline Wier. Both Weirs had the same memories up to the point where they arrived on Atlantis. After that their experiences were completely different. Which one of the two is the 'real' Weir? Are the other members of the Atlantis expedition the 'real' thing?

The same kind of thing applies to everyone but Sheppard after he changed the timeline in 'The Last Man'.

I disagree.

What you're talking about are timelines, and even though the timeline may have been altered, they are all naturally born people, they have been the only ones to ever exist in THAT timeline.

Beckett is not the real Beckett, and it annoys me that Shep and Co are so willing to forget the fact that Beckett has died. He is no more. They don't care because they're thinking about themselves. They can talk to him and have his friendship once more, but he's an artificial person, and the real Beckett is in heaven/hell/limbo/reincarnated as a bug/whatever. Point is, they're forgetting that the man born on earth decades before is actually gone.

[Jackie]

In 'Before I Sleep' we learned that everyone in the Atlantis expedition was killed except for Weir. Weir is found as a very old woman and she meets up with the changed timeline Wier. Both Weirs had the same memories up to the point where they arrived on Atlantis. After that their experiences were completely different. Which one of the two is the 'real' Weir? Are the other members of the Atlantis expedition the 'real' thing?

The same kind of thing applies to everyone but Sheppard after he changed the timeline in 'The Last Man'.

Two totally different things. An alternate reality still has an non genetically altered and manipulated character.

Clone carson is a copy to begin with. Micheal only gave him what Micheal wanted to give him PLUS he installed extra features on the new carson model like mind control...better gas mileage...new hair style...chubby cheeks...love handles...ect.

I disagree.

What you're talking about are timelines, and even though the timeline may have been altered, they are all naturally born people, they have been the only ones to ever exist in THAT timeline.

Beckett is not the real Beckett, and it annoys me that Shep and Co are so willing to forget the fact that Beckett has died. He is no more. They don't care because they're thinking about themselves. They can talk to him and have his friendship once more, but he's an artificial person, and the real Beckett is in heaven/hell/limbo/reincarnated as a bug/whatever. Point is, they're forgetting that the man born on earth decades before is actually gone.

exactly

[Bytor]

I disagree.

What you're talking about are timelines, and even though the timeline may have been altered, they are all naturally born people, they have been the only ones to ever exist in THAT timeline.

Beckett is not the real Beckett, and it annoys me that Shep and Co are so willing to forget the fact that Beckett has died. He is no more. They don't care because they're thinking about themselves. They can talk to him and have his friendship once more, but he's an artificial person, and the real Beckett is in heaven/hell/limbo/reincarnated as a bug/whatever. Point is, they're forgetting that the man born on earth decades before is actually gone.

What are they supposed to do?, treat the clone like garbage and not be his friend.. I REALLY DOUBT they forgot the real Beckett died. They are just treating his clone like a "real" person.

If YOU were the clone would you want people to treat you like 3rd rate piece of scum?

[Flyboy]

What are they supposed to do?, treat the clone like garbage and not be his friend.. I REALLY DOUBT they forgot the real Beckett died. They are just treating his clone like a "real" person.

If YOU were the clone would you want people to treat you like 3rd rate piece of scum?

I see where you're coming from, and it's difficult, that's the point, we SHOULD have seen some of this conflict in the characters. "It's him but... it's not him... what do I do?"

[tombombadil]

he was scared out of his mind and he's not the same carson ....

what are you talking about, the original carson was kinda a wimp, and so is this one...

[jyh]

I see where you're coming from, and it's difficult, that's the point, we SHOULD have seen some of this conflict in the characters. "It's him but... it's not him... what do I do?"

They've dealt with that, and processed it. It's been months since the Clone Carson has been around and they're dealing with it. We don't have to see evidence of it (of them dealing with it and debating to themselves) everyday.

[Mitchell82]

well he's not the same carson. he's just a copy made by Micheal. Carson wouldn't be standing in a corner hiding like a scared little girl either.

I disagree. He may be a clone but he still is Carson and he has realized that in certain situations he needs to back down and let the guys or girls with guns handle things.

[Flyboy]

They've dealt with that, and processed it. It's been months since the Clone Carson has been around and they're dealing with it. We don't have to see evidence of it (of them dealing with it and debating to themselves) everyday.

No... but I saw no evidence at the time either.

[ciannwn]

they are all naturally born people, they have been the only ones to ever exist in THAT timeline.

What about Weir, though? There were two of them in the SGA series timeline which was there in Season One. Even though they were both naturally born they, like all parallel reality versions of the characters, are copies as far as their bodies, brains and brain functioning are concerned. None of Asgard we saw on the show had been naturally born. When their bodies wore out their memories etc. were uploaded into cloned, blank slate boies.

They can talk to him and have his friendship once more, but he's an artificial person, and the real Beckett is in heaven/hell/limbo/reincarnated as a bug/whatever. Point is, they're forgetting that the man born on earth decades before is actually gone.

Has there been any indication in the Stargate universe that there's an immortal component which survives the death of the body? In 'Ripple Effect' we saw multiple versions of the SG1 team because a number of SG1 teams from parallel realities ended up in the SG1 reality we watched on TV. In one scene there were a lot of Sams trying to solve the problem. Which one of them had Sam Carter's immortal soul?

The materialistic view is that a 'person' is the product of his/her brain so when the brain dies he/she ceases to be because there is no such thing as an immortal soul.. Some transhumanists dream of having their brain functions recreated on a computer. As far as they're concerned a copy of themselves would be them for all intents and purposes.

A Stargate character who believed in a soul which went to an afterlife and/or got reincarnated probably wouldn't regard the cloned Beckett as being a real Beckett. He/she might well ponder the philosophical problem concerning souls and umpteen versions of him/herself from umpteen parallel realities if he/she were aware of such things, though. A materialistically minded Stargate character might well see the cloned Beckett on the lines of "Identical brain and brain function. Cloned brain had original's memories installed and is now functioning to produce 'more Beckett' in exactly the same way as the original brain would have.What difference does it make really?"

[Flyboy]

What about Weir, though? There were two of them in the SGA series timeline which was there in Season One. Even though they were both naturally born they, like all parallel reality versions of the characters, are copies as far as their bodies, brains and brain functioning are concerned. None of Asgard we saw on the show had been naturally born. When their bodies wore out their memories etc. were uploaded into cloned, blank slate boies.



Has there been any indication in the Stargate universe that there's an immortal component which survives the death of the body? In 'Ripple Effect' we saw multiple versions of the SG1 team because a number of SG1 teams from parallel realities ended up in the SG1 reality we watched on TV. In one scene there were a lot of Sam's trying to solve the problem. Which one of them had Sam Carter's immortal soul?

The materialistic view is that a 'person' is the product of his/her brain so when the brain dies he/she ceases to be because there is no such thing as an immortal soul.. Some transhumanists dream of having their brain functions recreated on a computer. As far as they're concerned a copy of themselves would be them for all intents and purposes.

A Stargate character who believed in a soul which went to an afterlife and/or got reincarnated probably wouldn't regard the cloned Beckett as being a real Beckett. He/she might well ponder the philosophical problem concerning souls and umpteen versions of him/herself from umpteen parallel realities if he/she were aware of such things, though. A materialistically minded Stargate character might well see the cloned Beckett on the lines of "Identical brain and brain function. Cloned brain had original's memories installed and is now functioning to produce 'more Beckett' in exactly the same way as the original brain would have.What difference does it make really?"

Well, that's kinda why I said "whatever" after the heaven/hell, because the only point that I was trying to make was that he was gone. Moved on etc.

Weir was an alternate reality Weir, point is, had original Beckett not died, and clone Beckett was found, would he have been treated like the real one? Certainly not.

[Bytor]

I see where you're coming from, and it's difficult, that's the point, we SHOULD have seen some of this conflict in the characters. "It's him but... it's not him... what do I do?"

I think we have seen some of them on screen talk about it.. not alot. I agree... there could have been more.. but I guess they wanted to use the screen time on other stuff. Maybe Stargate Universe (being more "character driven") will be more to your liking.. for example.. they would have dealt with this situation alot more..if it were SGU... maybe..... in my opinion...

[BubblingOverWithIdeas]

In one scene there were a lot of Sams trying to solve the problem. Which one of them had Sam Carter's immortal soul?

They each had a different soul, being identical but different people.

Anyways, Clone Carson is not the same man as Original Carson, but it's unfair to call him a "cheap knock-off". He's equally as real. The only thing that confuses the issue and makes them different from normal identical twins is the copied memories. This makes their personalities incredibly similar, but the fact that they are separate entities (is this the Uncertainty Principle or something?) means they will never 100% the same.

To address the main point, Carson knows now when to shut up and do as the sargeant says and when to argue.