Carson: From healer, to bringer of death

[Nitegate]

i didn't read any of the posts, just putting what i think.

this carson is not the same carson, if you noticed in the kindred part 2, he shot those 2 men in the back with no hesitation, he is the complete opposite.

i like it, cause it shows how carson goes to the darkside a bit, like not caring as much as he did cause of all the crap he's been through with michael.

i also see the wraith kinda scared of the atlantis expedition, just like how the goa'uld became scared of earth and refused to attack after anubis's ship got blown out of the sky. why i say the wraith is scared of them is they defeated the replicators which they couldn't and they've had several attacks on atlantis and they've failed.

[Ouroboros]

Carson "genocidal bioweapons" Beckett quoting "do no harm" made my friggin' sides split.

[Heaven]

I think the do no harm is intended for your patients not people who are trying to kill you

[MCH]

I think the do no harm is intended for your patients not people who are trying to kill you

I agree with you Carson was under threat, and although this is Carson with all Carson original memories, this clonewent through what Michael did to him. Wonder if the real Carson would have done what he did on the ship.
As for to the do no harm oath not everybody else will agree with Carson actions as doctors generally are seen as being there to help and heal.

MCH

[AlphaWox]

Carson did lead the commander to feed, but in the end, wasn't it the commander's choice to put his hand on Carson's chest? I'll agree that Carson manipulated the situation to present the option. The commander was the one who chose to take the option. He could very easily have ordered Carson sent to a holding cell and kept him separated from Rodney (I've never understood that about the Wraith, they obviously have multiple holding cells on hive ships, yet they herd the whole team and whoever's with them into one single room -- yeah, easier to guard, but easier for the team to come up with an escape plan).

[aretood2]

all those wraith human comparisons are stupid
there is no such thing as universal morals or ethics
murdering your own kind is only immoral by human standards.
you can't make that judgment for other races. there are many species who kill their own kind merely in competition for anything from food to mates.

like people?
Saying that someone else's opinion is stupid is not the best way to express your views, unless its completely out of reason. And this may not be that case.

to humans the wraith are an enemy, and humans are their prey, if you don't kill them they'll kill you. it's us or them, nothing wrong with killing every last wraith in the galaxy.

that may be true if there is no third option. Carson is free of guilt imo, just wanted to make that clear. But if there was another option and Carson ignored it, then he would be the monster that the OP claims he is. In "our" case, there is a third option. The third option is Keller's miracle pill that allows the wraith to process food.

and Carson using his medical knowledge to kill the wraith - why not?

once again to make my self clear, I agree due to the situation. Had there been a third way out then this would be wrong from my POV.

medical knowledge is just knowledge there is nothing holy about it.

This is where I disagree. To me Medical knowledge is a divine gift, if you will.
Running around and hiding a cure for a dieing people is wrong. Running around with said plague and making sure everyone in that group gets it is also wrong. The Lanteans have a third option for the Wraith on the table. It is not Humanity's fault that the Wraith choose to ignore it.

That said I agree with pretty much everything that Pandora's Box said. Carson had no other choice. Many Doctors have to either save one life while killing another on a daily basis, think birth complications. What Carson did was not that much different in this one specific isolated situation.

[Reiko]

I'm inclined to agree with Pandora, and it's not just because I'm one of Carson's biggest fans. However, I do see where the opposing arguement is coming from and it's certainly justifyable. But we are talking in terms of human lives here, and, naturally, they will always come out on top of the Wraith for many reasons -- because our protagonists are human and the Wraith have had options to look for other food sources for years.

I'm quite happy with the ethical arguement this episode has produced -- it shows we still have complex characters. (Erm, potentially complex characters.) I have not seen this episode yet, but from what I hear there should have been scenes surrounding the characters' actions, no?

[Heaven]

that may be true if there is no third option. Carson is free of guilt imo, just wanted to make that clear. But if there was another option and Carson ignored it, then he would be the monster that the OP claims he is. In "our" case, there is a third option. The third option is Keller's miracle pill that allows the wraith to process food.

I disagree, I think it's entirely within the rights of every human to kill a wraith
whether there is a third option or not.
it's the natural order of things, and any other solution is an artificial one.
mercy is a luxury not a right.

[aretood2]

I disagree, I think it's entirely within the rights of every human to kill a wraith
whether there is a third option or not.
it's the natural order of things, and any other solution is an artificial one.
mercy is a luxury not a right.

But mercy is a virtue.

It is also the Natural order of things to let the weak to die, yet we have hospitals and programs to help the weak...

Just cause something is natural, it doesn't always mean that it is good.

[Heaven]

But mercy is a virtue.

It is also the Natural order of things to let the weak to die, yet we have hospitals and programs to help the weak...

Just cause something is natural, it doesn't always mean that it is good.

yes provided they can pay for treatment or make a contribution to society.

good is subjective.
by helping those people you may save lives - a "good" thing, but you also fail to eliminate the weak genes that caused the weakness in the first place and ultimately continue this cycle of pain and misery - bad.
virtually all "good" things are tied with "bad" consequences in some form.

doing the most "good" won't always lead to the best outcome. you have to aim for balance. this is what nature is all about.

[Earthgate Ricky]

Your just grabbing at straws now.

Carson did what was best. He killed wraith (since when has this become a morally bad thing to do???) and saved a large group of people, around 700.

Peachy!
But Carson concerned about his health and DNA/clone cells as he check up if his cells were not degenerated as Wraith got killed by feeding on toxin. I think that he is fine.

Look, Rodney did killed more wraiths than Carson. We know that the clone Carson don't attend medical college as original Carson did, but the clone got DNA, memories, expressions, etc..from original Carson. Carson told lot of stories about Rodney in funny ways as Rodney felt that Carson is Carson, not original or clone as Rodney never give a damn.

If I am one of SA crew, I would invisit Carson for dinner.

[Nemises]

what would you have him do ? hand over the solution to the wraith so they can continue there feeding without fear of getting killed themselves.

quite a strategy you've got there to save lives.

[Arica15]

Maybe what this goes to show is that it's not a case of the 'right' and 'wrong' answer, maybe it's just the less bad.

[Ripple in Space]

It's kind of funny you brought this up in this episode discussion because Carson actually talked about reconciling the best way to act to save the most lives...

A for effort, but you don't have a leg to stand on because he outright said that he took the course of action that he believed would save the most lives.

[Orion Antreas]

I have to disagree. A rather interesting debate I must add. Carson once again was willing to sacrifice himself to save others in this episode. He was not going to help with the research so he took a chance in hoping he could escape with Mckay and save the rest of the people on the planet and in the galaxy. Rodney basically hit the nail on the head when he says to Carson "You cannot solve all the problems of the Pegasus Galaxy in one day".

It's a very moral issue, and gotta say this is the kind of episode that make the show have so many levels and gives the characters a more 3D feel to them.

I agree 100%. You summed up exactly what I felt.