Jackson, dragged through the gutter.

[Jackie]

*sighs*

Hasn't anyone heard? Action Jackson IS NOT Daniel. Our Daniel never came back after ascension. He's still eating waffles in the cafe. It's really Anubis being forced to play Daniel for the sole entertainment of the Others.. Daniel might have thought twice about using a device to wipe out the entire Ori. But Danubis had no problem with it.

Anubis also tends to sound more like Jack than Daniel. So, Danubis seems a bit like the two all rolled into one.

It wasn't Daniel who gave Vala a butt ripping speech before jumping into bed with her. Or even attempted to talk the Asgard out of killing themselves. Or even try to understand why Thor would choose such a drastic measure. It was Anubis who just shrugged and great with it. Heck, he got the Asgard core.

So, yes Anubis is a hypocrite but just think of the laughs oma is getting right now.

[SGFerrit]

Did you watch the queen. It's only necessary to wipe them all out if you want it that way and that seems to be the way they want it. What do you want to bet they completely abandon the idea of the gene therapy now and just brush it under the rug.

Don't be too sure:

Spoiler:

It seems like Identity will continue the storyline, it's been called a follow-up to The Queen, written by the same guy I think? The spoilers are sketchy, but I think that ep could continue on with the Expedition trying to help the Wraith change their food supply. Todd's in it too apparently.

[Integrabyte]

*sighs*

Hasn't anyone heard? Action Jackson IS NOT Daniel. Our Daniel never came back after ascension. He's still eating waffles in the cafe. It's really Anubis being forced to play Daniel for the sole entertainment of the Others.. Daniel might have thought twice about using a device to wipe out the entire Ori. But Danubis had no problem with it.

Anubis also tends to sound more like Jack than Daniel. So, Danubis seems a bit like the two all rolled into one.

It wasn't Daniel who gave Vala a butt ripping speech before jumping into bed with her. Or even attempted to talk the Asgard out of killing themselves. Or even try to understand why Thor would choose such a drastic measure. It was Anubis who just shrugged and great with it. Heck, he got the Asgard core.

So, yes Anubis is a hypocrite but just think of the laughs oma is getting right now.

I so disagree . Before he ascended, Daniel was a tree hugger. After Fallen he became cool and mature. It was a pleasure to watch him. In SGA it wasn't him. I am not talking about the whole Action JAckson approach...I love that...I am talking about the miserable writing for a person who discovered Atlantis and it is Disneyland for him. How long did he actually stay in Atlantis? 1 night .

[Pitry]

*mumble*
nuthin' wrong with treee huggers.

*goes to hug a tree*

[CarnalPIE]

Did you watch the queen. It's only necessary to wipe them all out if you want it that way and that seems to be the way they want it. What do you want to bet they completely abandon the idea of the gene therapy now and just brush it under the rug.

I saw The Queen. And you're simplifying things a LITTLE bit. It's not an either/or situation because first you have to convince all the Wraith to take the drug and transform into being able to survive on food. That, my friends, is going to be a tall task. That is much easier said than done. So if there's a way to just wipe them out right now, you're saving thousands of human lives. How many humans get fed on each and every day across the galaxy?

[Laura Dove]

So if there's a way to just wipe them out right now, you're saving thousands of human lives. How many humans get fed on each and every day across the galaxy?

Not so much. We know since "Instinct" that a wraith eats something like 5-10 humans a year, i.e. something like 1 human every 2 months.

[dasNdanger]

... How many humans get fed on each and every day across the galaxy?

Probably not as many as get killed in real life, right here on earth, from wars and violent crime, at the hands of other humans. And we don't kill for sustanence, but out of fear and greed and hate.

Wraith kill in order to live, humans kill because they like it. There is a difference.

das

[Ouroboros]

I can see where Todd is coming from. By getting the gene therapy to allow the Wraith to eat normal food, what will become of the Wraith and their way of life.

I can see this fairly easily. I live in Canada (specifically in a region where theres not much of an Asian population). If some "white guy" gave me an offer to change the color of my skin to white, while maintaining all other characteristics, would I be accepting of the idea?

Should I abandon everything about myself, so that I can fit in with the rest of the population?

I think this point is valid. The Wraith are not evil. Thats the foodchain.

I saw The Queen. And you're simplifying things a LITTLE bit. It's not an either/or situation because first you have to convince all the Wraith to take the drug and transform into being able to survive on food. That, my friends, is going to be a tall task. That is much easier said than done. So if there's a way to just wipe them out right now, you're saving thousands of human lives. How many humans get fed on each and every day across the galaxy?

Yeah it's pretty much a given that they're going to have fears and doubts about the whole thing. It's a huge change that's going to completely redefine everything about their lives. The fact they've already actually expressed an interest in the idea is a huge help though.

That's where diplomacy comes into the picture really. A good diplomat needs to show Todd and friends that while this will be a massive change for his kind it will also be a positive one. It will grant them unprecidented freedom, the ability to go wherever they want and do whatever they want without constantly having to worry about catching and feeding on humans or starving to death or being plunged into war if they can't. There's all sorts of stuff one could bring up as postive consequences of the treatment for him and that's really what a diplomats job is, negotiating with the other side to make these sorts of agreements possible. Hammering out all the details, addressing all the individual fears and concerns, responding to any sort of counter offers or arguments, making future arangements to maintain the relationship etc. It really could make for a fairly interesting process with a good writer behind it. There's a lot of issues to potentially cover.

Stabbing them in the back when you've already commited to at least try this is unacceptable in my opinion. Teyla risked her life to broker the deal with Todd's alliance and to just throw that and a chance at peace away to go back to the "got to kill them all" nonsense seems ridiculous in an almost mustache twirling villian sort of way. Like someone's somehow forcing them to play nice and act like civlized beings but they'd really secretly rather paint the galaxy in Wraith blood so the fist chance they get to do it well, "muahahahahaha, we had you fooled all along Todd, now witness your DOOM!".

You are completely out of touch with the character of daniel jackson. Ever since his return in season 7 hes been on a darker path. You must have missed the guy who wanted to kill khalek, or shoot little girl adria. Why dont you just be more honest and scream Waaahhhh waaahhhh this isnt what i want waahhhh! It fits with the established cannon of Sg1

Your attempt to bait me with your childish nonsense not withstanding you'd have to stretch things pretty far to say that anything he's done on this "darker path" of his equates to signing off on the genocide of an entire sentient species that as far as he knows they're currently trying to make peace with.

Jackson is not the type of man who's going to throw away a chance at peaceful co-existence with an alien species in exchange for the expedient genocide of all of them instead. He's also not stupid enough to not be able to spot the inherent hyporcisy in the foolish "it's ok for you guys to kill all of them but morally horrible to kill any of us" argument he was made to spout here.

[hyzmarca]

There are very good strategic reasons to wipe out the wraith and very good strategic reasons to not wipe out the wraith.

The most obvious question raised by this gene therapy is one that has not yet been asked. If the wraith no longer need humans, then why bother keeping them around? Many wraith are willing to wipe out entire planets full of delicious people as a risk-management tactic in the face violent resistance. Wiping out all human world would end the human threat once and for all. Some would consider it, certainly. The wraith's dependence on humans has prevented this so far. Remove that dependence and it is possible that the conflict will escalate, rather than any peace being achieved.

The best solutions, then, mitigate this risk. One way is to keep the wraith dependent on humans, but the gene therapy does not necessarily do this. Even if it requires maintenance, the wraith should be able to reverse engineer it in due time. The other way is to wipe out the wraith entirely.

Of course, there are better ways to achieve lasting peace than the gene therapy. One could, for example, provide the wraith with a steady supply of humans from Earth. Industrializing Asgard cloning techniques to create a bunch of copies of a guy with an extreme energy vampire fetish allows one to accomplish this without sending anyone to a fate that they would not enjoy.

This, of course, requires finding a guy who wants to be killed by energy vampires (there is this thing called the internet; with it, this task is trivial) and cloning him any times.

But why would we want to keep the wraith around?, you ask. Many reasons. First of all, the wraith can grow ships. If they were willing to share that technology, maintaining peace on the Milky Way would be a heck of a lot easier. For another, the Wraith's natural ability to heal and de-age people makes them the best doctors and medics in the universe. They can save countless lives, and extend countless lives with no known limit. That alone makes an alliance with them, as they are now, incredibly desirable.

And with their healing abilities, their durability and strength, and their unique methods of extracting information, they'd be invaluable in places like Iraq.

Of course, they're still dangerous, and there is always a chance that any plan to mitigate by forcing them to be dependent on Earth will fail, or worse. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, they say; but the opposite of that maxim is also true.

If World War II taught us anything, it is that final solutions are, in fact, the best solutions, but only if you win.

Thus, activating the device was a stupid idea but deactivating it was an even stupider idea, and the gene therapy was the stupidest idea of all.

There are two traits that have always been consistent about Daniel Jackson, he thinks outside the box, and he leads with his heart.
He would have certainly noticed that cloning people who want to be eaten would be far superior a solution to the gene therapy, though his moral inclinations might keep him from making the suggestion, and he wasn't really dealing with the wraith, anyway, so the fact that he didn't make this observation isn't that bad. However, the fact that he did not argue against killing the wraith most certainly is. One thing is consistent with every murderous decision that Daniel Jackson ever made, he did it out of personal hatred. The Goa'uld Larva were killed because he was angry that his wife had just been taken. Murdering the children of the person who wronged him was simply a guilty pleasure, one that everyone should have a chance to enjoy. Likewise, his decision to kill Khalek was colored by his personal hatred for Anubis, and his fear of Anubis, both from experience. Adria and The Ori were also both decisions driven by fear and hatred cultivated by personal experience.

Having no personal experience with the wraith, he would have had the capacity to think about things objectivly and he would have let his compassion guide him. He also would have pointed out to the Asgard he spoke with that they don't have to hide out in Pagasus anymore and that they can, in fact, go to either the Milky Way or their home Galaxy and be perfectly safe. But, most importantly, he never would have allowed the device to be turned on. He would have died first.

[Trig]

I was gonna post about Jackson in FC/TLT, it wasnt Jackson, after 9 Seasons of Jackson and 2 films we get this character show up who just wasn't Jackson IMHO...

[Atlanis]

Earth is at war with the wraith we want to stop them form feeding on humans we are not Goa'uld we don't take the easy way in stopping them, if we did that in world war two we'd have nuked Berlin and Tokyo and any other of their cities until they were destroyed or they surrendered unconditionally

[NoobTau'ri]

There are very good strategic reasons to wipe out the wraith and very good strategic reasons to not wipe out the wraith.

The most obvious question raised by this gene therapy is one that has not yet been asked. If the wraith no longer need humans, then why bother keeping them around? Many wraith are willing to wipe out entire planets full of delicious people as a risk-management tactic in the face violent resistance. Wiping out all human world would end the human threat once and for all. Some would consider it, certainly. The wraith's dependence on humans has prevented this so far. Remove that dependence and it is possible that the conflict will escalate, rather than any peace being achieved.

The best solutions, then, mitigate this risk. One way is to keep the wraith dependent on humans, but the gene therapy does not necessarily do this. Even if it requires maintenance, the wraith should be able to reverse engineer it in due time. The other way is to wipe out the wraith entirely.

Of course, there are better ways to achieve lasting peace than the gene therapy. One could, for example, provide the wraith with a steady supply of humans from Earth. Industrializing Asgard cloning techniques to create a bunch of copies of a guy with an extreme energy vampire fetish allows one to accomplish this without sending anyone to a fate that they would not enjoy.

This, of course, requires finding a guy who wants to be killed by energy vampires (there is this thing called the internet; with it, this task is trivial) and cloning him any times.

But why would we want to keep the wraith around?, you ask. Many reasons. First of all, the wraith can grow ships. If they were willing to share that technology, maintaining peace on the Milky Way would be a heck of a lot easier. For another, the Wraith's natural ability to heal and de-age people makes them the best doctors and medics in the universe. They can save countless lives, and extend countless lives with no known limit. That alone makes an alliance with them, as they are now, incredibly desirable.

And with their healing abilities, their durability and strength, and their unique methods of extracting information, they'd be invaluable in places like Iraq.

Of course, they're still dangerous, and there is always a chance that any plan to mitigate by forcing them to be dependent on Earth will fail, or worse. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, they say; but the opposite of that maxim is also true.

If World War II taught us anything, it is that final solutions are, in fact, the best solutions, but only if you win.

Thus, activating the device was a stupid idea but deactivating it was an even stupider idea, and the gene therapy was the stupidest idea of all.

There are two traits that have always been consistent about Daniel Jackson, he thinks outside the box, and he leads with his heart.
He would have certainly noticed that cloning people who want to be eaten would be far superior a solution to the gene therapy, though his moral inclinations might keep him from making the suggestion, and he wasn't really dealing with the wraith, anyway, so the fact that he didn't make this observation isn't that bad. However, the fact that he did not argue against killing the wraith most certainly is. One thing is consistent with every murderous decision that Daniel Jackson ever made, he did it out of personal hatred. The Goa'uld Larva were killed because he was angry that his wife had just been taken. Murdering the children of the person who wronged him was simply a guilty pleasure, one that everyone should have a chance to enjoy. Likewise, his decision to kill Khalek was colored by his personal hatred for Anubis, and his fear of Anubis, both from experience. Adria and The Ori were also both decisions driven by fear and hatred cultivated by personal experience.

Having no personal experience with the wraith, he would have had the capacity to think about things objectivly and he would have let his compassion guide him. He also would have pointed out to the Asgard he spoke with that they don't have to hide out in Pagasus anymore and that they can, in fact, go to either the Milky Way or their home Galaxy and be perfectly safe. But, most importantly, he never would have allowed the device to be turned on. He would have died first.

Just because some masochist wants to be eaten alive it doesen't mean his clones will too. The last time I checked, clones are different people than the original, even if the DNA is the same. Identical twins have a lot in common, but they still have individual personalities and they see themselves as individuals and not as a single person occupying many bodies.

[FallenAngelII]

Two is the lucky number so far. First Sam and now Daniel. Horrible writing and it was an insult to SG1 fans.

Richard Woolsey started out as an SG-1 character. And look at where he's now. Clown in "First Contact" and barely there in "The Lost Thribe", an awfully familiar pattern.

[ZOMG!b_cs]

I have to agree that it seemed Daniel wasn't entirely in character here. MG is not my favorite (and I'm pretty sure this is one of his eps) ~ so I blame things like Sam & Daniel portrayed poorly in Atlantis on him.

For me it wasn't his interaction with the Asgard, but some of the interaction with Rodney. Some of it was ok, but seemed forced or something? First Contact wasn't bad, but it progressively worsened through this ep.

Just my opinion. Maybe I'll feel differently if I watch it again or something.

[Integrabyte]

Richard Woolsey started out as an SG-1 character. And look at where he's now. Clown in "First Contact" and barely there in "The Lost Thribe", an awfully familiar pattern.

Woolsey started as the annoying paper pusher holding our heroes back . He was not very liked in SG1 and he kept the same behaviour in SGA. He crossed over, became the leader and he had amazing moments. I liked him, but as you say, he became invisible. Turning now to Daniel, one can see that the writers tried to combine witty banter with action. I had a VALA and DANIEL deja vu whenever I saw Rodney but...it did not work because SG1 characters crossing over become new characters. I like the new Daniel after Fallen and I find him more interesting than the early Daniel but this whole two parter seemed wrong for him. The chemistry was bad, the writing did not do them justice. The script simply reduced both Rodney and Daniel. Both actors have great potential but...they could not do anything in these two episodes.