Whispers & Stargate Fandom / Unusual Reception

[JohnRico]

It is called opinion. Get used to it. It is as simple as that

[Col.Foley]

The vast, gigantic, rather large, GAPING argument, is not whether "Whispers" advances the overall story arc of Atlantis or not. It is not whether "Whispers" is a "mythology" episode or a "bottle" show. "The Seed" was a good example of a bottle show.

The argument is that "Whispers", in general, was just plain BAD writing. Not only was it bad writing, it was full of horror cliches...and what after all, is Stargate: Atlantis? Horror, or Sci-Fi? Sci-Fi Horror like "Aliens?"

I think not.

The biggest reason they are going the horror route is because some idiot in charge thinks they have to appeal to the younger, more hip, audience...people who are not normally fans of the Sci-Fi (or of the SG1 or SGA) franchises.

Indeed, the entire Sci-Fi channel is going in that direction. Why not take Atlantis there as well? The series is canceled so who cares right? Maybe they'll get some of those teenage dollars from the teens buying whatever advertisers are advertising while crap shows like "Whispers" are playing.

However, it's not even that the horror genre playing out on SGA with all the horror cliches possible is the main issue here. The writing concerning the all-female team was extremely bad too.

There are definitely good reasons to complain here.

Whether or not "Whispers" was a bottle show or a mythology episode, is not one of them.

It was a bad episode.
But one, it was written Months and weeks before the writers even knew it was going to be cancelled, so they are not milking it for all its worth, as you seem to be saying. And two, if you were right, then there would be many more horror episodes in this show upcoming, and there are not, and nor are there an previous to this, with the possible exception of Conversion. I was a little worried about this when "uninvited" and "Morpheous" played back to back. But then it went back to buisness as usaul. Which will happen after this episode.
As far as I can tell there is no major shift to make Atlantis more horrific.

[dasNdanger]

Cheers, very kind of you to say! And yeah, we're definitely on the same page here. Couldn't agree more.

I have to admit to poo-pooing an episode or two because things weren't handled the way I wanted them to be. You mentioned Broken Ties - that was one of them. I actually loved the episode while I watched it, but was very disappointed with the ending - or, more specifically, with the lack of any real revelation about the Wraith's motive. But that's just a personal thing with me, and I know it, Wraith devotee that I am. My immediate reaction was purely a bit of knee-jerking...I eventually got over myself.

But I'll use that episode as an example. Overall, it was very well done, and well written (except the Wraith bit - which I will address later). The acting - all the way round - was spot on. I LOVED the Wraith (Tyler McClendon) and was totally impressed with Jason's handling of his role. The fighting scene at the end was very intense and executed very well. Woolsey was a hoot! There was a nice balance of humor with this episode - a nice offset to the overall intensity of what was going down with Ronon.

I can see that all now. But I was initially blinded to it all because I really hoped that we'd have a clear answer as to why Wraith want/need human worshippers, besides the whole 'we're a buncha life-sucking control freaks' thing. I wanted a real answer to 'why do the Wraith desire worship from their food' - what need (socially, emotionally) does it fill in their society?

I did not get that answer, and doubt I ever will now - so I'm left to make it up on my own. THIS was the only real disappointment in the episode, and yet...at first I nearly allowed it to destroy the entire show for me.

So, I do understand why SOME people have a problem with an episode now and then...or an aspect of an episode...but for nearly the same group of people to have problems with nearly - if not all - episodes...well...that just seems like a purposeful undermining of the show, and the overall enjoyment that others are experiencing from the episodes. It's the whole, "I'm not happy so I want to make everyone miserable along with me" syndrome common to such fandoms.

I just hope I don't ever find myself totally caught up in doing the same thing. I think I've gotten over most of my misgivings...and your comments here have inspired me to fight any negative tendencies I may still have. Uless, of course...they kill Todd. THEN I'm gonna raise holy hell!

das

[Klinjon]

It is called opinion. Get used to it. It is as simple as that

People having opinions is not what I have a problem with (obviously, that would be obscene). It is the manner in which those opinions are presented by some members of the fandom who comprise this forum that I disagree with. I elaborate this point in almost all of my posts in this thread so far.

[Klinjon]

I have to admit to poo-pooing an episode or two because things weren't handled the way I wanted them to be. You mentioned Broken Ties - that was one of them. I actually loved the episode while I watched it, but was very disappointed with the ending - or, more specifically, with the lack of any real revelation about the Wraith's motive. But that's just a personal thing with me, and I know it, Wraith devotee that I am. My immediate reaction was purely a bit of knee-jerking...I eventually got over myself.

But I'll use that episode as an example. Overall, it was very well done, and well written (except the Wraith bit - which I will address later). The acting - all the way round - was spot on. I LOVED the Wraith (Tyler McClendon) and was totally impressed with Jason's handling of his role. The fighting scene at
the end was very intense and executed very well. Woolsey was a hoot! There was a nice balance of humor with this episode - a nice offset to the overall intensity of what was going down with Ronon.

I can see that all now. But I was initially blinded to it all because I really hoped that we'd have a clear answer as to why Wraith want/need human worshippers, besides the whole 'we're a buncha life-sucking control freaks' thing. I wanted a real answer to 'why do the Wraith desire worship from their food' - what need (socially, emotionally) does it fill in their society?

I did not get that answer, and doubt I ever will now - so I'm left to make it up on my own. THIS was the only real disappointment in the episode, and yet...at first I nearly allowed it to destroy the entire show for me.

So, I do understand why SOME people have a problem with an episode now and then...or an aspect of an episode...but for nearly the same group of people to have problems with nearly - if not all - episodes...well...that just seems like a purposeful undermining of the show, and the overall enjoyment that others are experiencing from the episodes. It's the whole, "I'm not happy so I want to make everyone miserable along with me" syndrome common to such fandoms.

I just hope I don't ever find myself totally caught up in doing the same thing. I think I've gotten over most of my misgivings...and your comments here have inspired me to fight any negative tendencies I may still have. Uless, of course...they kill Todd. THEN I'm gonna raise holy hell!

das

Agreed 100%. I find it fascinating when people allow an air of negativity to affect their enjoyment of a show so profusely. And the manner in which some people complain about certain episodes is mind boggling. They don't like one crucial part of it, so everything, literally everything about it becomes terrible in their eyes. I will never understand that.

I've been reading this forum since the beginning of the year, and only now do I feel passionately enough about everything that I have said and discussed to actually sign up and make a thread about it... But with such blanket negativity (there's that phrase again!) bouncing around the boards, I didn't feel as though I could let my voice be heard without suffering the scorn of the fandom.

And yeah Todd is awesome, killing him off would be a shame. He's a big part of the mid season two parter, which also features Daniel Jackson (my own favorite character).

[Col.Foley]

Agreed 100%. I find it fascinating when people allow an air of negativity to affect their enjoyment of a show so profusely. And the manner in which some people complain about certain episodes is mind boggling. They don't like one crucial part of it, so everything, literally everything about it becomes terrible in their eyes. I will never understand that.

I've been reading this forum since the beginning of the year, and only now do I feel passionately enough about everything that I have said and discussed to actually sign up and make a thread about it... But with such blanket negativity (there's that phrase again!) bouncing around the boards, I didn't feel as though I could let my voice be heard without suffering the scorn of the fandom.

And yeah Todd is awesome, killing him off would be a shame. He's a big part of the mid season two parter, which also features Daniel Jackson (my own favorite character).

And even I have nice things to say about that episode..even when I did not like it.

[JohnRico]

Why does it seem to be required for fans to write 10,000 page books in detailed explanations on why they don't like an episode ? If you are not happy with with how things are then maybe start your own forum or find a forum where this is part of the rules. Whining about something like this is silly

[Klinjon]

Why does it seem to be required for fans to write 10,000 page books in detailed explanations on why they don't like an episode ? If you are not happy with with how things are then maybe start your own forum or find a forum where this is part of the rules. Whining about something like this is silly

Where else would you like us to write our "10,000 page books" on "Whispers", or in the case of this thread, "Whispers" and a broader issue regarding fandom negativity, other than the dedicated "Whispers" episode thread within the Stargate Atlantis Season 5 forum? And why exactly should those of us who aren't burdened with the need to be incessently negative (for reasons that have been discussed in plentiful supply) leave and set up our own forums?! Is that so the Gateworld forum becomes a negative only place?! Where lengthly discussion isn't acceptable?!

...

I think I've found some flaws in the logic behind your comment...

[JohnRico]

There are threads for negative & positive things to say. Starting your own thread when these posts can go in there can also be considered spamming & oh boo hoo you found a flaw in my argument & well guess what your spamming if you want to get technical. Theres a reason why those threads were made to avoid threads like this

[dasNdanger]

The vast, gigantic, rather large, GAPING argument, is not whether "Whispers" advances the overall story arc of Atlantis or not. It is not whether "Whispers" is a "mythology" episode or a "bottle" show. "The Seed" was a good example of a bottle show.

If I'm understanding the definition of 'bottle show' here, The Seed was anything but. It advances the Wraith storyline, and some aspects of what happened in that episode may play a role in the future, as was hinted at by Mallozzi when he said he could not answer specific questions about Wraith tech and hive ship development/intelligence at this time, indicating that such answers would be spoilers for an upcoming episode. The Seed was all about the continued development and understanding of the Wraith - the show's main villain, if I recall correctly. It may have more meaning down the road than we realize now.

The argument is that "Whispers", in general, was just plain BAD writing. Not only was it bad writing, it was full of horror cliches...and what after all, is Stargate: Atlantis? Horror, or Sci-Fi? Sci-Fi Horror like "Aliens?"

I think not.

The biggest reason they are going the horror route is because some idiot in charge thinks they have to appeal to the younger, more hip, audience...people who are not normally fans of the Sci-Fi (or of the SG1 or SGA) franchises.

Indeed, the entire Sci-Fi channel is going in that direction. Why not take Atlantis there as well? The series is canceled so who cares right? Maybe they'll get some of those teenage dollars from the teens buying whatever advertisers are advertising while crap shows like "Whispers" are playing.

However, it's not even that the horror genre playing out on SGA with all the horror cliches possible is the main issue here. The writing concerning the all-female team was extremely bad too.

There are definitely good reasons to complain here.

Whether or not "Whispers" was a bottle show or a mythology episode, is not one of them.

I respectfully disagree. Atlantis has ALWAYS been about horror - toned-down horror, but horror nonetheless.

For instance, these are SGA concepts or episodes that fit the horror genre, some closely, others loosely:

Vampires - Wraith
Frankenstein's Monster - Michael
Zombies - Michael's hybrids, critters in Whispers
Aliens - Michael's bug creatures
Ghosts - Echoes, Hide & Seek, Phantoms
Terminator - Replicators
The Fly - Conversion
Werewolves - Instinct, Conversion
The Tingler - Goa'uld symbiote in Critical Mass, lesser degree iratus bug in 38 Minutes
Slither - The Shrine, The Seed

Other horror themes have been touched upon as well, woven throughout the series. In fact, S4 distanced itself a bit from the horror-themed episodes, which have now since returned. I personally like it - I'm not a big fan of horror, I like 'light horror' (Mystery Science Theater 3000 stuff). I like to be a little scared, not a lot scared...and SGA has done just that with it's mix of sci fi and light horror throughout it's entire 5-year run.


das

[Klinjon]

There are threads for negative & positive things to say. Starting your own thread when these posts can go in there can also be considered spamming & oh boo hoo you found a flaw in my argument & well guess what your spamming if you want to get technical. Theres a reason why those threads were made to avoid threads like this

I think you'll find that one of the many reasons why I started this topic was because I disagree with the concept of those threads you describe. I haven't done anything that is disrupting the boards, I haven't been dis-respectful to other members, and I've presented an argument which has led to plenty of healthy discussion. And I don't think starting a thread which I don't believe can be catagorised so freely into the "Compliments and Praise" or "Complaints and Misgivings" threads can be considered "spamming". This topic does not agree with the very nature of those threads, as I have previously stated. If I had unwittingly (or deliberately) broken one or more forum rules, I'm sure the moderators would have stepped in. And if they do, they are perfectly within there bounds to do that.

I'd be less pre-occupied with telling me what I've apparently done wrong and more concerned with your use of sarcasm to reinforce your own position. I'm not trying to make any of this personal. No way. Not a chance. Your comment was arguably very much on topic, in the sense that it demonstrates how disagreeing with the status quo seems to attract an overtly negative response.

Why does this have to be the case? One wonders...

[Skydiver]

I think guys, if you want to discuss the episode, take it to the episode thread

[Skydiver]

Guys

I can see where this is a valid topic. The fandom and the fandom's reactions to a particular episode. And, as long as it stays in this area, this thread can be valid

Just a few ground rules:

Please keep the in depth discussion about the episode in the episode thread.
Please do NOT disparage anyone or any group for thier opinions/feelings. The purpose of this is not to go into 'i'm so much better than...... because i feel this way. So no dissing, no generalizations, no bickering, no fighting.

DISCUSS

and in discussing this means that ALL viewpoints - as long as they are expressed in a way that does not break the rules - are welcome.

So, continue the discussion of the fandom's reaction to Whispers.

[GoSpikey]

Frankenstein's Monster - Michael

I disagree with calling him that.

[Jumper31]

People having opinions is not what I have a problem with (obviously, that would be obscene). It is the manner in which those opinions are presented by some members of the fandom who comprise this forum that I disagree with. I elaborate this point in almost all of my posts in this thread so far.

I may have gone off topic in my previous posting it seems. My apologies. Most of my criticisms have to do with particular aspects of the episode "Whispers" and not with SGA as a whole.

I do agree that if someone has objections to a particular episode they should have specific things with which they disagree rather than just making blanket statements...I.E. "This episode was terrible!" ...with no explanation as to why.

I still believe that horror in general as a main theme has no place in the Stargate universe. If there IS horror, I think it should remain as perhaps an element in a particular episode. Horrific things actually do occur in real life. But whole episodes devoted to a horror genre don't interest me in the slightest.

I was also, perhaps, a bit harsh in my criticism of Joseph Mallozzi and his writing. I don't like it that he felt the need to incorporate his "inspiration" from reading horror novels in a book club into his writing for Stargate Atlantis.

I also still feel that some of the writing was, indeed, sloppy for that particular episode.

But you are quite right. Negativity for the sake of negativity is not a good thing. And so, I apologise if I have offended anyone in this thread.