So...

[Ncc-72452]

umm our asgards engines were the fastest in the universe except maybe the ancients star drive, and all it would take to exit hyperspace in the atmoshpere is very very strong engines to slow you down and you have to come in at the right angle. i am reasonable certin that our asgards would have had the capability and smartness to pull this off.

I don't think you understand just how fast you are going and how small a window a couple of miles of atmosphere is. You are talking about not only amazing navigation precision, but incredible mechanical wizardry to design a device that disengages EXACTLY when it should. It's not about power in this case, but control. I would not be surprised if our Asgard did have this ability, but I'm not just going to assume they do.

umm, but if they were as advanced as our asgards, then they would have had beaming technology because seeing as just dropping into orbit and pressing a few buttons and then leaving would be alot faster than putting troops on the ground.

Second line of my post, "These Asgard are obviously not as advanced as ours."

Second point, no need to be quick. We're talking about village people here. Who cares how long you take when you have big honkin' armor suits, energy weapons, and energy shields that take a minute of sustained machine gun fire to bring down. I'm thinking swords and bows will be considerably less effective. Necessity is the mother of invention, and there was no need for them to develop a transporter. They weren't going anywhere, and they already have an effective means of securing test subjects.

um, didint the travelers ship in that episode generate a hyperspace window around the deadalus while it was in the atmoshpere?
also, the x302 generated a hyperspace window also while in atmosphere in order to ditch the almost exploding gate and if our naquadria hyperdrive which dosent even work right and the travelers hyperdrive which is barely holding together can do this, it would almost seem stupid for the asgards not to be able to do this.

One word: altitude. At high altitudes, air density is very thin. X302 would take 30 minutes to fall back to earth. That's very high. Deadalus and traveler ship were both still very high when they opened their window. It would be no different than opening a window in a nebula where gas concentration is very low.

That Asgard ship was just a few hundred meters above sea level. Air density would be almost at its highest. That impressed me. Considering that you're traveling tens of thousands of times faster than light (c = 186,282 miles per second) and you drop out within an atmosphere only 4 or five miles high??? That's impressive.

ok, so maybe stagnant isint the right word to use but i think that overall they didint really advance that much i mean sure there might have been some advancemet in the area of survival tech but as for military hardware, i think they lacked a little in this department while the travelers obviously had to make advancements in this area to survive so long whereas the asgards hid themselves and felt safe and kinda let this area go, but they were still at about or perhaps maybe slightly above the travelers level of tech so i wouldnt go so far as to say the travelers were seriously superior, they were both just about equil to each other.

I guess I just don't understand why you assume they wouldn't advance. They'd been going along advancing for thousands of years to the point where 4 Great races form this inspiring alliance. Then, this faction goes to Pegasus and decides, "Well, technology is bad. Let's just stay away from that"??? They're under constant threat of being discovered by the Wraith, if not on their world then when they go out for test subjects, and they decide that military technology would be a bad area to research? That doesn't make sense to me.

They would have kept advancing, but since this is just a small faction of the Asgard, their resources would be limited, and their focus would be on survival, but they still would have advanced, and with such a leg up on the Travelers, it's just inconceivable to me that the Travelers could ever catch up to them, unless the Asgard faction is incredibly small.

[stargater1990]

I don't think you understand just how fast you are going and how small a window a couple of miles of atmosphere is. You are talking about not only amazing navigation precision, but incredible mechanical wizardry to design a device that disengages EXACTLY when it should. It's not about power in this case, but control. I would not be surprised if our Asgard did have this ability, but I'm not just going to assume they do.



Second line of my post, "These Asgard are obviously not as advanced as ours."

Second point, no need to be quick. We're talking about village people here. Who cares how long you take when you have big honkin' armor suits, energy weapons, and energy shields that take a minute of sustained machine gun fire to bring down. I'm thinking swords and bows will be considerably less effective. Necessity is the mother of invention, and there was no need for them to develop a transporter. They weren't going anywhere, and they already have an effective means of securing test subjects.



One word: altitude. At high altitudes, air density is very thin. X302 would take 30 minutes to fall back to earth. That's very high. Deadalus and traveler ship were both still very high when they opened their window. It would be no different than opening a window in a nebula where gas concentration is very low.

That Asgard ship was just a few hundred meters above sea level. Air density would be almost at its highest. That impressed me. Considering that you're traveling tens of thousands of times faster than light (c = 186,282 miles per second) and you drop out within an atmosphere only 4 or five miles high??? That's impressive.



I guess I just don't understand why you assume they wouldn't advance. They'd been going along advancing for thousands of years to the point where 4 Great races form this inspiring alliance. Then, this faction goes to Pegasus and decides, "Well, technology is bad. Let's just stay away from that"??? They're under constant threat of being discovered by the Wraith, if not on their world then when they go out for test subjects, and they decide that military technology would be a bad area to research? That doesn't make sense to me.

They would have kept advancing, but since this is just a small faction of the Asgard, their resources would be limited, and their focus would be on survival, but they still would have advanced, and with such a leg up on the Travelers, it's just inconceivable to me that the Travelers could ever catch up to them, unless the Asgard faction is incredibly small.

okay, so your saying that the smartest race ever to inhabit the stars would be unable to to make the technology to exit hyperspace in the atmosphere? i think thats just BS to me. all it requires is precision piloting and strong engines but no way can can our asgards, whove got the most powerfull engines we know of, can do that.


and yes they could just put troops on the ground but my question is, if they were as advanced as the other asgards would it or would it not be easier to just press a few buttons and have what you need or to put troops on the ground? obviously its easier to use the beaming technology but the point im trying to make is that beaming technology is very basic stuff and if they couldnt even make it then how could they make some of the other technologies that our asgards have. i mean, yes putting troops on the ground works just fine, but if these asgards are as smart as ours, making beaming technology should have just been a natural thing made due to advancement, yet they havent.


okay, heres another example, the orion. it went from below 30 feet of magma on the surface to orbit. now if the orions hyperdrive, which as we all know is way slower than the average ida asgard hyperdrive, could do it then it would be stupid for them not to be able to do it.


okay, well if you had a medical problem that if it wasnt corrected, will kill you, would you spend your time designing military technology, or working on fixing your problem? obviously you would fix your problem. i mean they were given a fool proff way to hide and they saw no point of wasting time developing better technology when they could be using that time working on fixing their problem. i mean their technology for survival was good eneough to get by on and obviously they would have far better medical technology as the ida asgards, but it makes sense that since these asgards fought no wars and just focused on fixing their problem that they wouldnt have worried themselves with advancement in certin areas, such as military tech.

[Ncc-72452]

okay, so your saying that the smartest race ever to inhabit the stars would be unable to to make the technology to exit hyperspace in the atmosphere? i think thats just BS to me. all it requires is precision piloting and strong engines but no way can can our asgards, whove got the most powerfull engines we know of, can do that.

Okay, at the risk of repeating myself, "I would not be surprised if our Asgard did have this ability, but I'm not just going to assume they do."

And again, powerful engines have nothing to do with it. Powerful breaks maybe... We're talking about an incredible amount of precession, and yes, if anyone can do it, obviously it's the Asgard... Because the Asgard did do it. So, obviously the Asgard CAN do it. I'm just not going to assume that ours could because I just don't assume. I don't assume that Wraith hives could travel through time, or jump to different dimensions, or are capable of infinite velocity. It just seems logical to not assume abilities that have not yet been demonstrated.

and yes they could just put troops on the ground but my question is, if they were as advanced as the other asgards would it or would it not be easier to just press a few buttons and have what you need or to put troops on the ground? obviously its easier to use the beaming technology but the point im trying to make is that beaming technology is very basic stuff and if they couldnt even make it then how could they make some of the other technologies that our asgards have. i mean, yes putting troops on the ground works just fine, but if these asgards are as smart as ours, making beaming technology should have just been a natural thing made due to advancement, yet they havent.

Developing a device capable of transmuting every cell in your body to energy and reconverting it without a single error in the placement of trillions of cells is not exactly what I would call "basic stuff."

And again, at the risk of repeating myself (3 times), "These Asgard are obviously not as advanced as ours."

To answer your question, very easily. A subterranean culture would not focus on developing windmills or solar panels. These Asgard have no need for instantaneous transport. They're not going anywhere, and they have an effective means of securing test subjects. However, the need to sneak about is of paramount importance to them, thus their ability to drop out of hyperspace inside an atmosphere.

Our Asgard, on the other hand, were the dominant power of their era, and thus had no need to sneak about, thus no need to develop precision hyperdrives. Presto, how PG Asgard can be more advanced in some areas and less advanced in others. Necessity truly is the mother of invention.

okay, heres another example, the orion. it went from below 30 feet of magma on the surface to orbit. now if the orions hyperdrive, which as we all know is way slower than the average ida asgard hyperdrive, could do it then it would be stupid for them not to be able to do it.

True, but the Orion was ejected high into the air by the erupting volcano. It's shields sustained them until they were clear, and then they jumped into hyperspace.

A better example is the Replicator ship at the end of SG-1's "New Order Part II." (I thought about that shortly after I posted ). Still, this kinda proves my point. The Ancients and the Replicators, arguably the two races more advanced than our Asgard, are the only two races that have demonstrated this capability, and neither one of these was incoming, but rather outgoing!

okay, well if you had a medical problem that if it wasnt corrected, will kill you, would you spend your time designing military technology, or working on fixing your problem? obviously you would fix your problem. i mean they were given a fool proff way to hide and they saw no point of wasting time developing better technology when they could be using that time working on fixing their problem. i mean their technology for survival was good eneough to get by on and obviously they would have far better medical technology as the ida asgards, but it makes sense that since these asgards fought no wars and just focused on fixing their problem that they wouldnt have worried themselves with advancement in certin areas, such as military tech.

Actually, our Asgard had the same medical condition, and they did focus on developing military technology. And no, their survival tech was not good enough according to LAD (Lead Asgard Dude) because that tech was failing and forcing them back into the galaxy dominated by the Wraith, which was why they were activating the Atero Device. And these are Asgard we're talking about, the basis of the Norse culture that emphasized death in battle and berzerker mentality. I have a VERY difficult time believing that they went Hippie and forsook their weapons research, especially given the heartless mentality of LAD.

[stargater1990]

Okay, at the risk of repeating myself, "I would not be surprised if our Asgard did have this ability, but I'm not just going to assume they do."

And again, powerful engines have nothing to do with it. Powerful breaks maybe... We're talking about an incredible amount of precession, and yes, if anyone can do it, obviously it's the Asgard... Because the Asgard did do it. So, obviously the Asgard CAN do it. I'm just not going to assume that ours could because I just don't assume. I don't assume that Wraith hives could travel through time, or jump to different dimensions, or are capable of infinite velocity. It just seems logical to not assume abilities that have not yet been demonstrated.



Developing a device capable of transmuting every cell in your body to energy and reconverting it without a single error in the placement of trillions of cells is not exactly what I would call "basic stuff."

And again, at the risk of repeating myself (3 times), "These Asgard are obviously not as advanced as ours."

To answer your question, very easily. A subterranean culture would not focus on developing windmills or solar panels. These Asgard have no need for instantaneous transport. They're not going anywhere, and they have an effective means of securing test subjects. However, the need to sneak about is of paramount importance to them, thus their ability to drop out of hyperspace inside an atmosphere.

Our Asgard, on the other hand, were the dominant power of their era, and thus had no need to sneak about, thus no need to develop precision hyperdrives. Presto, how PG Asgard can be more advanced in some areas and less advanced in others. Necessity truly is the mother of invention.



True, but the Orion was ejected high into the air by the erupting volcano. It's shields sustained them until they were clear, and then they jumped into hyperspace.

A better example is the Replicator ship at the end of SG-1's "New Order Part II." (I thought about that shortly after I posted ). Still, this kinda proves my point. The Ancients and the Replicators, arguably the two races more advanced than our Asgard, are the only two races that have demonstrated this capability, and neither one of these was incoming, but rather outgoing!



Actually, our Asgard had the same medical condition, and they did focus on developing military technology. And no, their survival tech was not good enough according to LAD (Lead Asgard Dude) because that tech was failing and forcing them back into the galaxy dominated by the Wraith, which was why they were activating the Atero Device. And these are Asgard we're talking about, the basis of the Norse culture that emphasized death in battle and berzerker mentality. I have a VERY difficult time believing that they went Hippie and forsook their weapons research, especially given the heartless mentality of LAD.

brakes to a space ship are essientally engines switched into reverse, and since our asgards engines are as good as theirs, i think its only a logical conclusion that they should be able to do this, but hey thats just my opinion and i'll believe what i want to believe and you can believe what you want to believe.


and when i said it was basic stuff, i meant for our asgards, bascially the point i was trying to get at was that were these asgards as advanced as ours, then they should have all of these cool technologies but they dont which is why i came to the conclusion that they were less advanced, like at about the travelers level of technology which really isint all that bad.



they were only ejected like a couple thousand feet. and really, atmosphere is atmosphere. i mean opening a hyperspace window in a planets atmosphere cant be all that dificult if an auroras hyperdrive can do it, whcih is wayy slower that our asgard hyperdrives. again believe what you want to believe but i think ill stick to the evidence, which show, the x302, the travelers ship and the orion and the replicators ship all opening hyperspace windows in the atmoshpere.


but the pg asgards found a way to hid from the wraith and didint have a need for advancement in military technology. whereas the ida asgards had the replicator problem which forced them to develop newer and better military technology. and the thing with their survival gear was that over the milenia the conditions became worse to where their survival gear was unable to protect them. but for 10000 years it worked just fine with proboly some minor adjustments here and there.

[Ncc-72452]

brakes to a space ship are essientally engines switched into reverse, and since our asgards engines are as good as theirs, i think its only a logical conclusion that they should be able to do this, but hey thats just my opinion and i'll believe what i want to believe and you can believe what you want to believe.

Breaks to space ships are reversed engines, until you enter the realm of FTL travel. Since you have to create a pocket of warped space time around your craft to avoid the obvious relativistic effects, to stop, you simply disengage the pocket, and physics takes over. No object in normal space is capable of traveling faster than light, so you stop. I agree that if it were simply a matter of engine power, our Asgard would trump these new guys hands down, but it's not a matter of power. It's navigational precession, which includes the ability to predict planetary, solar, and galactic rotation, the position, speed, gravitational effects on your ship, and uncanny accuracy in your calculations. Just going from the earth to the moon, some of the brightest minds on the planet, using computers, calculated the trajectories and speeds necessary for lunar orbit. On Apollo 8, they were amazed that they were within a mile of where they calculated.

A mile. From the earth to the moon. We're talking about galactic distances and FTL velocities within a range of meters, not miles. I don't know how else I can put it, but it's not about powerful engines. That's got little to do with it. Obviously these guys don't have intergalactic hyperdrives anymore, and our Asgard could blink their way across galaxies. It's about precession navigation, piloting, and machinery.

and when i said it was basic stuff, i meant for our asgards, bascially the point i was trying to get at was that were these asgards as advanced as ours, then they should have all of these cool technologies but they dont which is why i came to the conclusion that they were less advanced, like at about the travelers level of technology which really isint all that bad.

I understand what you meant. We all get caught up in the Sci-Fi element that when we see a race without transporters we're like, "how primitive." I was just trying to point out just how advanced a transporter is. To defend these new Asgard, they had plenty of technology that I thought was cool. Maybe you weren't as impressed. I liked the disk thing that let them cut through the floors. I thought their armor suits were kinda cool, and their pistols were cooler than those Ancient ones. I also, obviously, was impressed by their dropping out of hyperspace above the water.

And sorry, I'm not a big fan of the Travelers. I think they're kinda backwards scavenger, garbage scowl people, but that's just my opinion. So, I was kinda ticked when 1 of their ships cleanly took on 3 Asgard ships and destroyed 2 of them. That's not on par with the Travelers. That's below them. I also didn't like it in BAMSR when they took on Ancient ships of the line and lost 1 ship. Wow. How terrible.

they were only ejected like a couple thousand feet. and really, atmosphere is atmosphere. i mean opening a hyperspace window in a planets atmosphere cant be all that dificult if an auroras hyperdrive can do it, whcih is wayy slower that our asgard hyperdrives. again believe what you want to believe but i think ill stick to the evidence, which show, the x302, the travelers ship and the orion and the replicators ship all opening hyperspace windows in the atmoshpere.

I agree that they weren't ejected that high, but atmosphere is not atmosphere. If you don't believe me, try breathing at 50,000 feet. Different altitudes means different density because of differing gravity. This means there are fewer atmospheric molecules for a hyperdrive to overcome. At sea level, atmosphere is at it's most dense, so there is far more potential for interaction between the atmosphere and a highly charged interdimensional hyperspace window. Also, the atmosphere on moons like Io, Titan, and Callisto is FAR different from the atmosphere on Earth. For one thing, we don't have rivers of liquid methane.

And I think you should re-examine your evidence. You're confusing the Aurora and the Orion. While the same class of ship, they obviously had very different engines. You are correct that the Aurora was slow and "not built for speed," but the Orion was able to follow two Wraith hives far into the void between galaxies to assist the Daedalus in destroying two hives. She obviously had more powerful engines. As for the Travelers, X302, replicator ship, and Orion, they were all outgoing hyperspace windows, not incoming, meaning there was no precision involved. Just open and fly into the void. And the X302 and Traveler ship were practically suborbital. So, I'll just stick with the evidence.

but the pg asgards found a way to hid from the wraith and didint have a need for advancement in military technology. whereas the ida asgards had the replicator problem which forced them to develop newer and better military technology. and the thing with their survival gear was that over the milenia the conditions became worse to where their survival gear was unable to protect them. but for 10000 years it worked just fine with proboly some minor adjustments here and there.

Everyone has a need for advancing military technology. Especially a militaristic, confrontational, ethics-ignoring, super-smart race. I agree that the Ida Asgard had a greater need and that their weapons tech would be far superior, but I refuse to believe that this Lost Tribe would completely forsake all other technologies, especially weapons. As far as I can remember, that was not established. I don't remember it being established that their entire culture was dedicated to their illness. The reason that they're still alive and the Ida Asgard are not is because they forsook their ethics and experimented on humans. That's what I remember being established. Perhaps you can steer me straight if I missed something. And if they were still researching new weapons, there's no way a human space-nomad race could catch them. Everyone is talking about these Asgard having limited resources. Try being nomadic and seeing how much access to resources you have. Resources that were here today are gone tomorrow, and as I recall, the Travelers are having their own problems, (things breaking down, surprise, surprise considering they don't have resources to fix them with).

And no technology works fine for 10,000 years with just minor adjustments. There would have had to have been serious developmental changes in response to changing environmental conditions. If they were only minor changes, then there's no way they would have been blindsided and forced back into the stars.

[stargater1990]

Breaks to space ships are reversed engines, until you enter the realm of FTL travel. Since you have to create a pocket of warped space time around your craft to avoid the obvious relativistic effects, to stop, you simply disengage the pocket, and physics takes over. No object in normal space is capable of traveling faster than light, so you stop. I agree that if it were simply a matter of engine power, our Asgard would trump these new guys hands down, but it's not a matter of power. It's navigational precession, which includes the ability to predict planetary, solar, and galactic rotation, the position, speed, gravitational effects on your ship, and uncanny accuracy in your calculations. Just going from the earth to the moon, some of the brightest minds on the planet, using computers, calculated the trajectories and speeds necessary for lunar orbit. On Apollo 8, they were amazed that they were within a mile of where they calculated.

A mile. From the earth to the moon. We're talking about galactic distances and FTL velocities within a range of meters, not miles. I don't know how else I can put it, but it's not about powerful engines. That's got little to do with it. Obviously these guys don't have intergalactic hyperdrives anymore, and our Asgard could blink their way across galaxies. It's about precession navigation, piloting, and machinery.



I understand what you meant. We all get caught up in the Sci-Fi element that when we see a race without transporters we're like, "how primitive." I was just trying to point out just how advanced a transporter is. To defend these new Asgard, they had plenty of technology that I thought was cool. Maybe you weren't as impressed. I liked the disk thing that let them cut through the floors. I thought their armor suits were kinda cool, and their pistols were cooler than those Ancient ones. I also, obviously, was impressed by their dropping out of hyperspace above the water.

And sorry, I'm not a big fan of the Travelers. I think they're kinda backwards scavenger, garbage scowl people, but that's just my opinion. So, I was kinda ticked when 1 of their ships cleanly took on 3 Asgard ships and destroyed 2 of them. That's not on par with the Travelers. That's below them. I also didn't like it in BAMSR when they took on Ancient ships of the line and lost 1 ship. Wow. How terrible.



I agree that they weren't ejected that high, but atmosphere is not atmosphere. If you don't believe me, try breathing at 50,000 feet. Different altitudes means different density because of differing gravity. This means there are fewer atmospheric molecules for a hyperdrive to overcome. At sea level, atmosphere is at it's most dense, so there is far more potential for interaction between the atmosphere and a highly charged interdimensional hyperspace window. Also, the atmosphere on moons like Io, Titan, and Callisto is FAR different from the atmosphere on Earth. For one thing, we don't have rivers of liquid methane.

And I think you should re-examine your evidence. You're confusing the Aurora and the Orion. While the same class of ship, they obviously had very different engines. You are correct that the Aurora was slow and "not built for speed," but the Orion was able to follow two Wraith hives far into the void between galaxies to assist the Daedalus in destroying two hives. She obviously had more powerful engines. As for the Travelers, X302, replicator ship, and Orion, they were all outgoing hyperspace windows, not incoming, meaning there was no precision involved. Just open and fly into the void. And the X302 and Traveler ship were practically suborbital. So, I'll just stick with the evidence.



Everyone has a need for advancing military technology. Especially a militaristic, confrontational, ethics-ignoring, super-smart race. I agree that the Ida Asgard had a greater need and that their weapons tech would be far superior, but I refuse to believe that this Lost Tribe would completely forsake all other technologies, especially weapons. As far as I can remember, that was not established. I don't remember it being established that their entire culture was dedicated to their illness. The reason that they're still alive and the Ida Asgard are not is because they forsook their ethics and experimented on humans. That's what I remember being established. Perhaps you can steer me straight if I missed something. And if they were still researching new weapons, there's no way a human space-nomad race could catch them. Everyone is talking about these Asgard having limited resources. Try being nomadic and seeing how much access to resources you have. Resources that were here today are gone tomorrow, and as I recall, the Travelers are having their own problems, (things breaking down, surprise, surprise considering they don't have resources to fix them with).

And no technology works fine for 10,000 years with just minor adjustments. There would have had to have been serious developmental changes in response to changing environmental conditions. If they were only minor changes, then there's no way they would have been blindsided and forced back into the stars.

are you serious? now your just being insulting. you just described our asgards. there always throwing it in our faces, although usually in a polite manner, how good they are with presision calcuations. and if according to you thats all it comes down to, then our asgards could definitely do it. and our asgards have the best sensors and would be more than capable of detecting all of the stuff you mentioned.


and as for the transporter, your not understanding what it is im trying to explain so im just gonna stop wasting my time trying to.


ok, so now your saying that you need a strong hyperdrive to generate a stable hyperspace field to therefore enter hyperspace inside an atmosphere. and so if thats the case, there is an absolutely 100% chance that every race that has intergalactic hyperdrives can do this. i mean since the asgards already said that they lost their intergalactic hyperdrives after they came here, which is why they have to stay, means their using a regular intragalactic hyperdrive, which by deffinition is less powerful than a intergalactic one. and since our asgards and earth both had/have intergalactic hyperdrives it would be easy for us to do it. i mean they should be powerfull eneough to overcome the "denser atmospheric molecules" at low altitude. i mean if these asgards can do it with their less powerful hyperdrives we and our asgards should be able to do it.



i was merely saying that since these asgards do not have military technology that rivals ours, then they must not have been focusing all of their efforts to creating military tech. i mean no they wouldnt have just forgotten about it but they wouldnt have made it their main focus. i mean if they got some idea about a new weapon design then yeah, they would take some time to develope it but other than that, they would have had no need to make a new waepon design every year, which is pretty much what our asgards had to do. i mean they were forced to continually make bigger and better weapons but these asgards had a nice hiding spot and took their time with the development of military tech which could explain why it is not as advanced as ours.

[Giantevilhead]

I wouldn't underestimate the Travelers. Their entire society is focused on their ships. They probably neglected entertainment, philosophy, music, art, agriculture, politics, etc. for many generations so they can work on improving and repairing their ships. Just because Traveler tech doesn't look advanced doesn't mean they aren't advanced. Goa'uld tech looks like ancient Egyptian artifacts but they are very advanced.

[Ncc-72452]

are you serious?

Quite.

now your just being insulting.

Not meaning to be...

you just described our asgards. there always throwing it in our faces, although usually in a polite manner, how good they are with presision calcuations. and if according to you thats all it comes down to, then our asgards could definitely do it.

Actually, Ida and Pegasus Asgard are the same race. Therefore, both have the same "smartness" potential. Again, it all comes down to necessity. Ida Asgard had no need to ever plot such a hyperjump. Just like I'm sure that humans can land on Mars, but we haven't done it yet. Currently, we don't have the ability because there isn't the necessity. So, an outsider would be wise to assume, for the moment, that we do not have that capability.

And McKay has bested an Asgard in calculations at least once. And such a plot is WELL beyond our capabilities.

and our asgards have the best sensors and would be more than capable of detecting all of the stuff you mentioned.

*hangs and slowly shakes head*

Yes, let's just press the little buttons, and the magic computer will tell us everything we ever wanted to know. It's not a sensor issue. Sensors will tell you exactly where everything is NOW. You have to predict where it's going to be. After roughly 500 years of astronomy, we still cannot predict with 100% reliability the rotation of the planets IN OUR OWN SYSTEM, even though we can see exactly where they are.

There are just so many subtitles on such a small scale that you would have to take into account. If you were just going to the moon, you could ignore them, but you're hopping across the galaxy, and the TINIEST force can throw you a thousandth of a degree off course, and across 100,000 lightyears distance, you're talking a serious detour.

I appreciate your unwavering faith in our Asgard, and I share your respect and admiration of them, but I'm just saying that they never had a reason for doing such a jump, so why bother going through the difficulty? These Asgard had a reason. The ability to jump in atmo under the nose of the Wraith, secure a test subject, and jump out would be of immense value to these Asgard.

To clarify one last time, I'm not saying Ida Asgard could never have had this ability. They never had the need, so they probably never developed the ability, and since they're dead, they never will. Is it in the realm of possibility that they did? Heck yeah. But it wasn't shown, so I won't assume. If you want to, go ahead, but don't expect everyone else to. I don't assume the Chinese have FTL travel or that the British have fusion cores either.

and as for the transporter, your not understanding what it is im trying to explain so im just gonna stop wasting my time trying to.

*drool* How kind of you...

ok, so now your saying that you need a strong hyperdrive to generate a stable hyperspace field to therefore enter hyperspace inside an atmosphere. and so if thats the case, there is an absolutely 100% chance that every race that has intergalactic hyperdrives can do this. i mean since the asgards already said that they lost their intergalactic hyperdrives after they came here, which is why they have to stay, means their using a regular intragalactic hyperdrive, which by deffinition is less powerful than a intergalactic one. and since our asgards and earth both had/have intergalactic hyperdrives it would be easy for us to do it. i mean they should be powerfull eneough to overcome the "denser atmospheric molecules" at low altitude. i mean if these asgards can do it with their less powerful hyperdrives we and our asgards should be able to do it.

Typical. It's not working so what do we do? More power, because that will solve everything.

I said that increased atmospheric pressure could impact the formation of a hyperspace window because of its interaction with the atmospheric particles (i.e. nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide, argon). Dialing up the power would only increase these reactions. That's like turning up the power when you're electrocuting a man and expecting that to solve the problem.

Obviously a solution to the problem exists because the Replicators did it, at roughly sea level. But dumping more power on it won't solve it. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

i was merely saying that since these asgards do not have military technology that rivals ours, then they must not have been focusing all of their efforts to creating military tech. i mean no they wouldnt have just forgotten about it but they wouldnt have made it their main focus. i mean if they got some idea about a new weapon design then yeah, they would take some time to develope it but other than that, they would have had no need to make a new waepon design every year, which is pretty much what our asgards had to do. i mean they were forced to continually make bigger and better weapons but these asgards had a nice hiding spot and took their time with the development of military tech which could explain why it is not as advanced as ours.

Wait, the military technology that the Ida Asgard gave us, or the Traveler military technology that we used to fight three of their ships. Perhaps you refer to the force field? Last time I checked, the most powerful defensive system we had was an overlapping series of ceramic disks called "Dragon's Skin." Capable of absorbing a grenade explosion directly, it is nonetheless not an energy field, and way less tech than these Asgard's tech.

I appreciate your effort to offer an explanation for why these new Asgard had less advanced weapons technology, and ITA that the Ida Asgard should have had and did have more advanced weapons tech, but I just cannot accept that a Traveler ship would be superior to them. Not in the slightest (I have already explained why). I mean, obviously they were, in the episode, but I thought that this was poorly done in an otherwise good episode.

[Ncc-72452]

I wouldn't underestimate the Travelers. Their entire society is focused on their ships. They probably neglected entertainment, philosophy, music, art, agriculture, politics, etc. for many generations so they can work on improving and repairing their ships. Just because Traveler tech doesn't look advanced doesn't mean they aren't advanced. Goa'uld tech looks like ancient Egyptian artifacts but they are very advanced.

Please don't be insulted if you like the Travelers just because I don't like them. If you like them, please go right on liking them.

I just feel that once they became nomadic, their tech level would stagnate. Throughout our history, I cannot recall a single nomadic culture contributing a significant technological achievement. Many of them had rich cultures and other attributes to offer, but it is very difficult to improve your tech without labs, resources, facilities, and (in this case) shipyards. There's only so much you can do on the run when survival is more important. And jury-rigging only lasts for so long, and is usually not an effective long-term fix or advancement.

[Finger13]

A TRAVELER ship destroyed an ASGARD ship? That is so unbelievably stupid that I can't even express it properly.

Did you even bother paying attention to the bits where the Asgard reveal their past?

They lost their technologically advanced ships 10,000 years ago. They didn't have the resources to build more, AND the Wraith were hunting them down. Thus, they abandoned their settlements and left for a toxic world which, presumably, had dick all for resources.

Add to this the fact that they had no reason to venture out into the galaxy and provoke battles where powerful shields and weapons would be necessary, and we arrive at The Lost Tribe. Relatively small and weak ships that reflect their creator's mindset. The Pegasus Asgard are researching humans to perfect their cloning technology, not to deal out hot dickings to the Wraith. So they don't need an all powerful ship for the few occasions where they actually go out and abduct humans and carry out experiments.

The MW Asgard had their huge and powerful ships because not only were they not wiped out and isolated from their homeworld and thus vast resources and manpower, but they had the war with the Replicators. Carter says it perfectly, the reason that the MW Asgard kept coming out with new ships was because they had to keep outsmarting the Replicators.

Pegasus Asgard = Scientific research, minimal military requirements, and wanting to keep a low profile on a planet that probably had little to offer to begin with.

Milky Way Asgard = Vast resources, war with Replicators prompting heavy research into weapons and ships, no concern about staying hidden, wasn't at that much of a disadvantage against the Replicators.

[SoulReaver]

Three things no one has taken into consideration:

1-Who says they are as advanced as our Asgard who spent some significant portion of the last 10,000 years fighting the replicators in an Arms race where their weapon and shield technology leaped drastically?

2-Who says that the Travelers are not advanced? We have no idea how advanced they were before the Wraith forced them into space. They seem to have been exceedingly advanced... and they were able to build ships that have stood up to thousands of years of constant use.

3-Who says those ships were not lightly armed transports?!


The shield apparently let them through. Likely because they were once allies of the Ancients. McKay altered the shield to prevent that from occurring in the future.


Tough suits. They also did not have transporters or even rings.
That is a serious lack of technology compared to what our Asgard have/had.


True. But that simply exemplified their lack of transporters.
Also that seemed to be more of an energy drill. Not really that impressive when Atlantis appears to be made of glorified concrete.


That shield failed after a barrage of bullets. Goa'uld personal shields are superior to that.


Um... compared to who?
Maybe the Wraith.
Maybe the Goa'uld outside of personal shield tech.
No one else.

Individual technologies may be superior without the net technology of being more advanced.


Your statement, analogy, and thought process would be based on all three assumptions I listed above.

that's a power issue, not a shield issue. could be that the batteries were almost depleted (at least I hope that's the explanation, as it's the only one that doesn't strain credibility too much)


+1 with the rest though

those asgard ships looked like giant PJs. not warships

[Giantevilhead]

Please don't be insulted if you like the Travelers just because I don't like them. If you like them, please go right on liking them.

I just feel that once they became nomadic, their tech level would stagnate. Throughout our history, I cannot recall a single nomadic culture contributing a significant technological achievement. Many of them had rich cultures and other attributes to offer, but it is very difficult to improve your tech without labs, resources, facilities, and (in this case) shipyards. There's only so much you can do on the run when survival is more important. And jury-rigging only lasts for so long, and is usually not an effective long-term fix or advancement.

Nomadic societies on earth never had the Traveler's level of technology in the first place and more importantly, they didn't have to deal with life force stealing aliens.

Travelers were technologically advanced when they became nomadic. Their survival depends on maintaining and improving their tech. Also, we don't know if they have labs or how they acquire resources. Maybe they have shp based labs, as well as mining and refining capabilities. So far we've only seen Traveler battle ships. They may have generational ships with the capabilities to maintain their civilization for centuries.

[Avalonis]

A TRAVELER ship destroyed an ASGARD ship? That is so unbelievably stupid that I can't even express it properly.

Did you have a problem with 7 traveller ships taking out a fleet of Auroras in BAMSR? Because they did ok there, and I am certain that Ancient warships are greater than a couple little Asgard ships.

[Arturis]

Did you have a problem with 7 traveller ships taking out a fleet of Auroras in BAMSR? Because they did ok there, and I am certain that Ancient warships are greater than a couple little Asgard ships.

I did actually. The Travelers are still the WORST. RACE. EVER. Sure, they could take a couple of REPLICATOR (I simply refuse to EVER use the word Asuran when the characters on the show only ever used it twice) Auroras which we on this board have agreed are vastly inferior to Ancient Auroras, but even that's explainable due to the fact of the Wraith Hives and our Asgard beams softening up the Replicators before the Travelers could do anything.

Hopefully, the Wraith will find the Travelers and react to finding them the way a fat guy would to finding a hidden bag of cookies: DEVOUR THEM ALL AT ONCE.

[Avalonis]

Well deal, its set it stone, already happened, its on paper, theres nothing you can do to undo it, etc.