Ronon doing stupid things to further the plot....again

[Col.Foley]

That's the most oft used excuse for irrational and rash behaviour.

Killing everyone and destroying a very valuable ship (remember, Earth doesn't have many) is always a last resort. That's the plan only after all other plans have been exhausted and there's noting left to do but die.

Ronon refused to consider, let alone engage in, another plan of attack. He had his heart and mind set of debilitating the ship and by God, he was ready to do it no matter what.

That's the sort of character I don't like watching.

True.
Although he did know, or his guess was obviously right, that the life support was really there. Once again. All he did was disable the ship. Which bought him valuable time to manuever, and free the crew, and take back the ship. Because again, who knew what Todd would have done with that ship in any time.
Although you can argue that Ronon can't think in those grande strategic concerns, and I might even agree with you.

Heh, obviously we have definite different philosophical views!!

That's a valid point, but, alas, Ronon didn't even try to come up with a plan that wouldn't have been so dangerous. Keller's plan to turn herself in whilst Ronon further sabotaged the ship and freed the crew had tangible benefits, it bought Ronon time to save the crew without him having to sacrifice a few along the way, but he refused to accept it, he wasn't really all that interested in saving the crew is what I saw from that.

That just might be the fact that he loves her. I do not think he is right mind you, and that is not an excuse. But that is where his refusal of that plan came from. And he tried to rationilize it by 'he's bluffing' He did care for the crew, I think. Just, one of them in particular.
Now that i think about it, I can be good sometimes.

[dasNdanger]

But Ronon knew NONE of this. He did not know about a device, or anything. All he knew was that a being that they claimed to be friendly, betrayed him, and took the ship. That is it. And with that knowlege, he acted in the best way possible. Dissable the ship, buy time, prevent your opponent from doing what he wants to do with that ship.

True, he knew none of this. However, a good soldier takes stock of the situation before acting rashly, and Ronon failed to do this. He just started 'blowing things up', which - after a bit - does tend to get old.

If you look at it blindly from Ronon's standpoint, you CAN understand why he did what he did. Still, he should know by now that it is best to listen to a voice of reason (Keller, in this case) before reacting. I just think it's putting the character right back into S2-mode, when he should have grown a bit by now, and which he seemed to be doing in S4, but now it seems he's had a bit of a set back.

das

[Pandora's_Box]

True.
Although he did know, or his guess was obviously right, that the life support was really there. Once again. All he did was disable the ship. Which bought him valuable time to manuever, and free the crew, and take back the ship. Because again, who knew what Todd would have done with that ship in any time.

But he could have done that by removing some control crystals and hiding them so that they could bring the ship back online if that became necessary. Utter destruction of everything was not completely necessary.

Although you can argue that Ronon can't think in those grande strategic concerns, and I might even agree with you.

Yay! A point we agree on!

[Col.Foley]

True, he knew none of this. However, a good soldier takes stock of the situation before acting rashly, and Ronon failed to do this. He just started 'blowing things up', which - after a bit - does tend to get old.

If you look at it blindly from Ronon's standpoint, you CAN understand why he did what he did. Still, he should know by now that it is best to listen to a voice of reason (Keller, in this case) before reacting. I just think it's putting the character right back into S2-mode, when he should have grown a bit by now, and which he seemed to be doing in S4, but now it seems he's had a bit of a set back.

das

True.
But then again, sometimes soldiers also have to be quick, and decisive. Especially in a time sensitive case.
ANd if you want to take another angle on it, he did the same thing that Mitchell, Jackson, or Shep would have done.

[GateofDOOM]

So, with that in mind - what makes McKay and Jackson more valuable (besides the whole 'they're the stars' thing) than thousands and thousands of human beings? Two lives, for the many - it is more than a fair exchange. Afterall, just to save their necks, McKay (primarily) and Jackson were more than willing to start up a device that would push the Wraith to extinction. They were willing to lend a hand in the extermination of an entire race of sentient beings - beings who were, at that very moment, on the verge of accepting a plan that may make it possible to live in peace with humans - without batting an eye.

So, keep things in perspective. No Wraith killed humans in this episode. Ronon not only killed Wraith who were attempting to maintain an alliance with the Lanteans, but he sabotaged the ship in such a way that Todd had no other choice but to sacrifice its crew in order to stop the device. Ronon's actions were rash, and irresponsible.

I must have missed this!, bold by ME.

Green for this first one that I failed to mention.


As to the second one; definitely some disjoint there, from what M/J did to what they knew (or, at least McKay knew) was happening onboard the Daedalus. In many ways they are also largely responsible for the end of the alliance that never was.


And the third; INDEED! Although I extend Ronon some forgiveness for the wraith killing, as he probably didn't know that Todd hadn't killed anyone (although he did assume, and you know what they say about assuming things...)

(In all fairness, I have to add that Todd also acted rashly in taking control of the Daedalus. However, after learning that Shep & Co. were not truly responsible for the activation of the Attero device, Todd showed visible regret over taking command of the ship when Keller questioned him about it - he's uneasiness was nothing less than an acknowledgement (at least to himself) that he had been wrong about the Lanteans. Even if it is only to himself, at least Todd acknowledges his missteps, something Ronon isn't likely to do, at least not in this case.)



das

Very, very important. Ronon never, ever, questions his own actions. It is almost as if he doesn't have a solid concept of what is right and wrong when it comes to himself. He just...does. Very bizarre now that I think about it.

[Col.Foley]

But he could have done that by removing some control crystals and hiding them so that they could bring the ship back online if that became necessary. Utter destruction of everything was not completely necessary.



Yay! A point we agree on!

True true. Actually he might have been able to take one or two jey crystals with him on his way to, so, good point there. I do have to admit.
Yep.

[GateofDOOM]

That just might be the fact that he loves her. I do not think he is right mind you, and that is not an excuse. But that is where his refusal of that plan came from. And he tried to rationilize it by 'he's bluffing' He did care for the crew, I think. Just, one of them in particular.
Now that i think about it, I can be good sometimes.

Ah, blinded by love! I guess I put the more negative spin on it. *whistles un-suspiciously*


Heh. Poor old Ronon! Can't think straight with Jennifer kicking around!

[Col.Foley]

Ah, blinded by love! I guess I put the more negative spin on it. *whistles un-suspiciously*


Heh. Poor old Ronon! Can't think straight with Jennifer kicking around!

Yeah. Poor him. The truly universal desease.
Heck, I would not even be able to think straight if certain people are not around.
*tries not to look too pointedly at the bottom part of his screen*

[Pandora's_Box]

Very, very important. Ronon never, ever, questions his own actions. It is almost as if he doesn't have a solid concept of what is right and wrong when it comes to himself. He just...does. Very bizarre now that I think about it.

There's a word for that, you know.

[GateofDOOM]

Yeah. Poor him. The truly universal desease.
Heck, I would not even be able to think straight if certain people are not around.
*tries not to look too pointedly at the bottom part of his screen*

Now you got me feeling sorry for the hapless bugger!

There's a word for that, you know.

There is? *feels ignorant*

Amoral?

(This is the longest a thread of mine has ever lasted! Wahoo!)

[Pandora's_Box]

Now you got me feeling sorry for the hapless bugger!

RESIST!

There is? *feels ignorant*

Amoral?

Not quite. It wasn't really coming to me even though I know it exists. I was attempting to be ll cool and cryptic, but that evidently failed.

Amoral means without morality so that doesn't apply because he does have a sense of morality.

Narcissistic? Or is that too harsh?

[Jack_Bauer]

Here I was thinking that we were well shot of season two Ronon; the Ronon that shot first, didn't bother asking questions.

Now, Ronon has always demonstrated an alarming tendency to provoke conflict and has always been a royal pain in the butt when the SGA was conducting peace talks, Common Ground was particularly annoying in this regard (Oh, but he's always right! Yeah, that act ain't getting old at all). But most aggravating are the situations where Ronon acts like a crazy person and everyone is patting him on the back at the end of the day! Some of the downright moronic things that he has done over the years are praised and lauded, because he managed to shoot everybody down after he'd successfully forced a confrontation.

And now, here, he's at it again. Shoot first never ask questions Ronon returns. But this time, he really was WRONG and the entire crew almost died because of it, yet, they still pat him on the back at the end of the day! Obviously he wasn't privy to Todd's intentions, and he didn't have knowledge about what was going on, so he tried to save the crew right?

Nope, doesn't look that way to me. He wasn't trying to save the crew, find out what's going on or why, he was just trying to stop the wraith. That's it, everything else was far far behind as secondary priorities. I think that is most painfully obvious when he refuses to let Jennifer execute her very sensible plan to buy him more time to free the crew. (He's bluffing?!?! I find it very hard to believe that you actually believe THAT Ronon).
He blasts away at the control crystals without any regard for what that could do to the ship or the people on board, just so long as it stops the wraith. Completely destroy hyperdrive, communications? Don't matter if you take back the ship, you're not going anywhere. Hit life support? Bye, bye everybody. The fact that he didn't completely destroy the hyperdrive and didn't damage communications is purely a matter of plot, Ronon very well could have shooting up the crystals like that (only weapons were completely destroyed, how convenient.) Actually, it seems like he would've gone on shooting up the crystals of Keller hadn't stepped in and stopped him.

And here he proves again how he truly feels about the wraith, can't wait to start shooting them up given any excuse. Very useful in many situations no doubt, but on a ship that was attempting to engage in diplomacy with the Wraith? He's the mission's worst enemy! And his actions force Todd to try and destroy the ship with all passengers aboard, we all know Todd isn't blameless here but Ronon still essentially left him with no choice.

The Atttero device may have been the catalyst, but Ronon Dex is the reason the alliance is moot and countless more humans will die being culled by the wraith. Now everybody, let's pat him on the back.

Teal'c used to do the same thing. but he at least followed most orders

[Col.Foley]

Now you got me feeling sorry for the hapless bugger!



There is? *feels ignorant*

Amoral?

(This is the longest a thread of mine has ever lasted! Wahoo!)

.......
Well yeah, don't actually.

RESIST!



Not quite. It wasn't really coming to me even though I know it exists. I was attempting to be ll cool and cryptic, but that evidently failed.

Amoral means without morality so that doesn't apply because he does have a sense of morality.

Narcissistic? Or is that too harsh?

Nah. He is a pretty descent guy. A bit rash, and hard charging. But in the end, sometimes that approach does work out.
In summation. I still think he did the right thing, based on the intel he had, even though there were better options available to him.

[Pandora's_Box]

Nah. He is a pretty descent guy. A bit rash, and hard charging. But in the end, sometimes that approach does work out.
In summation. I still think he did the right thing, based on the intel he had, even though there were better options available to him.

But....but....does not compute.

How can what he did be the right thing if there were better options available that would have yielded the same results?

[Col.Foley]

But....but....does not compute.

How can what he did be the right thing if there were better options available that would have yielded the same results?

OK. You are trying to take out a target who is going to try and kill you, take him out, and kill him perhaps, but in the least you want to disable him. Now you have two options. You can shoot him in a vital part, to diable him, or you can shoot him in the head to kill him. Both are the 'right' thing to do, both achieve the same results.