'Outsiders' (512) General Discussion

[Linda06]

At least I'm already getting a sense of character complexity and depth just by watching this debate. Things are, surprsingly, looking up.

Don't get your hopes up to much...It won't last

May I ask what you thought was predictable, because I did not for the love of God see Sheppard killing villagers to get to the Wraith. Well that was just me.

He sacrificed a few to save many!

Those few traitors had to die in order to save the village and the Balarans. What part of that don't people understand. Of course it was a sad and unfortunate decision, but it had to happen. No need to cry puppy tears.

I agree!

* When did Teyla stop being able to sense the Wraith? They just waltzed into town without her saying a word.

I was gonna post about that then I forgot Yeah I noticed that too..>What was with that

I only watched this episode because there was no Keller and we got Carson back.

Oh that's another reason I loved it...No Keller.....And we got the core team together again

[Ruffles]

But my biggest source of confusion is with Beckett... I cannot for the life of me remember anything in "Whispers" (or any other ep.) where it's mentioned/suggested that Beckett is back to Atlantis to stay. I know he went to Earth, then came back (Whispers), but I just don't remember it being established that he was still going to continue working, in some capacity, with the SGA expedition.

Maybe one of you can refresh my memory?

The beginning and ending scenes of Whispers where Rodney talks to Carson while he's packing. Carson isn't going back to Earth. He's going to worlds in Pegasus that have been infected by the Hoffan drug to work on a cure. It's why he suggests to John that Porter would be a good person to have on his research team.

[Laura Dove]

A good ol' episode IMO, strongly established in the SGA storyline (unlike a certain episode last week... ). I love it when the characters take morally ambiguous decisions and the show acknowledges the moral ambiguity.

The episode didn't turn out as well as it could have, though, so I give it only a 4/5. I agree with aboleyn24:

I just didn't like all of the contrived plots, [...] Carson-clone deciding to go and get more supplies so that he and Rodney could be Wraith bait..... again. The additional Wraith showing up at the gate just at the right time to foil back up also seemed been there done that to me.

Also I wondered where the doctor with whom Beckett feel in love in "Whisper" was (but that thought didn't last long), I missed more involvement from Teyla (she was there, but didn't do that much), and I found it a bit hard to believe that Carson could be able to hold off several warriors by himself. Those wraith on the hive were really, really clueless, weren't they?

Just a note about the makeup people who messed up the Commander's neck like with Todd in "Miller's Crossing". But as a character, I loved this Commander. Although he didn't keep his word with the Balaran who allowed him to capture Beckett and McKay, he didn't appear as arrogant and cruel as many other wraith. Too bad he had to die.

As much as I enjoyed several episodes this season, I wish there were more episodes like this!

[Briangate78]

another been there, done that, medicore filler episode. What a shock!
What a slow, drawn out death this show is having.

lol

[GoSpikey]

Definitely!

I can see the strings that are tying all the episodes together this season. Sheppard's decision to sacrifice those men to save the rest of the villagers is a great lead in to Inquisition next week.

It wasn't even meant to be one, because this one was supposed to come AFTER Inquisition.

Now Inquisition leads into The Prodigal, which might be better.

[GoSpikey]

I am rather disturbed by how many people thought it was 'fun' that humans got blown up in that mine. Remember, they were only doing what they thought was right to PROTECT their FAMILIES. It may be morally questionable, but no more questionable than Sheppard just MURDERING them in an explosion!

God. I am suddenly very much afraid of you people...


das

What das means to say is:

How DARE you think an episode where the Wraith get ONCE AGAIN blown up is 'fun'.

Now, be a grown up girl and don't try to hide it.

[Briangate78]

A good ol' episode IMO, strongly established in the SGA storyline (unlike a certain episode last week... ). I love it when the characters take morally ambiguous decisions and the show acknowledges the moral ambiguity.

The episode didn't turn out as well as it could have, though, so I give it only a 4/5. I agree with aboleyn24:



Also I wondered where the doctor with whom Beckett feel in love in "Whisper" was (but that thought didn't last long), I missed more involvement from Teyla (she was there, but didn't do that much), and I found it a bit hard to believe that Carson could be able to hold off several warriors by himself. Those wraith on the hive were really, really clueless, weren't they?

Just a note about the makeup people who messed up the Commander's neck like with Todd in "Miller's Crossing". But as a character, I loved this Commander. Although he didn't keep his word with the Balaran who allowed him to capture Beckett and McKay, he didn't appear as arrogant and cruel as many other wraith. Too bad he had to die.

As much as I enjoyed several episodes this season, I wish there were more episodes like this!

This was a good solid episode following a epic 2 part mid-season episode. I think this episode even raised the bar with character development. I would five his episode more of a 4.5/5 only because Carson really sold this episode and I waited 12 episodes for a good Carson episode. Although his first one was not too bad. This was night and day compared to "Whispers".

[Reiko]

I conclude that from this convo that (potential) character development still exists?

[Laura Dove]

This was a good solid episode following a epic 2 part mid-season episode. I think this episode even raised the bar with character development. I would five his episode more of a 4.5/5 only because Carson really sold this episode and I waited 12 episodes for a good Carson episode. Although his first one was not too bad. This was night and day compared to "Whispers".

If I was willing to give half points, I'd be noting on 10 instead. I agree with you that character development deserved a 5/5, but the defects plot-wise lower the note a bit.

(I strongly disagree about "The Lost Tribe" being epic, but you already know that. )

[Briangate78]

I conclude that from this convo that (potential) character development still exists?

LOL, yeah the character moments in this episode were really good and added a lot to the characters and continued their previous developments.

[GoSpikey]

This episode gave me more 'squeeeeeeeeeeeeee' than The Lost Tribe did, to be fair.

[Mekarri]

I am rather disturbed by how many people thought it was 'fun' that humans got blown up in that mine. Remember, they were only doing what they thought was right to PROTECT their FAMILIES. It may be morally questionable, but no more questionable than Sheppard just MURDERING them in an explosion!

God. I am suddenly very much afraid of you people...


das

The humans needed to be blow up. I must admit, I really got a little satisfaction in the end. If you collaborate with the enemy then you need to die with the enemy. Also how many time have Sheppard have been bitten on the butt for not taking care of the problem from the begining? Look at how he ended up getting involve with Todd. The guys that was willing to sell innocent people to wraith can't be trusted and they had no remose about sending people to their death.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

Anybody notice there've been more headshots this season? I loved the scene where Ronon shot the Wraith in the face and knocked him off his feet.

[tombraider]

Wow. The Outsiders just reminded me why I fell in love with Atlantis and SG-1 in the first place. It is not just the adventure, not just awfully photogenic heros and general sci-fi sense of awe. It is the tale of humanity being imperfect but still trying, about most decisions being morally ambiguous, about life being all shades of grey and not just black and white. This is the episode which makes me really regret that Atlantis is cancelled.
I can't help it, but for the last couple of months, with the exception of the recent two-parter, the episodes were plain bordering on slightly boring and nowhere-ish. Just regular adventures of the week without contributing much to the main stry arc (I might be a little dim, but what exactly is the story arc this season? Todd's gathering more and more power? Newfound Asgard tribe? New foes who flashed in Daedalus Variations? I am fuzzy here.) But this is the one I am going to rewatch and to treasure. All characters are at their best, especially Beckett, Rodney and Sheppard. They are heroic and cunning in very difficult and ever changing circumstances, just the way we love them.
It is great that the writers finally came up with a very engaging storyiline to continue the saga of Hoffan drug in Pegasus Galaxy. Like every serious alteration to the balance of power in the galaxy, it is a very ambiguous two sided thing, originally designed to protect people and repel the wraith, it actually does the exact opposite. Wraith come to a planet which is a shelter to some Hoffan plague survivor refugees and demand them being handed over or else. Original settlers are divided, some want to save their derriere, some have too much conscience to do that. Even some refugees are divided, being all hunted and desperate, at least one is desperate enough to try to buy his ticket from the Wraith lab by betraying Beckett. Some can say that it ends too neatly that all the ones trying to buy their freedom by the lives of otheres are punished. But it is so very fitting, as betrayal sort of upsets the balance and has no other way but begetting another betrayal. This episode hammers this message hard, but it is a kind of message that needs to be hammered. You reap what you sow. We can see that in the eyes of the man who betrays his kin in the final twist. He does that to save everybody, Atlanteans, refugees and the villagers, the people he betrays were the ones who wanted to give up refugees without thinking right from the start, these are bad men he is betraying. When asked the question, if his conscience can take it, he responds that he would have to live with that. And after baddies are buried by the explosion, we see his eyes. It does not matter if you betrayed bad ones. It is the fact that you had to betray, it would always weight on the conscience. Brilliant writing and acting all around.
Another aspect I absolutely loved is Carson. I always knew he had chops, just not many opportunities to shine not just as a brilliant doctor and scientist, but as a man of courage and ingenuity. Of course there was his sacrifice in Sunday. Then bitter regret at losing such great guy. And he is finally back! I mean totally back in the midst of action, not just as another doctor. Here we got to see the same person who does not think long to sacrifice himself for others as soon as he figured out how. It is the Hoffan virus again, this time really helping to protect people, when Carson bravely lets Wraith to feed on him in a suicidal attempt. The stint works without killing Carson and it helps to resolve the situation. Now I was especially glad that they brought him back. This was one hell of an episode. Hoping for more Carson action before the end.
Overall it was highly enjoyable, if I could have rated it 11, I would.

[garhkal]

All of his scenes were great. From the "doing no harm" speech, to standing up to the Wraith commander, to his humourous banter with Rodney as they evaded capture by the Wraith.

And I don't even like Carson, but I'm glad we finally got to see some great character moments from him.

That is true. It showed imo how much carson has matured and gained in confidence to stand up to that wraith commander.. now why he did not do that with Michael i don't know.

I thought it added a lot of darkness to Sheppard's character, continuing the events of "Miller's Crossing". I was like Wow, collateral damage! It was not a happy wow, it was a wow this show has gotten dark and NO, its not the lighting on the set.

And we could see the look of worry on the faces of the other villagers, and iirc teyla as well..

* When did Teyla stop being able to sense the Wraith? They just waltzed into town without her saying a word.

Over the seasons this has gone away slowly... Heck even in season 2, there were few times she did not sense any wraith..

[quote]The bit when Teyla scolded Ronon for stunning the villagers was so funny /quote]

As was Ronon's reply "But it was fun!"

While a good ep, it was not up there.. i give it 6 out of 10