'Infection' (517) General Discussion

[Nathan22]

Great episode!

[Atlantis Atheist]

I love McKay. I like Keller. And I'm completely enamored of McKeller. I noticed the natural chemistry between the two in season four and hoped that this would be a relationship that the show explored. It was the first relationship that I believed would occur organically.

That said, how is it that the writers/directors manage to make certain scenes between the two so awkward and cringe-worthy? The mile-high club in Brain Storm? Please. Get her to a hospital and into a change of clothes. The rub on the shoulders in "Infection"? It was like they just met. You guys have touched women before, right? Get some women to read over your scripts, for goodness sake.

Save McKeller without inciting a hate war. Rodney should have a happy ending. And I don't mean that in the porn way.

[Pandora's_Box]

I love McKay. I like Keller. And I'm completely enamored of McKeller. I noticed the natural chemistry between the two in season four and hoped that this would be a relationship that the show explored. It was the first relationship that I believed would occur organically.

That said, how is it that the writers/directors manage to make certain scenes between the two so awkward and cringe-worthy? The mile-high club in Brain Storm? Please. Get her to a hospital and into a change of clothes. The rub on the shoulders in "Infection"? It was like they just met. You guys have touched women before, right? Get some women to read over your scripts, for goodness sake.

Save McKeller without inciting a hate war. Rodney should have a happy ending. And I don't mean that in the porn way.

.....I love you.....

[dasNdanger]

A lot I liked about the episode...so I'll get the 'didn't like' part out of the way...

I am really, REALLY tired of all the knee-jerk 'let's kill Wraith' talk, especially when Todd is at least trying to find some sort of way that they can coexist - sacrificing so much, even his identity - just to make things better for humans, and possibly for him. Notice, I said possibly; he's taking huge risks for Sheppard & Co. with NO guarantee that it will be to his ultimate advantage. The only one who truly voiced the opinion that the therapy was hopefully to the advantage of ALL (Wraith included) was Keller. I really like that girl, she's got a good heart. Woolsey, too, wanted the therapy to work, but not sure what his motivations are - just to keep his job, to please the higher-ups, save humans, or to do all of that while, at the same time, preserving a unique species. But, for the most part, the rest would just be happy exterminating an entire species before finding a workable solution.

So, that's my main problem with the ep, and my main problem with the team as a whole.

However, this episode had some EXCELLENT moments - it was full of action, reveals, and cranky Todd! I LOVE me some cranky Todd!

Things I really liked:

1. Flesh-eating zombie Wraith. Serves the Lanteans right for coming up with a gene therapy BEFORE opening the first Pegasus McDonalds.

2. Learning that Wraith and Hive exchange fluids during hibernation - confirms that there is a symbiotic relationship between the two. Sheppard's reaction to this information was priceless, too. "Great. So we're flying around in a giant tumor."

3. "Somebody woke up on the wrong side of the pod this morning." Loved Todd's interaction with McKay, Keller and Sheppard in this.

4. Liked learning the history of Wraith biology, seeing Todd discover a new word - 'bug'.

5. Todd showing off his piloting skills! He rocked - and landed not just a hive (which is 'a tricky proposition in the best of circumstances'), but he landed a disintegrating, half-hive, without all systems and engines functioning, or even available. I think this HAD to impress Sheppard.

6. Loved Todd and Keller's compassion convo - which, I believe, played a role in how Todd viewed Sheppard at the end.

7. I REALLY wanted to kick Sheppard in the rear end - I hated him throughout most of the episode, right up to the very end when he showed that aforementioned compassion. He redeemed himself here in my eyes, and I just hope nothing comes along to ruin that now.



Those are some things off the top of my head...maybe more to come.


das

[Mekarri]

It was a good episode and I love Todd as well. Knowing that SGA is ending just makes it hard for me enjoy the final episodes. There is so much crap on TV, so few options. Well at least I still have sanctuary.

[garhkal]

Ugh, I love Todd even more.

Sheppard has serious trust issues but I'm so happy he let Todd go. I was getting worried that he was going to do the same thing he did to Michael and betray his trust all over again.

True dat.. he does seem to me more eager to betray others before they even get a chance to betray him...

I thought CGI of the Hive ship crashing into to the planet was a massive improvemen

I will have to disagree here. I thought that cgi sucked... As in one shot they barely were off vertical, and in the next they were almost flat with..

The infected ship was nice touch, creepy

Whe Mccay first said about the hybernation pods i instinctively thought that the ship would get infected... just not that qickly.

I liked Todd's interaction with Sheppard, and his scene with Keller, I love it when they have little scenes like that, that go a little deeper into the characters, especially the Wraith. It was great to hear Todd do his awesome laugh again too.

She does seem to be calming down in his presence... And he was also getting a little ok around her unlike before..

Did anyone else notice that the chair room has a screen in it now?

The chair room on the Aurora that the travellers got had a window screen in it... maybe they never had it opened up before..

This is just like the Wraith retrovirus thing, it's always too good to be true and something has to go wrong.

I too knew there were going to be some major issues with it.. When is anything we have developed for others not had issues...

Picture is not an iratus bug...

True, but that bug from the ep Tea'lc changed, did look kind of similar.

Yay! I've been waiting for some follow-up on Todd after The Lost Tribe, and finally got it in spades with this episode. I really enjoyed his interactions with both Keller about the gene therapy and with Sheppard about taking over the Daedalus.

Me too.. We know the humans were going to be irked, but i did not see their ease at wanting to blow todd up comming.
I would have at least thought they were going to hear him out before deciding to blow him up.

But, for the most part, the rest would just be happy exterminating an entire species before finding a workable solution.

Tryue, shep especially seems very eager to embrace genocide..

2. Learning that Wraith and Hive exchange fluids during hibernation - confirms that there is a symbiotic relationship between the two.

very true, the confirmation of this happening was outstanding.. But i would like ot know what the wraith give TO the ship..

He redeemed himself here in my eyes, and I just hope nothing comes along to ruin that now.

Whie he did keep his word, i am not sure if i would go so far to say he redeamned himself..

[Ruffles]

I went into this knowing only what I'd seen in the previews from 2 weeks ago (most of which I'd forgotten). So this was a wild 42 minute ride for me. I was not home during the airings so I had to watch my DVR recording. *hugs DVR and inventor of DVR* I say that because as I was fastforwarding through the commercials, I couldn't believe so little time was left in the show. I was completely engrossed and had no idea what was coming next or how they were possibly going to get out of this one.

Good stuff:

* Todd - My love knows no bounds. He really does make everything better. His humor, his anger, his audacity to blame Sheppard and co when the virus he STOLE and used without proper medical supervision backfired

* TEAM!! - Oh, team, I've missed you so!

* Lorne - seriously, I love him too. Rarely do we see him interact with Sheppard (odd, no?) so it was great to watch them prowl through a hive together

* the hive ship - deserved its own dressing room for that performance - melting walls, malfunctions galore, giant holes, mysteriously appearing walls - a new level of creepy

* Woolsey - I couldn't love him more if I tried. Not much here, but what was there was excellent - his contemplation of just blowing the hive ship away, not backing down from having Sheppard and co check out the hive because the IOA would demand proof, risking his job to let Sheppard keep his word and let Todd go

* Sheppard and Todd - SO much love for any scene they have together but the shouting match when Todd jerks back his feeding hand and Sheppard doesn't flinch, doesn't bat an eye, doesn't move. Then Todd realizes he can't feed and tells Sheppard he owes him. Sheppard growls back he doesn't owe him anything. One of the best scenes ever and played brilliantly by JF and CH

* Sheppard - your dark side is showing again. I really do like how dark he can get. He really sold me on the idea that he wouldn't give killing Todd a second thought. They might have been brothers for a time, but that time is past. They are adversaries who are forced to work together on occasion. And NOTHING more. He stands in Todd's face when Todd is asking him to save his crew with the iratus bug and never mentions that the crew is already dead.

* Keller and Todd - their scenes together are always good, but Keller's defense of compassion and then explaining how Sheppard saves lives but uses different tools (and Todd's reaction to that statement) were simply superb

* Keller's confession of inadequacy - while it might be old news, what I liked about it is that she not only still feels that way but Rodney's reaction to it. He didn't laugh or tease or get a swelled ego (though he did say it helped to have one ). He reassured her. You go, Rodney! I love that you're able to see the insecurity in another and be compassionate. You've come a long way, baby.

* learning a bit more about the Wraith - I didn't know the Drones were controlled by the other Wraith. And how fascinating that an iratus bug feeding can somehow restore the health (and feeding maw?) of a Wraith. Super cool info on hive regeneration, safety protocols for pods, how hybernation works

Not so good:

* Teyla using a life signs detector. Canon? What's that?

* missing whump! Inertial dampeners cut out, slamming Sheppard into something hard enough to knock him out then leave him unconscious long enough that the hive is half-filled with water and I don't get to see it?!! *iz thankful for talented fanfic writers*

* the screamingly obvious red-shirt. Did anyone see that boy walking down the hall by himself and not immediately think "Dead man!"? I'm not saying kill off Lorne or one of the team, but no need to telegraph.

* Teyla's hair - is it just a girl thing or did any of you guys notice the strange little flip it was doing? It distracted me every time she was onscreen (which was a lot since thankfully she was actually in this ep and had a lot to do)

I really enjoyed this ep, and I'm looking forward to next week. *hugs Radek* Then our little break until January. *sniff*

Yeah....

I didn't start watching SGA regularly until season 4 when Carter/AT joined the show. I really enjoyed that season, so I've continued with season 5 while trying to catch up with the other seasons via reruns. Still haven't seen about half of season 2 and most of season 3, though I know what happened because of GW summaries.

Reading the transcript of Common Ground won't do it justice. You have to see Sheppard stare Todd in the face right before Todd slams his hand into Sheppard's chest and begins to feed to get the full impact of just how complicated their relationship is.

If it doesn't show already, Common Ground is my favorite SGA ep ever.

[Atlantis Atheist]

Is it just me, or when they did the "Previously on Stargate Atlantis..." intro and Sheppard says, "What happened to Cauldwell?"... did anyone think one of those tall, bald scary dudes would turn out to be a product of gene therapy and a captured Cauldwell? That would have been so cool...

[dasNdanger]

Whie he did keep his word, i am not sure if i would go so far to say he redeamned himself..

I should clarify myself - he redeemed himself in my eyes, for this episode. I was hating Sheppard so much during the first 3/4 of the show...and then, he made good. I HOPE they keep his relationship with Todd right here - no more 'looking for ways to kill you' crap. But I doubt they will. Still...in the end I had to respect Sheppard - he seemed 'excited' when Woolsey mentioned his proposal...as if he was eager to pay Todd back for saving their lives. He obviously had a change of heart somewhere along the line, and I wonder if it was Todd's super duper piloting skills that eventually won him over...ya know, one pilot admiring the skills of another, especially under such desperate conditions. Perhaps, too, Sheppard saw a little of himself in Todd there...as if seeing the individual, and not just the Wraith. Sheppard has, on more then one occasion, saved everyone's behind in a desperate situation using his skills as a pilot - he understood the effort Todd was making, the skill he was showing, and doing so while weak and terminally ill.

I loved Todd's concentration in this scene, too...how you just get the feeling that his mind was totally tied into the ship - perhaps visualizing what had to be done in order for it to actually take place...the depth of his concentration in such a weakened state, the sheer determination to control the ship...that just had to make a real impression on Sheppard. I know it made one on me.

das

[Atlantis Atheist]

* the screamingly obvious red-shirt. Did anyone see that boy walking down the hall by himself and not immediately think "Dead man!"? I'm not saying kill off Lorne or one of the team, but no need to telegraph.

I actually yelled out loud, "RED SHIRT! RED SHIRT!"

I don't want them to kill Lorne, either, but still... no need to blatantly telegraph which poor Vancouver actor is collecting unemployement next week.

[bluealien]

If only the ptb would use the "TEAM" forumula a bit more this season we would have had more great eps like this one and less crapfests like last week.

Overall a great episode. Kept me riveted from start to finish. The Todd/Sheppard scenes were fantastic but I didn't like how quickly they revert back to let's exterminate an entire species routine. Todd has put his trust in them so many times and shown willingness to try and help them. He is only looking out for his people who are trying to survive but yet they are willing to betray him at the drop of a hat.

I loved the confrontation between Sheppard and Todd and Todd telling Shep that he owed him, and Sheppard saying he didnt owe him anything... I think he's wrong.. Todd saved his life when he didn't have to... somehow I don't think Sheppard would have done the same and I don't expect him to consider Todd a friend but I do think he should have at least earned some respect from Shep... so I was glad to see Shep let Todd go in the end and I think there was a bit of respect for him there eventhough he tried to hide it.

This was probably the first bit of meaty dialogue that Sheppard had all season and I will never understand why the ptb don't give him more to do. I liked that everyone else got something to do and finally we had a good balance and good use of the characters. The writers though reiterate each week why Keller should never even be on the show. What is someone so young, naive and unsure of herself doing in such an important position. But not even Barbie doctor Keller could ruin my enjoyment of this episode.

It had everything that makes SGA great, action, team, Todd and some good meaty emotional and confrontational scenes.

9/10

[SerenaSerenity]

Ugh, I love Todd even more.

Sheppard has serious trust issues but I'm so happy he let Todd go. I was getting worried that he was going to do the same thing he did to Michael and betray his trust all over again.

Maybe, but Sheppard does have a reason for having trust issues with Todd in my own personal opinion. *nod nod* My own personal opinion of course.

It was pretty good. The infected ship was nice touch, creepy. Loved that it was a team episode. The only ding that I have is when did the writers just completely start tossing out ethics. At least in the first few seasons they went through the pretense of having moral compunctions over their actions -- in this episode the total lack of responsibility for the situation kind of didn't sit well. Thankfully Todd did get let through the 'gate at the end but wow, I'm not thinking he'll be lining up for more 'gene therapy'. That bridge is burned. When Todd took over the Daedalus, he didn't go on a killing spree. Don't worry though, I get that there wasn't much in the way of dealing with the loose cannibalistic Kull warriors. Yet, there really wasn't much effort in trying to keep any of Todd's crew alive, was there?

The infected ship gave me an almost Rose Red feel. *nods* And though Todd didn't go on a killing spree on the Daedalus, he obviously had the intent of killing everyone on it by ramming it into the planet. And well, it's not their fault at all. The information wasn't given to Todd, but infact he stole it. And used it without assistance from the person who created it. So, he was really the one who had done it to himself. So, if that bridge is burned, then Todd really did it himself and it wasn't SGA's fault. My own personal opinion of course. I have nothing against your opinion. To each their own. *nod nod*

I'm surprised that Todd actually used the treatment, especially one he stole from the Daedalus. I guess he really did want it.

I'm surprised that he figured Atlantis would be so willing to help after the stealing the Daedalus incident, or did he figure that they'd survive? Because I thought his intent was to let them all die when the Daedalus was supposed to crash into the Asgard base?

I am actually surprised that it worked, that the hitch was that it created a disease.

So they decided to trust Todd again, I wonder how that will turn out.

Vala,

I'm guessing he really wanted it too. And it wouldn't surprise me if he heard they had survived. Or maybe he was hoping against hope at that point. I mean, not everyone on Atlantis was aboard the Daedalus after all. Though I did like the disease thing. They changed how they ate humans. lol And I don't think they trust Todd persay, but more on the lines of they do need him. It's a kinda no choice thing on the trust. My own personal opinion of course. Nothing against your opinion. To each their own. *nod nod*

It is official. I have converted to Anti-Kellerism. I now find her annoying. Her holier-than-thou attitude is no better than McKay. I loved it when she told Todd that they whole no-feeding thing would better for all of us...that Todd laughed at her. How dare she think she knows what better for the Wraith? You can only save those whoe want to be saved. Todd is blaming Keller for their condition like Michael was blaming Beckett for his. I was like.....oh...no...we've got another Michael (Todd). I wish they would stop trying to save the Wraith if they don't want to be "saved."

I have to disagree with you there. I didn't think her attitude was in that manner. My own personal opinion of course.

* the hive ship - deserved its own dressing room for that performance - melting walls, malfunctions galore, giant holes, mysteriously appearing walls - a new level of creepy

* Woolsey - I couldn't love him more if I tried. Not much here, but what was there was excellent - his contemplation of just blowing the hive ship away, not backing down from having Sheppard and co check out the hive because the IOA would demand proof, risking his job to let Sheppard keep his word and let Todd go

* Sheppard and Todd - SO much love for any scene they have together but the shouting match when Todd jerks back his feeding hand and Sheppard doesn't flinch, doesn't bat an eye, doesn't move. Then Todd realizes he can't feed and tells Sheppard he owes him. Sheppard growls back he doesn't owe him anything. One of the best scenes ever and played brilliantly by JF and CH

* Sheppard - your dark side is showing again. I really do like how dark he can get. He really sold me on the idea that he wouldn't give killing Todd a second thought. They might have been brothers for a time, but that time is past. They are adversaries who are forced to work together on occasion. And NOTHING more. He stands in Todd's face when Todd is asking him to save his crew with the iratus bug and never mentions that the crew is already dead.

* Keller and Todd - their scenes together are always good, but Keller's defense of compassion and then explaining how Sheppard saves lives but uses different tools (and Todd's reaction to that statement) were simply superb

* Keller's confession of inadequacy - while it might be old news, what I liked about it is that she not only still feels that way but Rodney's reaction to it. He didn't laugh or tease or get a swelled ego (though he did say it helped to have one ). He reassured her. You go, Rodney! I love that you're able to see the insecurity in another and be compassionate. You've come a long way, baby.

* the screamingly obvious red-shirt. Did anyone see that boy walking down the hall by himself and not immediately think "Dead man!"? I'm not saying kill off Lorne or one of the team, but no need to telegraph.

Yep. *points to her Red Rose comment earlier*

Yeah, that scene of Sheppard with Todd I thought was fantastic. In that moment, for some unknown reasons, I forgot for a split second that Todd couldn't feed on human's anymore. That is, till I saw Sheppard just stare at him. And then it hit me as to why he didn't move or anything. lol I also did enjoy the Keller/Todd moment. And I really do think it gave Todd a whole knew look on Sheppard. After all, she was right in a sense. Yeah, he takes life, but it's to save many more lives in the process.

I have to agree with Sheppard being very dark here. But I don't really blame him after what happened on the Daedalus. *nod nod*

And while Keller's inadequecy is once more present, it just shows that she really does in a way care. I mean, if I had made something like that and it backfired the way it did, I'd be feeling pretty down too. *nod nod* And Rodney reassuring her was a nice touch. I think in a way they balance eachother out. Rodney has a massive ego and she tends to humble him a bit. While she on the other hand doesn't have an ego nearly as large and he helps her see that she can do the things that she thinks she can't do. Helps her feel confident.

And lastly, the screaming red shirt. Yes, I knew he was gonna die the moment I saw it too. I was waiting for it. LOL

----------------

Again, this is all my own personal opinion. Nothing against anyone else's opinion as I don't mind them. To each their own. *smiles*

[amconway]

I have to disagree with most of the folks commenting on this episode. To my mind, it had no character development, and virtually no plot. It was entirely 'we are on a bad ship-let's get off the bad ship'. We learned nothing new about any of the characters or anything else-other than that the formula didn't work, which takes us nowhere. The closest thing to real character interaction was when Rodney asked (twice! Good for you, Rodney, if somewhat out of character) if they really wanted to smother the humanized Wraith. They could have made something out of that, but they didn't (writers, not actors-the actors did the best they could with very little to do besides controlling the ship and shooting). I actually found it tremendously dull.

[JackHarkness_Hot]

I quite like this episode, we learn a lot about the organic side of the Wraith and how weak they've become. I noticed that Sheppard got a scratch during an encounter with one of those soldiers, could the disease affect him later? Like that which turned him into a semi-irratus (sp?) bug creature? Also, as the Hive ship was more or less dying, will the disease spread and affect any marine life on this planet? In essence, could the disease mutate from only affecting the wraith to affect all walks of life eventually? In real life, we got HIV which was originally contained in monkeys but spread into the human population, the H5N1 aka Bird Flu could mutate and affect humans sometime down the line.

[dasNdanger]

I have to disagree with most of the folks commenting on this episode. To my mind, it had no character development, and virtually no plot. It was entirely 'we are on a bad ship-let's get off the bad ship'. We learned nothing new about any of the characters or anything else-other than that the formula didn't work, which takes us nowhere. The closest thing to real character interaction was when Rodney asked (twice! Good for you, Rodney, if somewhat out of character) if they really wanted to smother the humanized Wraith. They could have made something out of that, but they didn't (writers, not actors-the actors did the best they could with very little to do besides controlling the ship and shooting). I actually found it tremendously dull.

Obviously, we were not watching the same show.

There was a big 'character developement' in Sheppard, and Todd's perception of Sheppard, and visa versa. It starts with Keller's discussion with Todd about compassion, and ends with Sheppard compassionately releasing Todd - even if it's just to fend for himself, he at least gave him a chance (something they did not do the first time they had Todd in captivity, and certainly did not do with Steve).

We learn that - unlike Carson - Keller has the ability to empathize with an alien race. She wants to help them, and doesn't see them as merely an evil threat. Carson was much different in this regard, even to the point of once referring to the Wraith as 'unnatural'. He was very prejudiced against them, while Keller has shown a very compassionate side, hoping the gene therapy would have worked to the benefit of human AND Wraith alike.

We learn that Ronon has absolutely no compassion in regards to the Wraith, instead he is still filled with spite, hatred and a taste for revenge.

We learned that Woolsey, too, has the ability to show compassion...he took chances with Todd, first to please the higher-ups, and then simply to give Todd a chance at possibly surviving this disease.

We actually see someone put McKay in his place! What no one else has been able to do, TODD has done: "Instead of criticizing, perhaps you could work on getting me some MORE POWER!" I've never seen Rodney shut up, and jumpt to it so fast!

We also learned a LOT in this episode:

Wraith have a symbiotic relationship with their ship, even exchanging fluids during hibernation.

Hundreds of thousands of years ago, the Wraith didn't have their healing ability, so they used iratus queens to heal themselves in dire situations, although such a desperate treatment often ended in death.

We saw Todd learn a new word - 'bug'!

We learned that Todd is one hellava pilot...on par with Sheppard. Perhaps, even better than Sheppard.

We learned that Wraith drone soldiers must be controlled by the advanced, faced Wraith, or they will just act upon pure instinct.

We saw that the Lanteans rescued Todd from the sinking hive - this is important, since in the past they would have just let a Wraith die with his ship.

We learned that Todd finds human behavior amusing.




This episode had a lot in it, much of which I still need to digest. Perhaps you should watch it again.




das