'Outsiders' (512) General Discussion

[Commander Zelix]

For me this was an average episode. It started out unoriginal and predictable, but got a bit better toward the end. Though a lot of things seems to be too convenient. (Carson/McKay beaming down at the last minute, the wraith commander talking alone with Carson and feeding on him, Carson having the plague, the wraith following the ambush, Carson becoming a great shooter, easy escape, etc). I like the Carson/McKay interactions. It was an interesting follow up to the plague episode. As others pointed out, Sheppard killing those humans villagers was uncalled for. Those people were not villains, or criminals, but just people trying to protect their people from a real threat, like Sheppard trying to protect those plague people. There's no way, those human villagers were worse that Sheppard in this episode. I predicted the ambush, but I thought they would be a wraith shoot out, not a bomb to kill everybody. It was unoriginal but it still was better than a lot of what else is on tv.

[Briangate78]

I'm still not getting how this episode was predictable? How is it predictable with Sheppard blowing up some villagers with the Wraith. How about how Carson and Mckay suddenly appeared when Sheppard thought Teyla was going to be beamed up by the Dart. I did not see that one coming. I swear we got some Psychics here. Can we go to Atlantic City or Vegas and start placing some bets? I'll split with you 50/50!

The only thing I predicted was Carson being immune to Wraith Feeding. But the moment was done so well, I did not care that I had an idea it was coming.

[Arica15]

I loved every second of this one.

Beckett. The team, (all of em!) the story, everything........I especially loved this return to a darker Shep.

Yes it was a little contrived in places, but it zipped along and for once the overall story made the little slips forgivable.

Finally an episode this Season that actively makes me want to watch more Atlantis and not switch off and find something more interesting to do instead!

I honestly didn't think they still had an episode like this in them...and I'm delighted to be wrong.

[JackHarkness_Hot]

Finally an episode this Season that actively makes me want to watch more Atlantis and not switch off and find something more interesting to do instead!

Same here!

[Pegasus_SGA]

May I ask what you thought was predictable, because I did not for the love of God see Sheppard killing villagers to get to the Wraith. Well that was just me.

I have to say, I enjoyed the eppie quite a bit, but then I was there during filming, so it will always have a special place in my heart. But apart from those wonderful memories. I loved the ep, because it was a really nice team ep, and oh how i've missed them all working together... on the same planet no less. So that gets extra points in my book.

I enjoyed the story, the setting, the villagers seemed like proper villagers, no totty to be rescued. A good solid ep, loved the scenary and McKay and Carson's bits. There were some funny lines and the two of them trying to squoosh into a dart. Fab. Great to see Teyla there and having something to do. I did wonder what Beckett was doing there. Is he now roaming the galaxy helping survivors? Or is he still based on Atlantis... i'm not quite sure to be honest it didn't seem that clear whether he's out there roaming the galaxy or whether this was just a sideline... anyone help with that?

One thing that I don't get is why people are saying that Sheppard killed the villagers. I've seen that in a few people's post and have no idea where they got the impression that Sheppard actually knew that the villagers were in the mine with the wraith... so anyone?

[cLa]

I really liked this one. The last two parter with Jackson was great but this one felt like the good ole days where the team were together. Lately it seems like they have been finding any excuse to break up the team.

[Pandora's_Box]

One thing that I don't get is why people are saying that Sheppard killed the villagers. I've seen that in a few people's post and have no idea where they got the impression that Sheppard actually knew that the villagers were in the mine with the wraith... so anyone?

Someone had to have set those charges and the only ones with C4 were the Lanteans. So if they set those charges that means they expected to blow up the Wraith. Well, they had to get the Wraith in there somehow so logic would dictate that Sheppard came up with the plan to use those men to lure the Wraith there.

Speculation, to a point yes. But highly probable.

[bluealien]

The head of the council pretended to be on Jervis's side and let them out so they would lead the Wraith to the cave where the Balarians were. They took the bait of course and were willing to hand over all the innocent Balarians to be killed by the Wraith. It was Sheppards plan so therefore he is being blamed. But if the villagers werent so intent on handing the Balarians over they wouldnt have been killed.
So I didn't really have a lot of sympathy for them considering they had no problem with handing over the innocent villagers to be killed by the Wraith, and did they think the Wraith would really just let them walk away afterwards.

If Shep hadn't of blown them up the Wraith probably would have killed them anyway...

[Pegasus_SGA]

Someone had to have set those charges and the only ones with C4 were the Lanteans. So if they set those charges that means they expected to blow up the Wraith. Well, they had to get the Wraith in there somehow so logic would dictate that Sheppard came up with the plan to use those men to lure the Wraith there.

Speculation, to a point yes. But highly probable.

See I couldn't disagree more. I have no doubt that Sheppard set the charges, but there's nothing at all that we saw would indicate that Sheppard set the villagers up to be killed. If he wanted them dead he could have just blown up the jail or left them to the wraith. We know the wraith had their search parties out anyway, so wouldn't it make sense that the leader let them out of the jail (as we saw) Jarvis took his men to the wraith said to them, that he knew where the outsiders were (as told to him by the village leader) and off they went to the mine. Sheppard and the team from what we saw, did not know that the leader of the village was going to release Jarvis. There was nothing we saw or heard from Sheppard that would suggest he knew about the villagers. When the C4 blew he said that should have stopped the wraith, not the wraith and the villagers. So I still don't believe that Sheppard knew about what the council leader was doing. I can't see Sheppard allowing a collaborator to go back with them to Atlantis, could you?

But how do we know it was Sheppard's plan, Blue? There was nothing in Sheppard's actions, words or reactions that would suggest it was his idea that the Bolarians should be killed along with the Wraith.

[Arica15]

Hmm I really can't see why Shep is getting this much stick.....I mean, he didn't force the villagers to betray anyone, they chose to do so. That it backfired on them is almost beside the point. Yes I know they were only trying to save themselves...but how often is that used as an excuse to simply do nothing. It was a dreadful situation, but their own actions led them into the mine, if they had decided not to go into the mine, i.e. not to betray the others, Shep would have had to have done something else.

Not a good solution, not a nice solution, but Shep couldn't save everyone in the situation they were in, he had to make a choice. And that he was willing to make the hard choices for better or for worse is one of the things that made me love Sheppard way back in Season 1. Nice to see him again.

[JackHarkness_Hot]

It was the scene after he donated the C4 that indicated that Sheppard "suggested" to the village leader to go with the plan, I believe his words are, "Nice work". Therefore, chances are it was Sheppard who came up with the plan.

[stclare]

I realy enjoyed this ep. loved the team and mckay/carson banter. No over the top heaving bussomed women needing to be rescued or flirted with

It was an ep where I actualy came away from watching it questioning what I would do in the 'mine' situation. was shep right? what else could he have done etc.

if I can enjoy an ep for its entertainment value and it also have substance that makes me question the decisions made by the characters and there consequences then its a good ep in my book!

4.5/5 (.5 off just casue I would have liked some convo with woolsey in atantis - i miss the check ins)

[bluealien]

But how do we know it was Sheppard's plan, Blue? There was nothing in Sheppard's actions, words or reactions that would suggest it was his idea that the Bolarians should be killed along with the Wraith.

The plan was for Jervis to lead the Wraith to the cave and once they were all in the cave it was blown up.. so how could Shep not expect Jervis and his men not to be killed along with the Wraith, when the cave was rigged with C4.
I agree that it was the villagers own choice to take the bait.. they didnt have to lead the Wraith there in the first place. They had no problem in sacrificing the Bolarians but instead the tables got turned on them..

[Pegasus_SGA]

The plan was for Jervis to lead the Wraith to the cave and once they were all in the cave it was blown up.. so how could Shep not expect Jervis and his men not to be killed along with the Wraith, when the cave was rigged with C4.
I agree that it was the villagers own choice to take the bait.. they didnt have to lead the Wraith there in the first place. They had no problem in sacrificing the Bolarians but instead the tables got turned on them..

I just watched it again, and I think I can see what people mean, when Sheppard says, 'Nice work'. I can see your point, but what we don't know completely that Shep was aware that the other villagers went into the mines with the Wraith. Yes, I can see it being suggestive now, listening to that bit back again. But I don't know with all the fuss, I expected something bigger. I do prefer it when the morality is slightly skewered, but I didn't think this was anything along the scale of what happened in Miller's crossing. But nice to see a bit of dark Shep resurfacing. Bring it on I say.

And on a completely shallow point Blue, I luffs your sig.

[JackHarkness_Hot]

I think they knew, their look wasn't one of joy the village leader was in angst. Poor man, if Heightmeyer was still alive he will definitely need her services.