Ronon doing stupid things to further the plot....again

[SoulReaver]

[Xaeden]

when ?

"Travelers" - Sheppard dropped out of hyperspace within a few hours reach of a Spacegate by jumper (it would've been faster for the sublight engines of a capital ship). While he may have been purposely heading there, he got lucky that he was so close when Larrin forced his hand.

trust me on this one, if something is completely destroyed then it's impossible to repair (unless the wraith build it from scratch, but it's doubtful they're that good)

If the hyperspace engine itself is completely destroyed, yes. But, if just the crystals themselves are completely destroyed, there's no telling that they can't find a workaround without knowing how exactly it works (we saw them completely shatter and we don't know if they got it to work because Ronon didn't get them all and there was a way to get it to function with what they had left or there was some other way to get the hyperdrive engine going).

actually there's nothing solid to suggest this (we are talking about Ronon, right ? -)
as far as he was concerned they were just big glowy "shootable" things

Actually there is. After stating his intent (and explaining he knew how to "do all that") he went right to the hyperdrive engine, shot the tray, and then moved on to others and made it sound like he very much had a good idea where the lifesupport tray was (as opposed to saying; "I don't know, I'm just shooting stuff," he was semi-confident in his claim of which one was lifesupport). Which suggests he learned a bit about the Daedalus' systems after the incident in "Daedalus Variations." How much he learned we can't know, but he clearly wasn't completely ignorant as to what everything was.

[SoulReaver]

While he may have been purposely heading there

which makes all the difference

If the hyperspace engine itself is completely destroyed, yes. But, if just the crystals themselves are completely destroyed, there's no telling that they can't find a workaround without knowing how exactly it works (we saw them completely shatter and we don't know if they got it to work because Ronon didn't get them all and there was a way to get it to function with what they had left or there was some other way to get the hyperdrive engine going).

somehow he managed to irreversibly disable the weapons system (and there's more than 1 kinda weapon on the ship - at least 3) so he could've done likewise with the warp system had he not stopped at that one shot

Actually there is. After stating his intent (and explaining he knew how to "do all that") he went right to the hyperdrive engine, shot the tray, and then moved on to others and made it sound like he very much had a good idea where the lifesupport tray was (as opposed to saying; "I don't know, I'm just shooting stuff," he was semi-confident in his claim of which one was lifesupport). Which suggests he learned a bit about the Daedalus' systems after the incident in "Daedalus Variations." How much he learned we can't know, but he clearly wasn't completely ignorant as to what everything was.

watch carefully the scene :

keller> "what if you take out the life support ?"
ronan> "don't worry the life support system's that tray...at least I'm pretty sure it is"

he was being a smartass, and knew jack about what he was shooting at

I especially like when Keller says "ok we're out of hyperspace that's enough" (now there's some common sense) and Ronan gets one last shot before leaving the room. u know, just for the sake of it. lol. if that ain't "just shooting stuff", I dunno what is

besides when shooting things that could make the ship go kaboom, "semi-confidence" is as good as no confidence, btw Ronan gets my vote of no-confidence on this one :|



sure he must've learnt stuff about the ship. he knew where the blue glowy things were and he knew they'd make tempting targets some day. so in a way yes he knew exactly what he was doing : shooting stuff

[DragonLadyK]

I disagree.

As Marks proved at the end of the ep, locking someone out of the system only works if your hacker is better than their hacker -- and Todd's hacker is very good. Physically destroying the equiment means no one can operate it except someone who knows how to fix it and where the spares are. (Which the Wraith wouldn't have been able to do if TPTB hadn't swooped in and magically endowed them with an intimate understanding of Asgard technology.) Defeating a lockout would have given the Wraith access to everything. Such as it was they were only able to (magically) cobble together a patch for only the hyperdrive. And yes, there are definitely spare parts -- we learned that from McKay and Zelenka in "No Man's Land" where there were enough spare parts for about half a life-support system despite the damage they took in battle and losing a cargo bay. Ronon's damage wasn't severe, but it was strategic.

Second: Ronon had no idea about the Attero device or Todd's intentions. All he knew was a Wraith took over the Daedalus. That's it. Remember, Ronon was around for the debacle with Michael's hive in "Allies," and for Todd trying to restart the cloning facility in "Spoils." Even without that, he and Teyla (who are Pegasus natives and know the Wraith far better than the MW crew) always suspect Wraith motives: after all, "they are Wraith." Asking Ronon to trust Todd took over the Daedalus for A Very Good Reason is itself unreasonable.

Third: Todd was bluffing (in a very stereotypical manner). Wraith eat humans, remember? As far as Ronon knew the Wraith weren't going to refrain from killing the crew no matter what he did. Therefore, in Ronon's mind, they were in a minimal loss scenario. Every moment both of them were alive and free is one more step towards retaking the ship.

Fourth, Ronon is very familiar with the layout of the Daedalus -- he knew the service hatches as well as the halls. I don't think I am amiss to believe that "at least I think it is" wasn't jerking Jennifer's chain the same way he jerked McKay's chain in "Tracker."

DragonLady

[Xaeden]

which makes all the difference

It does only because if he was heading for Atlantis it's much more unlikely that he would've been passing so close to a Stargate at that point of time. Where as if he was heading there, it's less amazing that he just happened to have gotten 98% of the way there before Larrin forced him to drop out of hyperspace.

somehow he managed to irreversibly disable the weapons system (and there's more than 1 kinda weapon on the ship - at least 3) so he could've done likewise with the warp system had he not stopped at that one shot

He shot two out of three of the systems only one time and again, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. The ship could've had backup crystals for the hyperspace engine tray since it was so important and not the others or it could've been designed with a way to operate under a limited capacity as a plan B for all we know.

watch carefully the scene :

keller> "what if you take out the life support ?"
ronan> "don't worry the life support system's that tray...at least I'm pretty sure it is"

he was being a smartass, and knew jack about what he was shooting at

I especially like when Keller says "ok we're out of hyperspace that's enough" (now there's some common sense) and Ronan gets one last shot before leaving the room. u know, just for the sake of it. lol. if that ain't "just shooting stuff", I dunno what is

I've watched it several times and to me he looks to be completely serious about the; "Don't worry the life support system's that tray," part. On the first viewing I thought he was being a smartass about the part about not being sure, but upon repeated viewing I think he was genuine throughout the scene.

besides when shooting things that could make the ship go kaboom, "semi-confidence" is as good as no confidence, btw Ronan gets my vote of no-confidence on this one :|

For like the third time - He had semi-confidence in the location of something he didn't shoot. That does not mean he didn't have full confidence in the things he did shoot. I have a bunch of neighbors on my block, some I can place with the exact house they live in if you show me their face, some I have no idea about, and some I'm pretty sure where they live but cannot be certain. However, I can rule out the houses I am sure of - For all we know that's the situation Ronon was in.

[SoulReaver]

He shot two out of three of the systems only one time and again, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. The ship could've had backup crystals for the hyperspace engine tray since it was so important and not the others or it could've been designed with a way to operate under a limited capacity as a plan B for all we know.

major speculation here
more like the weapons being disabled was simply due to the fact that they (conveniently) took a tad more shots than the hyperdrive

For like the third time - He had semi-confidence in the location of something he didn't shoot. That does not mean he didn't have full confidence in the things he did shoot. I have a bunch of neighbors on my block, some I can place with the exact house they live in if you show me their face, some I have no idea about, and some I'm pretty sure where they live but cannot be certain. However, I can rule out the houses I am sure of - For all we know that's the situation Ronon was in.

for the nth time - there has yet to be evidence that he knew what he was shooting at (sure the writers have pulled of miracles before, and next thing we know they might even have him repair a damaged hyperdrive himself just to avert another inconsistency, and raise suspension of disbelief yet another notch)

I've watched it several times and to me he looks to be completely serious about the; "Don't worry the life support system's that tray," part. On the first viewing I thought he was being a smartass about the part about not being sure, but upon repeated viewing I think he was genuine throughout the scene.

yeah well I had the same 1st impression as you but I still stand by it...guess we'll agree to disagree here

[Sevenofnine]

Shooting the control crystals of the hyperdrive and weapons was really stupid - removing crystals would still accomplish the same thing - shooting the controls would leave them stranded in space and vulnerable, even if they had an enemy on this ship - sabotage not destruction is the way to go - so that it can be repaired when the tables are turned. Plus I think Ronon was too testosterone hyped to really think straight! And yes I think he ran for cover when Keller said their was someone else. He could have taken it like a man and said the best man won!

[Lahela]

And what else was he supposed to do? Take them out and leave them in the engineering room? Hardly. Take them out and try to find somewhere to hide them? And what if he'd been captured or killed with them in his possession? The critical thing to do at that point was to disable the ship and he did that, very effectively. He had no idea where they were going or what the wraith were planning, he had no backup and no way of knowing if the crew were even alive. He did what needed to be done to prevent the wraith from carrying out whatever they had planned and at the same time prevented them from hijacking the ship with all its tech, to the best of his abilities under the circumstances. And if he and the crew had lost their lives in the process? Well he wouldn't be the first soldier to sacrifice a few lives for the sake of keeping weapons or technology out of enemy hands and thereby saving countless more lives.

[Cronus]

One thing I would ask, since this seems to be question time for Ronon - why did he head down to the hanger bay on his own? It was full of Wraith in their own ship - did he really think he could take them all on?

Plus, later the hanger bay depressurises and no one seems to care Ronon could be down there. What happened to him? Was he just lazy and didn't get down there in time? Fell asleep in a corridor?

[Lahela]

One thing I would ask, since this seems to be question time for Ronon - why did he head down to the hanger bay on his own? It was full of Wraith in their own ship - did he really think he could take them all on?

Plus, later the hanger bay depressurises and no one seems to care Ronon could be down there. What happened to him? Was he just lazy and didn't get down there in time? Fell asleep in a corridor?

Because the writers have absolutely no idea what to do when there are more than three people in a room

[DragonLadyK]

It seems like Ronon goes out of character everytime he is around Keller. Its almost as if PTB have to change the character just to get their stupid love triangle to work.

So glad they've ended that though.

I'm going to have to agree with that 100%.

DragonLady

[nx01a]

Ronon grunt! Ronon shoot! Keller no like!

YESYESYES!!! I'm quite heartened by the choice to portray him in that way AND to have her call him on it. Without Shep or Teyla there, Ronon goes into GRUNTKILL mode. He's a thug with no aspirations to become anything more than a thug. Her frustration [and disgust?] with him was exactly what I felt when watching his actions. If he had destroyed a hyperdrive crystal and made the engine go critical, I would have applauded. Blindly destroying everything is always a last resort.

Having shot Ronon down, I hope Keller is in a similar situation with Rodney [a la him and Dr. Browne in 'Quarantine'] where she realizes how much of an appendage he is and similarly shoots him down afterwards. The real question would be who she's really interested in?

[mellow yellow]

I disagree.

As Marks proved at the end of the ep, locking someone out of the system only works if your hacker is better than their hacker -- and Todd's hacker is very good. Physically destroying the equiment means no one can operate it except someone who knows how to fix it and where the spares are. (Which the Wraith wouldn't have been able to do if TPTB hadn't swooped in and magically endowed them with an intimate understanding of Asgard technology.) Defeating a lockout would have given the Wraith access to everything. Such as it was they were only able to (magically) cobble together a patch for only the hyperdrive. And yes, there are definitely spare parts -- we learned that from McKay and Zelenka in "No Man's Land" where there were enough spare parts for about half a life-support system despite the damage they took in battle and losing a cargo bay. Ronon's damage wasn't severe, but it was strategic.

Second: Ronon had no idea about the Attero device or Todd's intentions. All he knew was a Wraith took over the Daedalus. That's it. Remember, Ronon was around for the debacle with Michael's hive in "Allies," and for Todd trying to restart the cloning facility in "Spoils." Even without that, he and Teyla (who are Pegasus natives and know the Wraith far better than the MW crew) always suspect Wraith motives: after all, "they are Wraith." Asking Ronon to trust Todd took over the Daedalus for A Very Good Reason is itself unreasonable.

Third: Todd was bluffing (in a very stereotypical manner). Wraith eat humans, remember? As far as Ronon knew the Wraith weren't going to refrain from killing the crew no matter what he did. Therefore, in Ronon's mind, they were in a minimal loss scenario. Every moment both of them were alive and free is one more step towards retaking the ship.

Fourth, Ronon is very familiar with the layout of the Daedalus -- he knew the service hatches as well as the halls. I don't think I am amiss to believe that "at least I think it is" wasn't jerking Jennifer's chain the same way he jerked McKay's chain in "Tracker."

DragonLady

And what else was he supposed to do? Take them out and leave them in the engineering room? Hardly. Take them out and try to find somewhere to hide them? And what if he'd been captured or killed with them in his possession? The critical thing to do at that point was to disable the ship and he did that, very effectively. He had no idea where they were going or what the wraith were planning, he had no backup and no way of knowing if the crew were even alive. He did what needed to be done to prevent the wraith from carrying out whatever they had planned and at the same time prevented them from hijacking the ship with all its tech, to the best of his abilities under the circumstances. And if he and the crew had lost their lives in the process? Well he wouldn't be the first soldier to sacrifice a few lives for the sake of keeping weapons or technology out of enemy hands and thereby saving countless more lives.

Agree. I've noticed going through the thread that valid arguments to support Ronon's actions are just ignored. I think if Teyla was there she would have understood and agreed with Ronon. The Wraith can't be trusted and they can't have the ship especially with weapons in tact and if they were to all end up dead because of it then it was well worth it. Jenn isn't military and compared to Ronon and Teyla the nice folks from Earth have lived a sheltered life when it comes to dealing with Wraiths.

[EdenSG]

I really don’t see how Ronon acted all that irrationally.

All he knew was that the ship was taken over by the Wraith and the Human crew was imprisoned. He did not know about Rodney & Daniel being taken prisoner, he did not know about the Altero device and he did know about Stargates exploding. All he knew was that the Wraith had taken command of the Daedelus and imprisoned the crew – and he did know that it was a bad thing to have Wraith in command of the Dady with its Asgard weapons and the capability of reaching Earth.

It seems to me Ronon’s plan was rather straight forward, disable the ship then free and arm the crew to take back the ship. Under the circumstances and with the information he had I think his course of action was justified. I believe any other military crew member that had been in Ronon’s position would have done the same.

It did not look to me that Ronon was firing indiscriminately in the engine room. There wasn’t any wild shooting. He took out just three trays located at different points from each other. When he took out the second panel he then walked across the room to take out the last panel. He took out three very distinct panels, and disabled three things, weapons, hyperdrive and shields. I got the impression he knew what systems he was aiming for.

As to other courses of action?
He could have taken the crystals but than Todd could have threatened to kill the crew on by one till he returned them.

Let Keller turn herself in to buy time?
I am not sure if it is reasonable to let a civilian doctor turn herself into the enemy to ‘buy time’ and hope that he was bluffing by saying he wouldn’t hurt you. If she had been killed how would he ever justify that decision to anyone? In fact if Keller hadn’t turned herself in and Todd was preoccupied with trying to find them, maybe they could have freed the crew and gotten to the bridge before Todd set the ship on a collision course with the planet.

Maybe there was another way?
Hindsight is 20/20 and there is always another way. But considering this was Ronon, and he did not know what the Wraith plans were – for all he knew they could be heading back to Atlantis so Todd could destroy it or take that over too- he had to act quickly and definitively. The military mandate is clear – disable the ship so the enemy can’t use it against you and then attempt to take back control of the ship.

Actually, in some ways I even thought Ronon acted a bit more rationally than usual. The Ronon of season 2 would have been less likely to bother with the Daedelus crew. I could see that early Ronon deciding unilaterally that he was going to take the ship back and trying to accomplish this by simply killing Wraith. I liked the fact that he had a plan for getting back control of the ship that included freeing and arming the crew to help him – I even thought it showed a bit of character growth.