Is this what we deserve after 5 years? A love triangle?

[tranquil101]

This triangle "ship" is almost as bizarre as the Daniel/Janet Fraser ship that some fans were after in SG1. Craaazy.

The minor Jack/Sam ship worked because it was subtle, didn't turn into a huge "o.c/dawson's creek" romance and didn't get in the way of the true point of SG1, which is.....exploring unknown worlds!
It was also believable. They spent enough time together, every episode for multiple seasons, so it was generally assumed "feelings" would develop.

This triangle it seems is like a "by the way", an after-thought development.
Like the writers needed an episode to deal with the kiss between Keller and Ronan in Quarantine (S4) and the Keller and Rodney future ship laid out in The Last Man (S4)

I'm also finding it hard to "buy" the concept of either ship. The characters do not seem to be in enough episodes together to form that strong "special" bond. Every week instead of seeing 4 characters together (i.e. SG1) we are seeing one week - John and McKay....the next week it is Keller and Teyla hanging out. There needs to be more of that group bonding...and hopefully we will get that in the upcoming SGU (seeing as they are stuck on a spaceship!)

It will be interesting to watch further developments....in any case, next weeks episode will truly rock!

[Brain_Child]

Perhaps this love triangle was merely a test, to see how the stargate community would react before they begin writing Stargate Universe, which is meant to be more character based. If the love triangle in SGA is unsuccessful they may use it as research in writing Universe.

[ToasterOnFire]

I think the show did just fine for its first 4 years without shipping main characters together. All TPTB had to do was write characters with good chemistry and the shippers took it from there. Gods know this PTB can't write good canon ship, just look at Sam/Jack and the lack of any sort of resolution.

[Pandora's_Box]

Also, again, this is a dark-ish space opera drama comedy thingie ensemble show about space exploration, fighting bad guys and the Lost City of the Ancients. Not every single show needs to have overt shipping. Not everything has to be everything. While love, sex and relationships is a part of being human, so are tons of other things.

Not everything has to be in every show, especially when they don't fit in with that show's tone and plot. Why have random ships just to have them? For one thing, if they're good, um... well... OK, so now we have two characters getting it on off-camera (or on) and that's that. If it's bad, everybody loses.

If it's plot driven, then it'll help advance the plot and the storyline in general, thus, becoming a natural part of the show's flow instead of just random interludes of "lovey dovey" stuff.

You know what else is superfluous and doesn't drive the plot at all?

Us knowing that John loves golf, Johnny Cash and ferris wheels.

Or knowing that Rodney is mortally allergic to citrus, or that he has a secret fascination with the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

But if you don't have the little details then you don't have the whole character.

And whose to say that this "love triangle" (I hate the term) isn't driving some plots. Would Ronon have come along on the off-world trip if he hadn't felt something? Would he have gotten Rodney/Ronon scenes if they both didn't have feelings for the same woman?

I don't see it as badly written. Different to what we're used to from Stargate, yes. But after 13 years of the same old same old, and the audience complaining that we're getting too many recycled story lines, something had to change.

[FallenAngelII]

You know what else is superfluous and doesn't drive the plot at all?

Us knowing that John loves golf, Johnny Cash and ferris wheels.

Or knowing that Rodney is mortally allergic to citrus, or that he has a secret fascination with the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

It's called character development. It's called letting us know the characters better.

But if you don't have the little details then you don't have the whole character.

So what has this love triangle taught us about the characters involved that couldn't otherwise have been revealed? In fact, what has it taught us insofar at all?

And whose to say that this "love triangle" (I hate the term) isn't driving some plots. Would Ronon have come along on the off-world trip if he hadn't felt something? Would he have gotten Rodney/Ronon scenes if they both didn't have feelings for the same woman?

The love triangle itself didn't make Ronon go offworld. His possible feelings for Jennifer possibly did. And it didn't drive the plot, it just made him come along. Nobody knows what would've happened had Ronon not come along, it would've just been different.

It's not plot driving just because it causes one thing to happen which doesn't really have anything special to do with the ship.

I don't see it as badly written. Different to what we're used to from Stargate, yes. But after 13 years of the same old same old, and the audience complaining that we're getting too many recycled story lines, something had to change.

Different =/= Good

Just because something has changed doesn't make it good. For one thing, many fans apparently dislike it (as seen in this very thread). And again I reiterate: They couldn't even handle a two-person ship and now a love triangle?

And I see it as pretty random. What did Rodney and Jennifer go through together before he randomly confessed his love for her? Oh, right, they were stuck together in a hole with Sam during which they didn't really so much as fight for their very lives for the most part + play "Who would you rather do" and then he took her out for a drink.

And suddenly he's ready to declare his love for her. And what did Ronon go through with Jennifer? Pretty much nothing and then they kissed. There was no slow progression, there was just "Oh, and they're in love now".

[Amalthea]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a little fluffy love triangle. They see one another 24/7, it's somewhat inevitable in a non-military situation since there isn't anything holding them back. Besides, we only know for sure what's going on in Ronon and McKay's heads, there's no conclusive evidence what Keller thinks/wants.

[Ikaros]

Finally we get something that's not just years of "Will they or won't they". And what happens? Love triangle.

I'm glad they've finally stopped "Will they or won't they":ing us. But what we got in exchange was, in my opinion, even worse (unless Ronon's just pulling Rodney's leg, which, after the episode and previous hints, seem unlikely).

I didn't see any love triangle... Ronon was just having fun with Mckay imo.
And that "will they or won't they" thing it's just a little salt and peper. And to say the truth it's more into "shipers" minds than in the show heheheehehhe

[jckfan55]

I think the show did just fine for its first 4 years without shipping main characters together. All TPTB had to do was write characters with good chemistry and the shippers took it from there. Gods know this PTB can't write good canon ship, just look at Sam/Jack and the lack of any sort of resolution.

Oh, so true. I never understood why you can't just have a great bond among the characters. They did it for several years and had loyal fans. The *team* was the thing. Even if you have attractive men & women that doesn't mean you have to go down the shippy road. And when TPTB have tried it it's been disastrous.

this Keller/Ronan/Rodney thing makes them ALL look bad, imho.

[rarocks24]

The problem wasn't that there was shipping in Stargate in general and this episode in particular, the problem is that the writers don't do shipping very well. I guess they're just trying to get the practice in for Universe.

[FallenAngelII]

The problem wasn't that there was shipping in Stargate in general and this episode in particular, the problem is that the writers don't do shipping very well. I guess they're just trying to get the practice in for Universe.

I guess the younger audience they're targeting is more susceptible to stuff like this than I (a 23 year old) am? Or something.

Damn you youngsters! *shakes fist*

[P-90_177]

The problem wasn't that there was shipping in Stargate in general and this episode in particular, the problem is that the writers don't do shipping very well. I guess they're just trying to get the practice in for Universe.

Exactly. Shipping is fine if done correctly. It's just that the writers of Stargate write their ships as if the characters are still in school. O'Neill and Carter was ok. I didn't mind it that much. It just gets a little irksome in some episodes. And the fact that if they really had such strong feelings for each other it would be far more likely that as responsible military officers, at least one of them would ask for reassignment minimum.....Also the Daniel/Vala ship I had no problem with either because Vala was set up from the get go as a rather infantile character.

It seems to be Atlantis that just handles them majorly badly.........Esspecially when there's just so many.......Shep/Weir, Shep/Teyla, Ronon/Teyla, Ronon/Keller, McKay/Keller, McKay/Weir..........it's just all way too much. And what's more is that the writers seem to try to accomodate every single one of the fans who like a particular ship so we're greeted with episodes like this that accomodate both the McKay/Keller AND Ronon/Keller shippers. The problem being is that you end up with a bit of a mess. Along with....well quite frankly sloppy writing. It is very easy to have a love triangle like this. It's also very possible to do it well....problem is that just as I said earlier, TPTB seem to have certain ideas for episodes....then they look online and look at sites like this to see what the fans want and they think "Oooh this group seems to like this ship" or "These guys seem to want to see this..." Problem is that the writers then try to please everyone and I bet also rush a certain aspect in the script because they didn't plan on it originally. It's quite possible that tracker started out as an episode focussing just on Ronon. B

[bluealien]

I don't mind shipping so much if it's done well (and it can be done well in the hands of good writers.. look at Farscape), but the tpb have proven over and over that they havn't a clue what they are doing when it comes to shipping... they end up butchering the characters and Teyla is a perfect example.... I don't really recognize her since the Kanaan fiasco... I know Rachel was pregnant and they had to incorporate it into the show, but they couldnt have done a worse job IMO.... suddenly out of the blue the ptb say that Teyla has been seeing this guy for over a year or longer.. as even Franibeth got pulled into the rediculous plot of trying to convince us that Teyla has had a sparkle in her eye over 2 years ago for dear Kanaan.

But in fact the TPB had been playing around with both John/Teyla and some would say John/Weir and even getting to the stage that Teyla admitted having a crush on someone who was NOT an Athosian.. but then suddenly we are meant to believe that Teyla while crushing on someone from ATLANTIS was in fact secretley seeing Kanaan as well...

And instead of killing off the plot device they keep him around as the invisible baby sitter as Teyla couldnt possilby be seeen to go off world and leave her adorable little sprog with strangers!! I mean no one leaves their childern with helpers or friends these days.. !!

Then we have poor wittle Rodney falling in and out of love at the drop of a hat. But it's with Katie a minor character, so no one really minds and Rodney is allowed to get some lovin... relationships are a normal and natural part of life .. but then Rodney decides suddenly he is not in love with Katie and dumps the poor thing.... and in the process looking like a bit of a jerk !!

But you can't keep our Rodney down.. he's soon over Katie and even though he doesnt really display much affection for Keller at all he suddenly decides he's in love again.. bless !! and has been for a long time... hmmmm.. but yet he wasn't even bothered opening up her door when she was turning into a Baby Wraith Hive Ship.. I guess he was just trying to keep his feelings from Ronon... in case he got jealous or fell in love with Keller as well...nah !! that would never happen would it!!

And havn't I read somewhere that the ptp don't ever pair MAIN characters up... they only give fairly blatent hints .. like kissing while taken over by aliens or under the influence of a virus... and then if some fans begin to think that these characters have genuinally some real feelings for each other.. the ptb instantly deny there was EVER anything between them... its all in your silly shippy little minds....


Maybe they felt guilty for messing half the fandom about with their shipper games for the past 10 years or so, and finally decided they would make some fans happy... but they still can't just go with one pairing.. hey that's no fun.. let's have a love triangle and forget everything we said in the past about not pairing MAIN characters.. it will be great because it's gonna be our two fave characters .. and eveyone will love it.. we will suddenly announce they are in love.... and Rodney does fall in love quite easily so it will be believable... and it will be even more exciting if we have 2 guys interested in the same character... so both shipping groups will be biting their nails and hoping it will their pairing that wins...

Well knowing the track record of the ptb when it comes to shipping I doubt there will be any winner... it will end as suddenly as it began... and they'll start all over again when it comes to SGU....

[Pandora's_Box]

It's called character development. It's called letting us know the characters better.

And that can be achieved in many ways. Relationships are another. That's my point.

So what has this love triangle taught us about the characters involved that couldn't otherwise have been revealed? In fact, what has it taught us insofar at all?

It's taught us much about Rodney's character. Take a look at his behaviour with Carter (overbearing and abnoxious) and even with Katie (the overly sweet, overly nice behaviour) and compare that to his behaviour with Jennifer which more of the Rodney to which we've grown accustomed, but with an actual brain to mouth filter that cares what makes it through.

I rather thinks it makes for a nice contrast and insight into his character. You may disagree.

The love triangle itself didn't make Ronon go offworld. His possible feelings for Jennifer possibly did. And it didn't drive the plot, it just made him come along. Nobody knows what would've happened had Ronon not come along, it would've just been different.

Well of course it would have been different. But anything could have been different on the show if this hadn't happened or that had happened instead.

The point is that Ronon did go most probably because of his feelings for Jennifer. It's also possible that he went because he knew Rodney was going. Thus the love triangle driving the plot of the two of them together in the woods in pursuit of Jennifer and her kidnapper.

Different =/= Good

Different doesn't equal bad all the time either. Yet that is the mentality you seem to be going with most often while admonishing me for trying to point out that change is not only necessary, but sometimes can be beneficial.

Just because something has changed doesn't make it good. For one thing, many fans apparently dislike it (as seen in this very thread).

There are maybe 20-30 different people posting in this thread out of the tens of thousands of members on GW out of the millions that watch the show. That's hardly many.

And again I reiterate: They couldn't even handle a two-person ship and now a love triangle?

This seems to be a recurring theme amongst the people who aren't fans of "shipping" on SGA.

"I don't mind ships so long as they're done well."

Well what does, "done well" entail? And do you realize that that is highly subjective and up to individual interpretation? What I like is evidently not something you like, but it could be what many others do, and vice versa.

Feel free to express your opinion, but please don't be so presumptuous as to claim that your opinion is shared by many fans and that the "shipping" sucks and so should be discarded and forgotten.

And I see it as pretty random. What did Rodney and Jennifer go through together before he randomly confessed his love for her? Oh, right, they were stuck together in a hole with Sam during which they didn't really so much as fight for their very lives for the most part + play "Who would you rather do" and then he took her out for a drink.

And suddenly he's ready to declare his love for her. And what did Ronon go through with Jennifer? Pretty much nothing and then they kissed. There was no slow progression, there was just "Oh, and they're in love now".

I find it quite amusing that you are suggesting the "shipping" in this show be left up to the wild imaginations of shippers everywhere, yet now you claim to want everything about the relationship to be shown on screen and in neon lights.

[Rac80]

I don't think the triangle exists anywhere but in Mckay's mind! but that is simply IMHO.

[Pandora's_Box]

I don't think the triangle exists anywhere but in Mckay's mind! but that is simply IMHO.

Then it is my duty to inform you that in my humble opinion your speculation is absurd