Is this what we deserve after 5 years? A love triangle?

[FallenAngelII]

It sounds like you're complaining about the writers giving you exactly what you wanted.

I'm sorry, what leaps in logic did you have to make to arrive at that conclusion?

And that can be achieved in many ways. Relationships are another. That's my point.

It's taught us much about Rodney's character. Take a look at his behaviour with Carter (overbearing and abnoxious) and even with Katie (the overly sweet, overly nice behaviour) and compare that to his behaviour with Jennifer which more of the Rodney to which we've grown accustomed, but with an actual brain to mouth filter that cares what makes it through.

Funny, you must be watching some alternate version of Atlantis because I haven't seen any of that. Name the episode where Rodney and Jennifer have some weird moment where he puts a filter on and "cares what makes it through".

Well of course it would have been different. But anything could have been different on the show if this hadn't happened or that had happened instead.

The point is that Ronon did go most probably because of his feelings for Jennifer. It's also possible that he went because he knew Rodney was going. Thus the love triangle driving the plot of the two of them together in the woods in pursuit of Jennifer and her kidnapper.

Random speculation followed by more random speculation and it didn't drive the plot forward. It was merely part of the plot. The ship itself did not make the plot go in random directions it would never have possibly gone without the ship.

Different doesn't equal bad all the time either. Yet that is the mentality you seem to be going with most often while admonishing me for trying to point out that change is not only necessary, but sometimes can be beneficial.

I have never claimed that different is bad. Just because I dislike most of the changes done recently doesn't mean I dislike change.

However, you was speaking as if different = good.

There are maybe 20-30 different people posting in this thread out of the tens of thousands of members on GW out of the millions that watch the show. That's hardly many.

And the inane logic rears its ugly head again. Yes, the fans on GateWorld cannot possibly be representative of the viewer base!

Especially not if the fans are negative. I mean, if 40 fans say "I loved the episode" vs. 25 who say "I hated it!", then we can safely say that "90% of viewers probably loved the episode!" because, well, the logic is in there somewhere.

Yes, we fans here on GateWorld couldn't possibly have something in common with the average viewer! If 90% of GateWorld hated the episode, well, we're longtime fans who nitpick and whatever, so 75% of the viewer base probably loved the episode!

I bet 90% of all viewers love the new love triangle with 5% indifferent and only 5% dissenting. How? Random speculation and inane logic.

This seems to be a recurring theme amongst the people who aren't fans of "shipping" on SGA.

"I don't mind ships so long as they're done well."

Well what does, "done well" entail? And do you realize that that is highly subjective and up to individual interpretation? What I like is evidently not something you like, but it could be what many others do, and vice versa.,

I'm sorry, I'm Dictator of the World since when? You're free to like it. Have I criticized you for liking it? Have I said "Well, it's highly subjective, so why even talk about liking it?!"? You can like it, I dislike it.

It's subjective, yes. But it's my opinion. And you can disagree with it, but don't bring out the "It's subjective!"-card as if it disqualified me or anyone else from discussing him.

Feel free to express your opinion, but please don't be so presumptuous as to claim that your opinion is shared by many fans and that the "shipping" sucks and so should be discarded and forgotten.

My opinion is shared by many. Many is a subjective word. And many here on GateWorld apparently share my opinion. And I'm sorry, were you here during the 8 years of S&J? People from all over hated it.

It left us with a bad aftertaste and trepidation whenever the PtB ship. In fact, were you here during the first 3 years of Atlantis? Random BS shipping abound which usually lead to nothing.

I find it quite amusing that you are suggesting the "shipping" in this show be left up to the wild imaginations of shippers everywhere, yet now you claim to want everything about the relationship to be shown on screen and in neon lights.

This is this and that is that. Strawmanning is bad!

This triangle was pretty random since it had no buildup. (Earlier shipping attempts had building... well, except for McBrown and we all saw how well that went). Apparently, it's progressed to such a point where Rodney of all people is prepared to declare his undying love for Jennifer.

Yet... nothing was shown to indicate the buildup of such feelings in "Sanctuary" except for... um... a drink?

While I'd prefer to have no blatant shipping shoved down my throat at all by a PtB with a history of horrific shipping, I'd also like to, if they're gonna shove it down my throat anyway, see a more logical approach instead of just random instances of BS.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

I'm sorry, what leaps in logic did you have to make to arrive at that conclusion?

If I'd have had to make a "leap in logic" to come to the conclusion this thread wouldn't exist.

[FallenAngelII]

If I'd have had to make a "leap in logic" to come to the conclusion this thread wouldn't exist.

Again your logic eludes me.

[Pandora's_Box]

Funny, you must be watching some alternate version of Atlantis because I haven't seen any of that. Name the episode where Rodney and Jennifer have some weird moment where he puts a filter on and "cares what makes it through".

Compare his interactions with Carter (in which he is abnoxious^100 bordering on chauvanistic) to his interactions with Keller. Case in point. That's why I deem these relationships of his (with Carter, Katie, and Keller) to be interesting and revealing and worth the time for the writers to write them and for us to watch them.

Random speculation followed by more random speculation and it didn't drive the plot forward. It was merely part of the plot. The ship itself did not make the plot go in random directions it would never have possibly gone without the ship.

Would Rodney have gone on the mission on his day off if he hadn't been interested in Keller? If he didn't have feelings than he wouldn't have gone and we wouldn't have had the confrontation at the end. Who knows what else may happen between these two characters in future episodes as a result of that scene and episode?

Maybe that was enough for Ronon to begin to see Rodney in a different light. Maybe we'll see some change in their relationship (good or bad). Regardless, something will happen and I'm interested in seeing what that is.

And the inane logic rears its ugly head again. Yes, the fans on GateWorld cannot possibly be representative of the viewer base!

Especially not if the fans are negative. I mean, if 40 fans say "I loved the episode" vs. 25 who say "I hated it!", then we can safely say that "90% of viewers probably loved the episode!" because, well, the logic is in there somewhere.

Yes, we fans here on GateWorld couldn't possibly have something in common with the average viewer! If 90% of GateWorld hated the episode, well, we're longtime fans who nitpick and whatever, so 75% of the viewer base probably loved the episode!

I've never claimed that any group (lovers or haters) on GW is representative of the SGA fanbase. Because, truth of the matter is, we're not. There is a stark difference between what we (as, some would say, hardcore fans) look for in the show and what the average, casual viewer looks for in the show.

I'm merely saying that the ratings and the online downloads speak for themselves. And they're not saying that the majority of viewers hate the direction of the show.

I bet 90% of all viewers love the new love triangle with 5% indifferent and only 5% dissenting. How? Random speculation and inane logic.

Did I say that? Honestly, did I even begin to say that?

I am saying that while you may not like it and you may know hundreds of people who may not like it, there are millions of viewers out there that do. So it doesn't matter what the people of GW say about it or if 90% of GW posters hate it or love it, the ratings and downloads speak for the millions out there who don't post on GW and have a hell of a lot more say than us as to whether something is liked or not.

I'm sorry, I'm Dictator of the World since when? You're free to like it. Have I criticized you for liking it? Have I said "Well, it's highly subjective, so why even talk about liking it?!"? You can like it, I dislike it.

It's subjective, yes. But it's my opinion. And you can disagree with it, but don't bring out the "It's subjective!"-card as if it disqualified me or anyone else from discussing him.

Oh, chill out.

I was simply making the point that continuously berating TPTB for writing 'ships but writing them badly, and constantly saying, "Please PTB! Please stop the insanity!" (obviously I'm paraphrasing) is only done with the consideration of your own views and not those of the millions of others who seem to like it.

And as those millions of others seem to keep watching it, and I assume they don't do so out of a willingness to endure torturous viewing every week, it can't really be all that bad or painful or that insane. And for that matter, it can't have been done all that badly.

I'm not telling, asking, or demanding for you to stop stating your opinion. I'm only pointing out that what you're constantly harping on for being horrible and the harbinger of the apocalypse is something that, for all intents and purposes, is not hurting the show at all. At least not as we've seen so far.

My opinion is shared by many. Many is a subjective word.

Granted.

And many here on GateWorld apparently share my opinion. And I'm sorry, were you here during the 8 years of S&J? People from all over hated it.

It left us with a bad aftertaste and trepidation whenever the PtB ship. In fact, were you here during the first 3 years of Atlantis? Random BS shipping abound which usually lead to nothing.

Ooooooh! I wasn't posting then (the horror!) does that make me an incosequential viewer? Does that exclude me from the priviledged club of people allowed to talk about all things SGA, including those precious 3 seasons when I wasn't posting?

Most "shipping" (as you call it) leads to nothing. I prefer not to call those moments "shipping" so much as friendship and relationship building or, at the very extreme, a way for TPTB to test the waters.

And what's so very wrong with that? Why shouldn't there be at least a mocidum of genuine human interactions that extend beyond the platonic? Is that really so bad and horrible and damaging to the poor, innocent minds of the PG audience? Although, I don't know how PG a show can be when it's shown at 10 pm and has all the suggestively violent situations that this show has, but I digress.

This triangle was pretty random since it had no buildup. (Earlier shipping attempts had building... well, except for McBrown and we all saw how well that went). Apparently, it's progressed to such a point where Rodney of all people is prepared to declare his undying love for Jennifer.

Oh, the horror! That a character can love another character so completely! Love? How atrocious, no?

"Rodney of all people"? What does that even mean?

Give the man a break. He's been fighting the Wraith in another galaxy for four years. He's faced his own mortality probably more times than he can count (and he can count pretty high) and now he's realized that life is short and he wants a good woman and some love in his life. Yes, even super genius astrophysicists need love.

While I'd prefer to have no blatant shipping shoved down my throat at all by a PtB with a history of horrific shipping, I'd also like to, if they're gonna shove it down my throat anyway, see a more logical approach instead of just random instances of BS.

All right fine.

But think of it this way. You seem (and most others against this crazy "shipping" idea) seem to be against the blatantly overt shipping. That's fine. Maybe TPTB are trying to appease the more "SF only" fans while also bringing in the subtly lovey-dovey aspects.

Shippers will ship and will fill in the missing blanks of the realtionship and those that wish to ignore it can. Because "shipping" is really not that big of a part of the show, despite claims by some fans to the contrary.

[angela23]

Rodney should not have a Love-Relationship. It doesn't go with his Character. This is a bad Idea. Rodney and Keller don't even have any onscreen Chemistry between them, they just act desperate. And if Rodney all of a sudden becomes Mr Nice Guy and romances Keller, that would be awfull. He is supp. to have an attitude and think everybody but him is stupid, that is what makes him fun to watch, if he changes he would not be Mc Kay anymore. I don't think I want to watch Brain Storm. It is supp. to be Keller and Mc Kay. I think they need to leave the Romance stuff alone. Especially Ronon, Keller and Rodney. That is too boring. Maybe Sheppard and Jill or Teyla and Sheppard, now that would be something.

[FallenAngelII]

Compare his interactions with Carter (in which he is abnoxious^100 bordering on chauvanistic) to his interactions with Keller. Case in point. That's why I deem these relationships of his (with Carter, Katie, and Keller) to be interesting and revealing and worth the time for the writers to write them and for us to watch them.

Have you been paying attention to the show for the past, you know, 5 years? Rodney's antics when interacting with Sam are quite unique. Compare them to how he acts with any other love interest, not just Jennifer, and you'll see it's like night and day.

And, again I ask, what has Rodney done with Jennifer insofar that's so significant and important? No, really, they've barely had any one-on-one interaction or even interaction at all other than "OMG! Hurt people! Help!" interaction.

Would Rodney have gone on the mission on his day off if he hadn't been interested in Keller? If he didn't have feelings than he wouldn't have gone and we wouldn't have had the confrontation at the end. Who knows what else may happen between these two characters in future episodes as a result of that scene and episode?

Rodney seemed quite prepared to just run. He was all "Let's go back to the gate and dial for backup!", but Ronon was the one who pushed him on, not Jennifer. Ronon was the one who was all "If we don't go now, we might never be able to catch up.", which was why Rodney decided to carry on with it.

And you know what, I think Rodney would be prepared to do what he did for anyone he knew, not just people he's in love with. After all, he's done more for people he only knows and isn't in love with (or isn't family).

Maybe that was enough for Ronon to begin to see Rodney in a different light. Maybe we'll see some change in their relationship (good or bad). Regardless, something will happen and I'm interested in seeing what that is.

Read above.

I've never claimed that any group (lovers or haters) on GW is representative of the SGA fanbase. Because, truth of the matter is, we're not. There is a stark difference between what we (as, some would say, hardcore fans) look for in the show and what the average, casual viewer looks for in the show.

And I factor that in when I judge the show. Still, quite a few people dislike blatantly random and/or badly written shipping.

I'm merely saying that the ratings and the online downloads speak for themselves. And they're not saying that the majority of viewers hate the direction of the show.

So because the show isn't enjoying ratings down the toilet, all viewers who watch the show must love it and everything about it?

Casual or hardcore, very few viewers will stop watching a show just because of a few or even many flaws as long as they still enjoy the show. That said, it doesn't mean that they aren't constantly bothered by it either.

Also, just because X amounts of millions of viewers watch the show doesn't mean X amounts of more viewers wouldn't watch it if it were better written.

So, no, your numbers mean nothing in this conversation.

I am saying that while you may not like it and you may know hundreds of people who may not like it, there are millions of viewers out there that do. So it doesn't matter what the people of GW say about it or if 90% of GW posters hate it or love it, the ratings and downloads speak for the millions out there who don't post on GW and have a hell of a lot more say than us as to whether something is liked or not.

Just because they watch the show does not mean they enjoy the love triangle, or shipping or even Jennifer's presence on Atlantis. Just because they have yet to abandon the show does not mean they love everything about it.

This is some of the most inane logic I've ever seen. Seriously, where is this coming from?! Oh, the show enjoys millions of viewers. Obviously, all or at least a majority or many of them must either love, like or at least not dislike this specific aspect of the show we're currently discussing.

I was simply making the point that continuously berating TPTB for writing 'ships but writing them badly, and constantly saying, "Please PTB! Please stop the insanity!" (obviously I'm paraphrasing) is only done with the consideration of your own views and not those of the millions of others who seem to like it.

Why not? Why should I not? It's my opinion. And it's not like we're seeing threads about this weekly, monthly or even anually. We see it whenever it's called for, like, say, now, when the PtB not only decided to have Rodney randomly declare his undying love for Jennifer two episodes ago but also have him randomly thrown into a love triangle.

And as those millions of others seem to keep watching it, and I assume they don't do so out of a willingness to endure torturous viewing every week, it can't really be all that bad or painful or that insane. And for that matter, it can't have been done all that badly.

Blah, blah, inane logic rules.

I'm not telling, asking, or demanding for you to stop stating your opinion. I'm only pointing out that what you're constantly harping on for being horrible and the harbinger of the apocalypse is something that, for all intents and purposes, is not hurting the show at all. At least not as we've seen so far.

The inane logic lives strong within you. How can you say that it's not hurting the show at all? Seriously? How can you even say that it's not hurting the show significantly? Where are your numbers to show that no viewers or at least not a significant amount of viewers have decided to drop the show after X or Y happened? Where is your proof? Be it actual proof or circumstantial such.

Ooooooh! I wasn't posting then (the horror!) does that make me an incosequential viewer? Does that exclude me from the priviledged club of people allowed to talk about all things SGA, including those precious 3 seasons when I wasn't posting?

Umm... are you actually reading my post as a coherent and well-structured mini-essay or just plucking out random sentence to "refute"?

The question is not whether or not you were posting back then and, thus, have a "privilige", the question is whether or not you were even around. And if you were, how could you possibly sit there and claim my views are not shared by many, be it viewers or just here on GateWorld as if you had been around, you would've seen it for yourself firsthand.

Most "shipping" (as you call it) leads to nothing. I prefer not to call those moments "shipping" so much as friendship and relationship building or, at the very extreme, a way for TPTB to test the waters.

I was speaking of S&J and nothing else. S&J, that is all.

And what's so very wrong with that? Why shouldn't there be at least a mocidum of genuine human interactions that extend beyond the platonic? Is that really so bad and horrible and damaging to the poor, innocent minds of the PG audience? Although, I don't know how PG a show can be when it's shown at 10 pm and has all the suggestively violent situations that this show has, but I digress.

What part of "I do not mind shipping as long as it's well written" is too Canadian French pour toi pour apprender?

Shipping is not bad... as it's well written. Random and badly written shipping is bad. The PtB has a decade long record of badly written ships, and that's when only two people are involved. This is a love triangle. With the PtB's record, this has disaster written all over it.

This is what I've been saying from the start, this what I've had to repeat because you seem incapable of grasping this. At first you were only arguing that I'm wrong in that it's badly written. For some reason, you seem to have forgotten about the fact that I've, many times, said that shipping is fine as long as it's well written and the reason why I'm against it in this case is because of the PtB's track record and because it's a love triangle.

I've also expressed the opinion that I'd prefer to not have it at all but that's neither here nor there if you'd only bothered to read the many posts in which I say (and let me reiterate for the jillionth time) that I do not mind it as long as it's well written.

Oh, the horror! That a character can love another character so completely! Love? How atrocious, no?

Are we even speaking the same language (you know, English, which happens to be my third language) or are you just blatantly trolling now?

The point of that paragraph was that Rodney has somehow come to a point where he's prepared to declare his love for Jennifer. Now I don't know how old you are or how many times you have been truly in love but at 40-something, Rodney isn't a teenager who'll declare his love simply out of sexual attraction.

When Rodney says he loves someone, it most probably means that it's progressed to a very serious state.

And this progression has apparently been all off-screen as I certainly haven't seen any of it.

[FallenAngelII]

(I exceeded the 12000 character count)

"Rodney of all people"? What does that even mean?

Rodney... 40... man of science... man of a lot of thinking. Rodney, man of logic, man of "I won't even go grocery shopping without pre-planning".

This is Meredith Rodney McCay. Have you met him? Can you imagine him declaring his love for someone out of the blue without actually being truly in love with them?

As far as we know, Jennifer and Rodney aren't even dating. Because we haven't seen it. We can speculate as much as we want, but from what we've seen and even heard (as in throwaway comments and stuff), Rodney and Jennifer aren't actually dating.

Heck, John seemed quite surprised that Rodney would volunteer to go help Jennifer. I mean, do you think they'd had that conversation if John had known Rodney was dating Jennifer? Because then it wouldn't really be a surprise.

But somehow Rodney's managed to fall in love with Jennifer despite them not dating (as far as anyone knows). That or he was lying or blowing his attraction out of proportion due to desperation or something back in the "Sanctuary".

Either way, it's not a well-written or fleshed out ship. Here we have the two. They meet. They fall down a hole (with another person). They talk a bit. They have a drink. Fast forward 6 months and one party is apparently in love with the other.

Oh yeah, well written all right.

Give the man a break. He's been fighting the Wraith in another galaxy for four years. He's faced his own mortality probably more times than he can count (and he can count pretty high) and now he's realized that life is short and he wants a good woman and some love in his life. Yes, even super genius astrophysicists need love.

... ...
You don't declare your love to someone out of the blue at the age of 40 if you're not actually in love. That or Rodney is a major jerk, doing it to get some tail. You don't just throw "I love you!" out without meaning it, especially not at the age of 40... unless, of course, you're a jerk.

Living for 4 years in the Pegasus galaxy does not change that.

But think of it this way. You seem (and most others against this crazy "shipping" idea) seem to be against the blatantly overt shipping. That's fine. Maybe TPTB are trying to appease the more "SF only" fans while also bringing in the subtly lovey-dovey aspects.

Subtle?! Sutble?! You call that subtle?!

Rodney blatantly declaring his love for Jennifer and John and Rodney having that entire conversation about Rodney volunteering to go off-world with Jennifer on his day off. There is nothing subtle about this. I'd like the name of this imaginary version of "Stargate Atlantis" you must be watching.

[Integrabyte]

Spoiler:

***munching popcorn...encore...encore ***

[fumblesmcstupid]

[Linda06]

I um........Still haven't watched it

[fumblesmcstupid]

I read the transcripts! Still glad I didn't watch.

[Linda06]

I have spies everywhere telling me things about certain eps

[fumblesmcstupid]

me too!

As for the love triangle

If Keller and Ronon get together...Rodney gets hurt!

Keller and Rodney get together....Ronon gets hurt!

Triangle = Great big mess!

I really hate seeing my favorite characters hearts get broken.

Oh yes I do know they are character's and life sucks blah blah blah......I watch Atlantis to get away from reality.......yes characters can be in love.....with one person at a time.

This isn't an episode of RED SHOE DIARIES and the story is "I love two men" stuff (yeah fanfic)

Give me explosions and Wraith and puddlejumpers and Stargates and all the cool stuff I watch Atlantis for and leave the Triangles for the WC.

[jelgate]

I have spies everywhere telling me things about certain eps

I'm still waiting for that payment you promisied me

[Linda06]

I'm still waiting for that payment you promisied me

um.....heh.......*shifts eyes side to side* um oh look what's that....*runs away*