The Female Team

[Killdeer]

I can easily buy Rodney not knowing who Porter is. That's just classic Rodney.

I have a much much harder time buying Sheppard's reaction.

[andromeda_dan]

Lt Cadman with have been a better fit

[Rich]

Me neither. When I first saw this team I got the feeling that they'll be going to Universe and basically Paul or whomever was trying to introduce the audience to the "feel" of different type (younger) characters for the new show.

Well, with all due respect to the actors cast in the all female team, they're probably not much younger than Shep and co. They just look young, with their pretty faces and big eyes. Two of them anyway, the Major and deBour.

[Rosehawk]

For the sake of realism. You may have had womens only elements of the military before, but I'm pretty damn sure they were in the days when women were even more segregated and they didn't enter into combat. Sure you can get female commandos and soldiers these days, but an all female team is frankly ludicrous. It just wouldn't happen.

It wouldn't happen today, doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't happen in the future. Not all that long ago women would not have been allowed in combat zones unless they were nurses or is some other caregiving service. And look at where they are at now. They are driving trucks in dangerous areas, being engineers in combat zones. So it is not that farfetch to think that an all female team may not happen sometime down the road.

I despise the solution to have an all female team, because it was a STUNT. If we were to take my squadron as an example, if you were to put us all into teams, there would be only one way to have an all female team - make sure no other teams have girls. And what would you BENEFIT from an all female team? Certainly not the crude brude strength often required. But at the same time, there's NO possibility of having a team made up entirely of black people on my squadron, because there's only TWO gentlemen of that ethnic background.

It may have been a stunt but it's TV which can and does take creative liberties and I thought it was a nice twist.

And it doesn't mean that a squadron can't be made up of all blacks if the opportunity does present itself.

What we're seeing is against all rational odds, and it's painfully obvious the female team was selected because the Major was disgustingly uber feminist. I'd have laughed if all her team died because of her stupid desicion to pick the best women as opposed to the best people.

And so what is wrong with her being an uber feminist and picking the people that would make the best team for her to work with?
How is that line of reasoning any different than a macho male picking teams along the same lines, choosing a team that doesn't include woman because they aren't macho enough to make the team. It feels like you are assuming that a feminist can't be rational in her decisions while a male who may have strong macho tendencies can? Help me to understand.
There is a certain amount of subjectivity and personality that goes into picking any team. A leader wants to get the best people but also needs to be sure that those people can work well within the confines of a team that they have to lead.

[EvenstarSRV]

But an all female team wouldn't be there, in front lines, just becuase they were the best and brightest. It would have been more believable if they were an all female team from another planet where the society was female dominated.

Ok, that statement confuses me. Wouldn't you want the best and brightest people on the front lines of such an important expedition, regardless of their gender? Is the only way that women can be the best and brightest is if they come from a female-dominated society?

I can't totally agree with all the hating on the all-female team. To me, the fact that it was a 4-woman team was pretty much a non-issue, except for Shep's and Beckett's reactions. The fist-bump they did was funny. And no, I'm quite sure they didn't do it on the hope of 'getting lucky,' but just that their comrades would be interesting and pleasant to work with. Throughout the episode, Sheppard treated the other team the same way he'd treat any SG team, no differently than he would have treated Lorne's team. All in all, I found the fact that the team was all-female was an interesting element which ended up being not relevant to the action of the episode.

I agree. Yes, the all-female team was a bit contrived. But to me, beyond the nod to that fact in the beginning, I didn't see Teldy, Vega, or Mehra acting like 'female' soldiers, I saw them acting like soldiers. Mehra could have been toned-down a bit, but she wasn't too big a distraction for me.

And again aside from the opening intros, I saw Sheppard treating them like regular soldiers and not making a big deal out of the fact they were women.

I liked how during the planning session, Teldy and Mehra did voice their concerns, and then quickly, and I thought respectfully, fell in line with their CO's plan. And then stuck to the plan and executed it well, I thought.

It may have been a bit awkward, but I thought it's nice to see more female military members. Other than Carter, there really haven't been ANY prominent female members of the military... neither Teyla nor Weir are military, and I'm not counting Dr. Keller because she's a medical doctor and not a 'soldier.'

I also liked seeing more female soldiers. In the US about 15% of the armed forces are women and about 10% of the those are at the rank of major or higher. And like you said, Carter has really been the only prominent female soldier on Stargate, and she is also a scientist. I don't think we've seen any regular female soldiers aside from a few background characters like in SG-1's Hathor.

[Yvie]

I can't totally agree with all the hating on the all-female team. To me, the fact that it was a 4-woman team was pretty much a non-issue, except for Shep's and Beckett's reactions. The fist-bump they did was funny. And no, I'm quite sure they didn't do it on the hope of 'getting lucky,' but just that their comrades would be interesting and pleasant to work with. Throughout the episode, Sheppard treated the other team the same way he'd treat any SG team, no differently than he would have treated Lorne's team. All in all, I found the fact that the team was all-female was an interesting element which ended up being not relevant to the action of the episode.

Of the four team members, the one who annoyed me the most was Porter... her behavior was totally inconsistent throughout the episode. I assume she's a science doctor as opposed to a medical doctor, but as far as I could tell, she IS military and not a civilian. Anyway, when the Sergeant (or whoever) told her & Beckett to stay inside & lock the door, she was more than willing to cower inside, even discouraging Beckett from going outside. Then, after Beckett does leave, she stupidly runs off on her own (classic horror-movie mistake, which I guess was the point and why it was purposely included; the only element missing from the cliche is that she didn't fall & hurt her ankle). Sheppard later finds her cowering in the dark, and he & the other soldier lead her back. Then-- suddenly Porter becomes Gun-Toting Gussie and for the rest of the episode she's back in soldier-mode. So first she's a soldier, then she's a damsel-in-distress, and then a soldier again. That was my main complaint about the episode.

I found the major to be relatively bland. Sgt Wells (Dusty) may have been a bit of a cliche, but so is Ronon, and so was Teal'c, if you think about it. At least she HAD a personality. Vega played the part of Early Victim, and Porter was the Simpering Female, so it was up to Wells to be the Tough Girl.

It may have been a bit awkward, but I thought it's nice to see more female military members. Other than Carter, there really haven't been ANY prominent female members of the military... neither Teyla nor Weir are military, and I'm not counting Dr. Keller because she's a medical doctor and not a 'soldier.' (Yes, I know if you're a military doctor, you're still considered 'military,' but she's not a "boots on the ground" soldier. And I'm really not including Dr. Lam from SG-1 because I thought her character was laughable.)

Just my two-cents' worth.

I have to agree. I didn't make much of the premise of an all female team because I figured it was just a ploy to get some female hotties on-screen. If there were an all female team, I'm sure it wouldn't look like that. But after the first few minutes gender wasn't really a factor in how I came to know them as characters. I don't really care if it could happen in reality and nothing in the episode made me think it's a bad idea. If anything, it shows that you shouldn't put all stupid people on 1 team. The fact that they were women means little.

I liked that overzealous Dusty. She lightened it up with some humor and is about as cliche as any other character. And I absolutely agree that it's a contrast from how the military women or any of the women on Atlantis are usually represented. She was unapologetically tactless and pretty straightforward and that's what made her relatively unique. Good or bad, she gave that character some life. Porter was annoying. The others I didn't mind but I did find her smitten flirting and unnecessary apologies for the "brutish" behavior of the more military element to be a bit offensive to my senses.

Still, the episode wasn't to my liking really. I missed the team and didn't find the new characters interesting enough to care about (except for Dusty).

[Flyboy]

It wouldn't happen today, doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't happen in the future. Not all that long ago women would not have been allowed in combat zones unless they were nurses or is some other caregiving service. And look at where they are at now. They are driving trucks in dangerous areas, being engineers in combat zones. So it is not that farfetch to think that an all female team may not happen sometime down the road. .

Yes. But this is present day, and for all I know we'll all be able to turn into a shrubbery because we feel like a change in the future, but that day is not now. Besides, as has been pointed out, women cannot be Special Forces, not can women be Royal Marines (and for damn good reason, women are physically not capable of it, that's not sexism - no redding me, that's proven fact, the weight loads required of a RM are beyond that the shape of a female's spine can endure, it would leave a woman badly crippled). I like my military protocol to be real.

It may have been a stunt but it's TV which can and does take creative liberties and I thought it was a nice twist. .

You appear to be of few who believe that then. I thought it was degrading to women because frankly, all it was was an effort to target the teen male demographic with "hot females withs guns" seriously, that's even commented on to a degree in the Porter interview.

And it doesn't mean that a squadron can't be made up of all blacks if the opportunity does present itself..

No, of course not, but STATISTICALLY the chances of a unit being all black is highly improbable, because there just aren't that many black people in the military, at least, the British military. You'll hardly ever see a Chinese Police officer in Britain, not because the British police won't recruit them, but apparently it's a dishonourable profression, from what I've been told for a chinese family. Similarly, the amount of females in the forces is naturally going to be less than males, and thus make an all female team feel ridiculous. And no, not sexist. Both, my mother, and father were Air Force, and as am I. I just know the way things work.

And so what is wrong with her being an uber feminist and picking the people that would make the best team for her to work with?
How is that line of reasoning any different than a macho male picking teams along the same lines, choosing a team that doesn't include woman because they aren't macho enough to make the team. It feels like you are assuming that a feminist can't be rational in her decisions while a male who may have strong macho tendencies can? Help me to understand.
There is a certain amount of subjectivity and personality that goes into picking any team. A leader wants to get the best people but also needs to be sure that those people can work well within the confines of a team that they have to lead.

I believe she was an uber feminist who chose the best women, not the best people. I sincerely doubt, particularly after her "funny how that worked out" comment that ALL the best people were female, I personally believe she wanted them primarily because they were women. I doubt she'd have chosen a single male, regardles sof their qualifications. I wouldn't blink at an all male team, because statistically, with the amount of males to females in the military, it's MORE LIKELY the best soldier will be male.

[Col.Foley]

I believe she was an uber feminist who chose the best women, not the best people. I sincerely doubt, particularly after her "funny how that worked out" comment that ALL the best people were female, I personally believe she wanted them primarily because they were women. I doubt she'd have chosen a single male, regardles sof their qualifications. I wouldn't blink at an all male team, because statistically, with the amount of males to females in the military, it's MORE LIKELY the best soldier will be male.

I picked up on that too. The whole team was just one big uber mega feminist only club...except for Porter...and Vega perhaps.

[Rosehawk]

Yes. But this is present day, and for all I know we'll all be able to turn into a shrubbery because we feel like a change in the future, but that day is not now. Besides, as has been pointed out, women cannot be Special Forces, not can women be Royal Marines (and for damn good reason, women are physically not capable of it, that's not sexism - no redding me, that's proven fact, the weight loads required of a RM are beyond that the shape of a female's spine can endure, it would leave a woman badly crippled). I like my military protocol to be real.

Don't worry, I'm not one to red just cause someone disagrees with me! I just wanted to hear more of the discussion of why you felt the way you did.

You appear to be of few who believe that then. I thought it was degrading to women because frankly, all it was was an effort to target the teen male demographic with "hot females withs guns" seriously, that's even commented on to a degree in the Porter interview.

Yes, I suspect I am in the minority. I didn't find it at all degrading to women. What would have been degrading to me is if they made the women all wearing skimpy clothes or showing cleavage which is typically how they try to get the teen male demographics to watch. They did not, the emphasis was not on their physical appearances.
I find it interesting that a team can consist of handsome and well built men and that is not considered degrading and yet when they put women in that situation it is considered degrading. A bit of a double standard from my viewpoint.

No, of course not, but STATISTICALLY the chances of a unit being all black is highly improbable, because there just aren't that many black people in the military, at least, the British military. You'll hardly ever see a Chinese Police officer in Britain, not because the British police won't recruit them, but apparently it's a dishonourable profression, from what I've been told for a chinese family. Similarly, the amount of females in the forces is naturally going to be less than males, and thus make an all female team feel ridiculous. And no, not sexist. Both, my mother, and father were Air Force, and as am I. I just know the way things work.

I agree statistically that an all black or all female team are highly improbable, but not impossible.

I believe she was an uber feminist who chose the best women, not the best people. I sincerely doubt, particularly after her "funny how that worked out" comment that ALL the best people were female, I personally believe she wanted them primarily because they were women. I doubt she'd have chosen a single male, regardles sof their qualifications. I wouldn't blink at an all male team, because statistically, with the amount of males to females in the military, it's MORE LIKELY the best soldier will be male.

We will just have to agree to disagree here. Though yes, I do agree that statistically there are more options of highly qualified men to choose from then highly qualified women.

Yes, I felt that she wasn't too keen on men, so what. Not unlike men who aren't so keen on women being on their team.
She picked the best people that worked for her on a team and if her bosses had problems with her team being all female and not putting a token male on the team, I am sure they were have strongly suggested that she add a man to the team.
I think she took who she felt was the most qualified from her perspective, she would not have wanted a women on the team who wasn't qualified so one can not assume because they were all women that they were not qualified to be on the team.

[Teslan]

You appear to be of few who believe that then. I thought it was degrading to women because frankly, all it was was an effort to target the teen male demographic with "hot females withs guns" seriously, that's even commented on to a degree in the Porter interview.

Was it a stunt? Yes, IMHO. But the scifi genre as a whole has a long history of catering towards the teen male demographic, and this wasn't the worst example of that. Personally, the fact that they used them purely as monster bait was more disturbing. The "women being terrorized" theme that has become a staple in Hollywood seems to have spread, unfortunately.

No, of course not, but STATISTICALLY the chances of a unit being all black is highly improbable, because there just aren't that many black people in the military, at least, the British military. You'll hardly ever see a Chinese Police officer in Britain, not because the British police won't recruit them, but apparently it's a dishonourable profression, from what I've been told for a chinese family. Similarly, the amount of females in the forces is naturally going to be less than males, and thus make an all female team feel ridiculous. And no, not sexist. Both, my mother, and father were Air Force, and as am I. I just know the way things work.

Well, you are looking at this from the view of the British military. I've read that they very small percentage of the entire British population. That is very, very different than 12% of the US population. And judging by their numbers in the Army (I can't say about the Air Force), it would be quite possible to have an all-black four member team.

[thedrumm3rguy]

for me the biggest irking factor wassnt the gender, but the horrid characterization.

i re-watched the ep, and i still had a very hard time believing they were a Sg team, its almost like Buffy meets SGA

carter was a brilliant character in that she was believable, even from the slightly corny first season.....heck, id settle for Cadman - IMO that character had the right balance.


a gay team would be hilarious, would totally kill Atlantis, but id watch it for laughs

[Flyboy]

Don't worry, I'm not one to red just cause someone disagrees with me! I just wanted to hear more of the discussion of why you felt the way you did.

Well that's good.

Yes, I suspect I am in the minority. I didn't find it at all degrading to women. What would have been degrading to me is if they made the women all wearing skimpy clothes or showing cleavage which is typically how they try to get the teen male demographics to watch. They did not, the emphasis was not on their physical appearances.
I find it interesting that a team can consist of handsome and well built men and that is not considered degrading and yet when they put women in that situation it is considered degrading. A bit of a double standard from my viewpoint.

I appreciate that they didn't do that, which is some small mercy, but notice how they were all "hot chicks" not that I'd ever use that term myself, but, it just doesn't fit with what I myself know and have experienced of the military, I'm used to women being quite iinvolved in all areas of the forces, female RAF police, female pilots, female Flight ops officers, etc etc etc, the list goes on, but in EVERY field, there's always a dominance of males. Granted, with the exception of the RAF Regiment, the majority of roles have a couple of women involved, it's so overwhelmingly men that a female team REALLY feels forced. It seems like one of the most artificial things I've ever seen. Taking my squadron of about 60 into account, less than ten of those are female. In fact my CO has expressed concern about this, and has tried to soften our recruiting approach to make us less daunting for female potential recruits. In otherwords, when recruiting, most of us will only wear squadron polo shirts, with only two in uniform.

I severely disagree about the emphasis on physical appearance, I think the fact they were all extremely attractive ladies is also fairly unbelievable, I believe the "Aliens" female marines mentioned, were considerably less attractive.

I understand what you're saying however about a load of attractive males in an all male squad and no one complains, but then, that's not particularly always the case, for one, we generally don't see all male squads in the Gateverse, when we do, they're MUCH more background, and you'll find a lot are more traditional military, ie - not poster boys. The fact that there's MORE males in the forces however, statistically increases the chances of one of them being "hot".

I agree statistically that an all black or all female team are highly improbable, but not impossible.

True, but I also believe that even if it WERE possible for an all black team, a CO would be off his head to put one together, because that in itself would raise issues of political correctness, "why are they being segregated etc". Integration is much more likely.

As for all female teams, that's even more unlikely, because due to their rarity in the forces, any effort to make an all female team would again, require a deliberate attempt to put them all into one team. WHY? What could you possibly gain? If anything you lose the natural advantages a male can often bring, I don't disagree women can make some ferocious soldiers and this is not to disrespect any female servicement, but after meeting a load of British paratroopers, seeing the fact that their arms are bigger than your thigh... well let's put it this way, the added brute force would be a comfort in certain situations which, whilst some women are capable off, most are not, even in the forces. If I were putting together an SG team, aside from my essential troops, ie the McKay/Carter charcaters, I'd want some beefy soldiers like the Brit Paras, ie the role of Dusty in this episode. In fact, had her character been male, the rest of the team wouldn't have been an issue.

However, putting together an all male team can often be because you've already assigned what few females you have and all that's left are males. I myself have encountered this issue when preparing a training camp for new entrants to my squadron, I wanted to ensure integration, and each flight had an IC and a 2IC, one of which was male, one was female (notably, it was not always the male that was IC, nor was the female always 2IC), as I wanted to make sure females and males both had an IC of the same gender that they could report to in case of more personal issues. I ran out of females before the flights were full. So a couple of all male flights remained.

Yes, I felt that she wasn't too keen on men, so what. Not unlike men who aren't so keen on women being on their team.
She picked the best people that worked for her on a team and if her bosses had problems with her team being all female and not putting a token male on the team, I am sure they were have strongly suggested that she add a man to the team.

Which is pathetic, just as men are pathetic who object to women on a team when there's no good reason for it. However, I would argue, and forgive me if I appear sexist here, I am not, but from a military stand point it's easier to see why a female may be a liability, more so than a male, for one, particularly in the Gateverse, they're viewed as (though not necessarily are) an easier target, but also because males are naturally stronger. Taking the British forces again as an example, the RAF fitness test requires a lot more effort from males than females, for one, men require a level of 9-10 on a bleep test, women require 7-2 (both ages 17-29). It's a concern. And, whilst I don't want to get into a "women on the front line" argument, that also stands.

If I were that Major's superior I would severely speak to her about her decision to overlook male team members if it were just because she was more inclined to females. Just as I would speak to a male team leader if he overlooked a female candidate who was ideal for the task in hand.

I think she took who she felt was the most qualified from her perspective, she would not have wanted a women on the team who wasn't qualified so one can not assume because they were all women that they were not qualified to be on the team.

Most certainly not, but the Sergeant, in every way, appeared to be a kid soldier, not someone I'd ever want on my team. EVER. I severely doubt a male Sergeant in an SG team would act like that, and the only reason I can imagine a female doing so, is over compensation, regardless, such an attitude is dangerous and not for an important team, particulary one that is essentially SOF. Again, back to her "funny how that worked out" it suggested to me that they were NOT actually the best in their field, they were just the best females.

[NorseGuy]

This episode was horrible. I din't really like any of the female characters while they just didn't appear realistic or for that sake very likeable to me and I don't have anything against women in the show. I loved Carter and Wier and I do like both Teyla and even Keller. Acutally the doctor was the only character who worked. But to the defence of the female team I've to add the episode somehow just made it all worse. Instead of wasting our time with a all-female team why didn't they just put in a new beliveable female character which can stay there for the rest of the SGA series and movies? That would surely be better. Surely the episode could've worked better with the usual team instead of wasting time with a meaningless storyline.

[Flyboy]

This episode was horrible. I din't really like any of the female characters while they just didn't appear realistic or for that sake very likeable to me and I don't have anything against women in the show. I loved Carter and Wier and I do like both Teyla and even Keller. Acutally the doctor was the only character who worked. But to the defence of the female team I've to add the episode somehow just made it all worse. Instead of wasting our time with a all-female team why didn't they just put in a new beliveable female character which can stay there for the rest of the SGA series and movies? That would surely be better. Surely the episode could've worked better with the usual team instead of wasting time with a meaningless storyline.

Lorne's team for example?

[EvenstarSRV]

If I were that Major's superior I would severely speak to her about her decision to overlook male team members if it were just because she was more inclined to females. Just as I would speak to a male team leader if he overlooked a female candidate who was ideal for the task in hand.

I think you make some very good points, but I don't believe that we were given any evidence that Teldy deliberately overlooked qualified male soldiers when picking her team because of any bias against them. I don't consider her just having 3 female teammates as 'proof' of that, so assuming that that was her reasoning seems like a bit of a stretch.

To me, all of the soldiers seemed capable at their jobs, whether it was searching the village, checking the perimeter, or setting up and executing the ambush at the end. After that 1 minute intro scene, the fact that they were female became a non-issue, IMO.

Could Lorne's team (all-male) have done just as good a job? Most likely, and I probably would have enjoyed the episode just as much.