There was... absolutely nothing wrong with this episode... ... ... ... somehow

[nx01a]

One of my main problems with clip shows is, well, the clips shown. They're usually boring. This one featured all the great CGI moments [and not so great ones like BAMSR], so I was happy.

As for the trial plot, it was nicely done. Woolsey finally came into his own. They mixed in the politics of Pegasus well in various ways, from the effects on the peasants to the imperial plans of the Genii.
Now, if only Ronon, Mckay and Teyla had testified before Woolsey showed up, it would have been perfect.

[Brain_Child]

I hate clip shows - I'd rather just have one less episode in a season if they can't afford not to have a clip show.

This is my line of thinking. While clip shows arent necessarily bad, they do have the effect of pushing back a "complete" SGA episode for another week. Its another week long wait to see all new stargate.

admitidely stargate does the best clip shows, but it still doesnt compare to a standard full length episode

[Shan Bruce Lee]

I think hell just froze over

[Achaja]

(If I correctly understood) - the bad thing in the episode was promoting bribery! I know, that it was a trick, their pass to freedom but I would probably suspect something more...I don't know...moral? Woolsey thinks - oh what a problem, we can afford it! The easiest way is to paid... now I don't know if they are worth something if they can't stand face to face with a problem, moral problem I think. I know the judges weren't ok, and the whole trial was a farce but what does the team proove by their behaviour? It reminds me of arrogance that some countries and goverments have in real life...sad!

If I'm wrong, or misunderstood please tell me)

[jenks]

(If I correctly understood) - the bad thing in the episode was promoting bribery! I know, that it was a trick, their pass to freedom but I would probably suspect something more...I don't know...moral? Woolsey thinks - oh what a problem, we can afford it! The easiest way is to paid... now I don't know if they are worth something if they can't stand face to face with a problem, moral problem I think. I know the judges weren't ok, and the whole trial was a farce but what does the team proove by their behaviour? It reminds me of arrogance that some countries and goverments have in real life...sad!

If I'm wrong, or misunderstood please tell me)

Given what they've done in the past, I don't know why...

[silvercomet]

I liked that ep. Not one of my favourite ones, but not bad either. And I liked to see 'the old gang' again.

What was wrong with it: I had the feeling the story was rushed. They hadn't handle it with enough depth for this subject. And there wasn't enough time to show the whole team. Maybe a two-parter or no clips would have been better.

[DrCheese]

I hate clip shows - I'd rather just have one less episode in a season if they can't afford not to have a clip show.

Exactly! Although it's the fault of Sci FI for not insisting they don't do clip shows in the original contract.
If a network orders say, 24 esp's, they should get 24 esp's. Not 23 and 1/4.

[Emerald01]

Someone is going to have to define "inherently wrong" for me. From the first post, it seemed to include plot holes and such, but now I'm not sure. Because I found oh so many things to be wrong with this episode.

Let's set aside the clips and technology concerns for a moment. Let's even put aside the ridiculous "They created the replicators and started the problem, but they're not here, and you are" garbage.

You have one judge who is reasonable. He has to know that the woman next to him was freakin' crazy and should no way have been on that jury. In any case. the people from Atlantis KILLED the people who killed her family.

For anyone in the Pegasus galaxy to think that they would be able to spirit Sheppard & Co. away is insane.

TWO of the team members are Pegasus natives. Why was Sheppard the only one standing up there to talk?

And just WHO were the people of Atlantis supposed to consult in their decisions? There was no coalition. Just a bunch of planets apparently with a single village near the stargate (with a few noted exceptions of course).

Did anyone ever think that the whole ball got rolling with the simple act of John picking a necklace up out of the dirt? That's what brought the wraith to Athos, got people captured, etc. That put things squarely right back on the wraith which were created by the Ancients, and are all dead. Case closed.

I have to cut it off there, as it's just waiting to turn into a rant. This episode fell right into my bottom 3 with Sanctuary and er. I can't even recall the other at the moment, so I guess it's bottom 2 for this one. Maybe even bottom 1. God, I hated this episode. And that is the first time I have ever said that about an SGA episode. I hated it. I don't even want to know who wrote it because I'm afraid I would have to start slapping some somebodies. I can't understand how this made it out of the writers' room.

Oh sorry. I'll stop now.
Em

[michellec24_7]

I agree, I think this was a bit of a lazy episode, but maybe it was because too many people were on holiday for filming? lol!!!

As this is the supposed last season (which I'm still struggling to comprehend) I think they could've certainly done more with it.... I'm suprised there weren't more representatives from other human worlds?

I guess I'm just a bit bitter cause I don't want it to ever end so looking for any extra ways to keep the storyline going, I'd like to see more with this Coalition xox

[FallenAngelII]

You have one judge who is reasonable. He has to know that the woman next to him was freakin' crazy and should no way have been on that jury. In any case. the people from Atlantis KILLED the people who killed her family.

She never directly said that Atlantis killed her people and her family. And the reasonable judge was not in control of the court, he was just one of three judges in a kangaroo court orchestrated by someone behind the scenes.

For anyone in the Pegasus galaxy to think that they would be able to spirit Sheppard & Co. away is insane.

Why? Claim it's a friendly mission, stun them. It's not that hard. What, are they psychic? They're not Superman. They've been stunned and captured even in battle situations when they were on alert.

TWO of the team members are Pegasus natives. Why was Sheppard the only one standing up there to talk?

Because he's team leader and military commander of Atlantis? Not to mention that the Atlantis expedition consists mostly of non-Pegasus natives, why should a Pegasus native be their representative?

And just WHO were the people of Atlantis supposed to consult in their decisions? There was no coalition. Just a bunch of planets apparently with a single village near the stargate (with a few noted exceptions of course).

Doesn't change the fact that the expedition took huge risks and made very big decisions that would affect the entire galaxy without asking anyone.

Did anyone ever think that the whole ball got rolling with the simple act of John picking a necklace up out of the dirt? That's what brought the wraith to Athos, got people captured, etc. That put things squarely right back on the wraith which were created by the Ancients, and are all dead. Case closed.

The Ancients did not create the Wraith, that's a myth from a throw-away line. As for the necklace, how would they know that? Only the people of Atlantis could possibly know that.

And John was the one to pick up that necklace. And that was just one action. It alerted one Hive to their existence. That Hive then went to cull Athos and John went on a rescue mission that ended with awakening every single Wraith in the galaxy. Also, John did it all.

[Emerald01]

She never directly said that Atlantis killed her people and her family. And the reasonable judge was not in control of the court, he was just one of three judges in a kangaroo court orchestrated by someone behind the scenes.

The team was being held responsible for the deaths of her husband and children. The trial was about Atlantis being responsible, "directly or indirectly" for the many deaths and bad stuffs like awakening the wraith.

Why? Claim it's a friendly mission, stun them. It's not that hard. What, are they psychic? They're not Superman. They've been stunned and captured even in battle situations when they were on alert.

That isn't what they did. They made it known exactly who they were. Therefore, for them to think that Atlantis would stand by when they had blatantly kidnapped the team would be stupid in the extreme. Atlantis knew who had been responsible for taking the team and would pretty much hunt them down. Anyone in the Pegasus Galaxy who knew even as much as those goobers did should have known that they'd never be allowed to actually exile the team without consequences.

Because he's team leader and military commander of Atlantis? Not to mention that the Atlantis expedition consists mostly of non-Pegasus natives, why should a Pegasus native be their representative?

The entire team was on trial. A decent trial would allow all parties to speak. Logically, people blaming Atlantis for all the Pegasus woes should want to question two natives who have joined up with Atlantis. Equally, Teyla and Ronon, knowing the charges (and themselves being in jeopardy) should have asked to speak as Pegasus natives and why they felt Atlantis should not be "punished" for the charges made.

Doesn't change the fact that the expedition took huge risks and made very big decisions that would affect the entire galaxy without asking anyone.

I'll say it again a different way. Who do you think they should have asked? The leader of the Athosians? Wait... They were rescuing her from a hive ship, so they couldn't ask her at first. After that, you could pretty much consider her asked. Her people were ALL fine. Should Atlantis have gone around polling worlds? Any people of significance were not in power at times of major decisions, or they were off doing really stupid things of their own.

The Ancients did not create the Wraith, that's a myth from a throw-away line. As for the necklace, how would they know that? Only the people of Atlantis could possibly know that.

When did someone decide that was a myth from a throw-a-way line? I recall one of the Ancients acknowledging that the Wraith were of their own creation. And they don't need to know about the necklace. I was only proving my point that they had completely insufficient information for their charges. Also that the necklace was something which should have been brought up in the defense because it was that which summoned those first Wraith and set the rest of the events in motion. Knowing this, John could have mentioned it. Therefore, the awakening would be the Wraith's doing, and John's by sheer accident of having the wrong gene in the wrong cave at the wrong time.

And John was the one to pick up that necklace. And that was just one action. It alerted one Hive to their existence. That Hive then went to cull Athos and John went on a rescue mission that ended with awakening every single Wraith in the galaxy. Also, John did it all.

By himself? *blink* I believe I saw a different pilot episode... Nobody in the Peg Galaxy could claim they would have done differently in John's situation. None of them bothered to actually consider Atlantis' situation in any case.

I suppose I'll look up "kangaroo" court/trial at some point, but I'm inferring that people mean it to be a trumped up trial with transparent allegations for the purpose of meeting a specific goal. If I'm wrong, someone will have to let me know. I move without that assumption. Here's why.

If the Genii were behind it, that could make a certain amount of sense if they wanted to be the most powerful peeps around. The problem with that is that eliminating only John's team wouldn't move the Genii forward. A conviction *might* convince other worlds to not ally with Atlantis, but really? Alienate Atlantis? The Genii couldn't openly wield power in that situation, and they can rule the coalition with or without Atlantis because Atlantis probably wouldn't care.

If the purpose was to get Atlantis to participate more with the rest of the galaxy, then anyone with half a brain who'd interacted with them would know that all it would take would be to ask. However, with the judgment so close, it is illogical to assume that was the purpose as a conviction would have definitely not done so, and a conviction was likely until Woolsey stepped up.

So what purpose would this kind of trial actually serve? What purpose could any of those people have had. They wanted to make a statement about not being under Atlantis' boot? They wanted to ensure their worlds would be left alone when the Wraith came with nobody from Atlantis to come and help? Satisfy the desire for vengeance for people who lost loved ones? What motive could any of those people have had for actually blatantly luring the team in under false pretenses and threatening their lives? If you have a logical answer for that, I would be fascinated to read it.

Cheers!
Em

[Alpaca]

I do not enjoy flashback eps. To me, it seems like the writers were being lazy or ran out of ideas and stringed out the ep with long flashback clips. Then there was the woman in the trial. Clearly an unfair trial. She should have never been allowed to be present. No matter what anyone says, she's not going to sway her vote.

Since Atlantis is one major player in this galaxy, it makes absolutely no sense to even put them on trial. Shouldn't you want all available hands on deck to fight the enemy?

I did enjoy Wooley's performance though. Unlike previous eps where he was lacking in confidence, he was clearly operating within his element here.

[Snowman37]

First off, thread's been dormant for years. I surprised it hasn't been deleted! Second, clip shows are done for budgetary reasons. It allows the producers to take money from one episode and put it towards another episode that has a higher budget than normal.

As for why Atlantis was on trial, it was because the coalition of planets had come to believe that the expedition was doing more harm than good. The Atlantis expedition did, after all, wake the Wraith. However, as Sheppard pointed out, they were totally unaware of who and want the Wraith were when they arrived in Pegasus.

[jelgate]

Threads aren't deleted unless they have been the focus of some major rule breaking

[Snowman37]

Ah. I've posted on boards before where old threads are deleted. Thanks for clearing that up.