'Outsiders' (512) General Discussion

[Briangate78]

I was expecting an ambush personally. Killing the villagers was...cold.

I did like the episode though. It was a standard one, but still good. And it was nice seeing Carson again.

I think the Carson and Mckay chemistry sold the episode. I have to agree that killing the villagers who did betray the other ones was rather well I guess cold-blooded is the word.

[Xicer]

May I ask what you thought was predictable, because I did not for the love of God see Sheppard killing villagers to get to the Wraith. Well that was just me.

The second I saw Jervis I knew he was gonna be dead by the end of the episode, and the looks Sheppard was giving him weren't too friendly either (can't say I blame him). I knew either Sheppard or the Wraith would end up killing him in the end.

A lot of the other events were pretty predictable. By the time the Wraith arrived, it was pretty obvious that some of the villagers would want to get rid of Balarans, and the others including the Atlantis crew would do the opposite. At the same time at least one of the Balarans would probably be thinking the same thing, which is what led to Rodney and Carson getting caught. I knew Carson had the Hoffan drug inside of him by the time Rodney noticed Carson knew something. The rest was pretty standard, team escapes, bad guys die, villagers are saved and get relocated. Honestly I just feel like I'm watching the same episode over and over again.

[Reiko]

There's awesome Carson stuff so that should make you happy.

I'm sure it will. But I'll still have to see for myself!

[Daniela]

Those few traitors had to die in order to save the village and the Balarans. What part of that don't people understand. Of course it was a sad and unfortunate decision, but it had to happen. No need to cry puppy tears.

[star47]

I was pretty shocked at first with Shephard blowing up the cave with Jervis and his men in it, along with the Wraith, but then I have to remember that if things had gone Jervis' way, they would have found all the Balarans in the cave who would then have been killed by the Wraith, so maybe it's a case of "what goes around, comes around". He certainly didn't seem to suffer any guilty conscience about leading the Wraith to kill a group of innocent people.

[Ruffles]

I found Outsiders to be interesting but not as good as I'd hoped for. I didn't have any particular expectations - all I knew about it was from last week's preview.

Good stuff:

* Carson - FANTASTIC here. I think one thing this ep showed was the difference 2 years with Michael made. In Duet, Carson wanted to save the dying Wraith in the shot down dart. Here, he purposefully kills the commander - not an ounce of remorse or guilt in his actions. He has shades of the man he was before (clone or not, the things that make him Carson - DNA and memories - are there) - the gentle teasing of McKay especially in the end scene as they head to the mess hall, the gentleness of his care for patients, the guilt he feels for helping Michael. But he is not the same. Two years as a POW in the hands of a madman have changed him.

* Rodney - S5 Rodney has returned! A capable fighter (Ronon and Teyla thought they needed John AND Rodney to fight the Wraith at the gate), not panicking in the Wraith cell or when Sheppard asks him to risk even more by disabling the hive's weapons, taking the ribbing from his friends (funny stories) without getting defensive. He's still a genius, still snarky, but calmer. Good to have you back! Speaking of which...

* TEAM! Was that a team I saw, well, briefly before they were split up?

* dealing with the fallout of the Hoffan drug and Michael. Good job of follow through.

* Sheppard's solution. Not because I thought those people deserved to die. Not because I thought it was the only way to defeat the Wraith. But because it is true to his character. He closed the shield against the Genii. He had a conversation with Wallace. He used the nature of Jervis and his men against them. He didn't force those men to go to the Wraith or to go into the mines. But the men threw their lot in with the Wraith and paid the price. And the villager leader was in on it. The look on his face after the cavern blew was not of outrage for being tricked, but of guilt for betraying his people.


Not so good

* When did Teyla stop being able to sense the Wraith? They just waltzed into town without her saying a word.

* I didn't really get interested until McKay and Beckett were captured. I appreciated the storyline, but I would have preferred seeing more team instead of all the exposition by the villagers.

* The first group given to the Wraith including Novo (?) just disappeared. Did the Wraith kill them? Did they escape? Were they taken to the hive?


I did find the ep enjoyable, but, like last week, I was a bit disappointed. I wanted to see more team, to be more emotionally involved, to learn something new.

Next week looks great!

[aboleyn24]

I really seriously disliked this episode and I am usually a SGA cheerleader.

Lets start with the man sized plot hole that had Teyla forgetting her Wraith sense and not being alerted to the presence of the Wraith until the villager screamed and Sheppard helpfully said Wraith after we've seen them incase the rest of the team forgot what they looked like.

I found the entire episode predictable. Not because I saw any spoilers because I've been doing a really good job at avoiding all things spoilery.

I will say that I did like that both sides, the original villager and the refugees had people willing to do anything to save either themselves or the village in general.

I just didn't like all of the contrived plots, starting with Teyla's early detection alarm being ignored, to Carson-clone deciding to go and get more supplies so that he and Rodney could be Wraith bait..... again. The additional Wraith showing up at the gate just at the right time to foil back up also seemed been there done that to me. I suspected that Carson had the Wraith immunity early on and knew what he had planned the moment he refused to tell anything to Rodney.

I also knew Jervis was being set up. It was obvious to me that the other guy was lying. As for Sheppard being responsible for his death, well Jervis had free will. He didn't have to take the bait. He was more than willing to lead the Wraith to a bunch of sick people. I know he really thought he was doing what was right, but he was a bit of a tool.

[TraK]

i thought that at the beginning of this episode it would be boring and unoriginal. It had a similar premise to previous episodes.

However by the second half it started to become exiting and new, from the point where Carson kills the wraith leader. The end was even more surprising. i havent seen a wraith battle against the whole team (most of them anyway) for a long time, and it was nice to see mass wraith killing.

But wtf Sheppard? he killed those rebel dudes along with the wraith. that was so uncalled for. Not one of the best episodes but it was a quite entertaining

[Puddle Splasher]

An ep. in the mold of SG1's "Line In The Sand" and a great one for character development (Carson, Sheppard). Started out looking like another predictable plot... then the ethical twist (C4+mine=Wraith/Jervis crushed). Then again, are we positive that it was Sheppard's idea and not Elson's idea? What was being suggested by that long stare by Elson?

Funny line for me was (and I apologize, I'll have to paraphrase) when the Wraith on Hive becoming aware of the explosion saying, "There has been an seismic disturbance on the planet's surface..." I know it wasn't intended to be funny but for some reason it caught me odd/funny. That Carson/Beckett banter was great too!

Disliked rifles that Jervis' mob used which were CLEARLY Earth-based - what's up with that!? You do not get a day off designing new props just because you came up with a novel new alien suit in the same season.

I know the weapon couldn't have been advanced but design something "foreign" enough not to arrest my attention from the story at hand... some semi-advanced slingshot for all I care.

But my biggest source of confusion is with Beckett... I cannot for the life of me remember anything in "Whispers" (or any other ep.) where it's mentioned/suggested that Beckett is back to Atlantis to stay. I know he went to Earth, then came back (Whispers), but I just don't remember it being established that he was still going to continue working, in some capacity, with the SGA expedition.

Maybe one of you can refresh my memory?

[david2708]

Another been there, done that, medicore filler episode. What a shock!
What a slow, drawn out death this show is having.

[CazzBlade]

I really enjoyed this ep Good old fashioned team ep

To be honest never thought of Teyla not sensing the Wraith until I read it on here so it didn't bother me.

Loved the set up of the village, it been soooo long since we've actually got involved in the dealings of another civilisation, I really enjoyed the new characters from the village .

The bit when Teyla scolded Ronon for stunning the villagers was so funny

Carson was fantastic! I've felt a bit lacklustre about clone!Carson but I thought he was great in the ep. He was in it for medical reason *cough*unlike certain other doctors at times *cough*. I loved it when he took out the wraith commander! I thought 'oh god they're killing Carson again' then I thought Shep would get one of the Wraith to give his life back and then I realised he wasn't ageing so duh must have the hoffen drug

And I totally didn't figure out that the village leader wasn't betraying them When he went to the cell I was like 'what's he doing??? I thought he was a good guy! I liked him *pouts*', I didn't suss that it was a set up until the wraith got to the mines and the villages weren't there.

Loved the end too, with Shep rolling away from the beam and his concern when he thought Teyla was going to be taken up

[JackHarkness_Hot]

I love this episode for numerous reasons -

1) Beckett and McKay back together again horray!
2) Beckett the sweet soul and you can see he has really grown since (1x01) "Rising".
3) No Keller involved (what a breath of fresh air).
4) Had a classic brilliant Stargate storyline going on with twists and turns.
5) We got Teyla and she spoke for more than 10 seconds.

What I didn't quite like was -

1) The ending obviously talking about McKay's relationship with Keller.
2) The Wraith spoke too much amongst themselves, they're telepathic remember?

What was missing -

1) I reckon was Dr. Weir, for me it felt like it lacked this wee thing which I determined to be was Dr. Weir. Her essence, I can see her radio-ing to Sheppard for an update once Teyla dialled the gate and her going,

"John, get those people back here, we got medics and defence ready, we're waiting for you!"

Then the episode closing with Weir looking at John in her office with her "I don't like it but I can see why you did it"-look once she found out how he got the leader of the village to trick Jervis.

All in all - this episode was brilliant, better than last week's disappointing episode.

[FoolishPleasure]

I only watched this episode because there was no Keller and we got Carson back.

The Carson/McKay banter made me miss Carson much more, and realize just how crummy Keller is. Whiny Keller and her love life can't match the charisma of Carson.

The Carson/McKay scenes were great. The rest was boring. It was hard to stay awake at times.

[trekie]

I think it was a good episode overall, not the 'I'll watch again right away' kind, but still good.

So, the episode started out a little slow for me, but after Beckett and McKay got captured it become more fast-paced.

And that brings us to the two-men commando of McKay and Beckett on the hive, which was awesome by definition. That's what I missed in the previous Beckett episodes this season. He finally had a chance to really shine alongside McKay. I don't only mean the banter but the ethical aspects of the story with the Hoffan drug. So we got both the drama and the comedy.

Speaking of comedy, you just had to love the boys marching through the hive ship like they've owned the place. Okay, they might haven't been that confident, fine, they haven't been at all. But still, you had to love that they've tried.

I was expecting an ambush personally. Killing the villagers was...cold.

Yeah, me too. And to be honest I wasn't too keen on it. I understand that it seemed the only way to go at the moment and I really didn't feel sorry for them. But what bothered me about it is that Sheppard didn't remotely seem conflicted about blowing them up, while the leader guy was obviously feeling guilty beside him. It wasn't Miller's Crossing's dark-Sheppard for me, it was more like he didn't care, which is just not very Sheppard like. Although I could have read his expression wrong in that scene, so I don't know...

And I totally didn't figure out that the village leader wasn't betraying them When he went to the cell I was like 'what's he doing??? I thought he was a good guy! I liked him *pouts*', I didn't suss that it was a set up until the wraith got to the mines and the villages weren't there.

Don't feel too bad, I totally bought that too. What I did saw a mile away was the feeding on Carson thing and the final escape of the boys.

[Linda06]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell......I really enjoyed this ep.......FINALLY we get a good ol team ep with all the team playing their part...It's been few and far between the last couple of seasons so i'm glad we got some traditional stargate again

Teyla was finally prominent in this ep She wasn't used as a babysitter or to hold up the walls Alan rocks when it comes to writing Teyla...

I don't normally like McKay all that much but I like him alot better when he's with Carson...They play off each other so well and I can tolerate Rodney better

Carson Carson Carson.....My doctor baby issssssssssssss baaaaaaaaaaaaaack....Whispers really sucked for him but he was back to his best here Can't we have him back for good

Oh and that leader guy.....TBH I didn't see that one coming...I really thought in the end he was gonna betray the others but he didn't....As hard as it probably was for him it was the lesser of twpo evil's...It had to be done..I don't think they had any other choice...

Now this is the kind of ep that makes me very happy....The whole team being involved and not being left behind or left out...I hope we get more eps like this the rest of the season but from the spoilers I very much doubt it which is a real shame because this is what I call real stargate...

Alan is a god