"Identity" (518) Pre-Airing Discussion/Speculation Thread

[Pandora's_Box]

Indentity and the back half of season 5 seem to be a Keller and possibley a McKeller marathon and neither of them appeal to me in any way. I'm still clinging to some hope that it won't be as bad as I imagine and we will get some good team moments in between all the McKeller cringeworthy moments. I have never felt as disallusioned with the show as I do now as it's the team I tune in for. I had no problem with Keller in season four (eventhough she never impressed me) but I could handle her in small doses and being a doctor, but not this over indulgence of one character whom I have no interest in at all. McKay I find enjoyable with the team but on his own or romancing Keller just leaves me cold.

I'm not going to list a whole load of things about why I don't like Keller, it's mainly because she is so totally unconvincing as a CMO and nothing about her so far as endeared me to anything she does...

And this is exactly what I was talking about. Excuse me for sayin', but this seems to be an overreaction to the information we've been getting on the episodes.

Keller is now part of the regular cast and as such will have a more eminent role in the series. It stands to reason that she'll get at least one Keller-centric episode this season. All the characters get at least one episode that revolves mostly around the one person. "Identity" seems to be that one for Keller.

Some would argue "The Seed" as well, but I counter that that was hardly focused on Keller and more the team as they tried to save her and Atlantis, and quite a bit on Woolsey being introduced as bas commander.

Then I guess we also have "Tracker", but that seems to be as much Ronon and McKay if not more.

So I don't see where all this, "overindulgence of one character" is happening because it certainly doesn't seem to be on the show.

She's a main character now which means more screen time. If you don't like her and any screen time is too much screen time then that's different from this becoming The Keller Show.

I can't stand Ronon, but I'm not claiming that him having "Broken Ties" is TPTB obsessing over his character. Even though Mallozzi has claimed to love to write for that character.

It's normal for regular characters to be more involved in story lines.

People seem to forget that Beckett complained constantly and is probably a much bigger whiner than Keller. Why is Beckett's complaining acceptable while Keller's is not?

Because it's different when you like a character. Then you'll take all kinds of things from them. If you don't like the character, then that same action is all kinds of horrendous and unbearable.

[CazzBlade]

Keller is now part of the regular cast and as such will have a more eminent role in the series. It stands to reason that she'll get at least one Keller-centric episode this season. All the characters get at least one episode that revolves mostly around the one person. "Identity" seems to be that one for Keller.

Some would argue "The Seed" as well, but I counter that that was hardly focused on Keller and more the team as they tried to save her and Atlantis, and quite a bit on Woolsey being introduced as bas commander.

Then I guess we also have "Tracker", but that seems to be as much Ronon and McKay if not more.

So I don't see where all this, "overindulgence of one character" is happening because it certainly doesn't seem to be on the show.

There's also Brain Storm and Infection

[Skydiver]

Guys

While i know that Keller is in this episode, and I know that you have feelings about her presence in the episode, how about a bit more discussion about the episode itself and a bit less about one singular aspect - namely Keller..

Surely there's more to it than just her contribution

[bluealien]

And this is exactly what I was talking about. Excuse me for sayin', but this seems to be an overreaction to the information we've been getting on the episodes.

Keller is now part of the regular cast and as such will have a more eminent role in the series. It stands to reason that she'll get at least one Keller-centric episode this season. All the characters get at least one episode that revolves mostly around the one person. "Identity" seems to be that one for Keller.

Some would argue "The Seed" as well, but I counter that that was hardly focused on Keller and more the team as they tried to save her and Atlantis, and quite a bit on Woolsey being introduced as bas commander.

Then I guess we also have "Tracker", but that seems to be as much Ronon and McKay if not more.

So I don't see where all this, "overindulgence of one character" is happening because it certainly doesn't seem to be on the show.

She's a main character now which means more screen time. If you don't like her and any screen time is too much screen time then that's different from this becoming The Keller Show.

I can't stand Ronon, but I'm not claiming that him having "Broken Ties" is TPTB obsessing over his character. Even though Mallozzi has claimed to love to write for that character.

It's normal for regular characters to be more involved in story lines.



Because it's different when you like a character. Then you'll take all kinds of things from them. If you don't like the character, then that same action is all kinds of horrendous and unbearable.

Well of course you'll enjoy the show more if you enjoy the characters and thats what is boils down to. But I don't expect to love all the characters or moan constantly when a character I don't like get a lot of attention. Most of the time McKay drives me nuts but I like him in the context of the team and the dynamic he brings to the show and the team... I accept that he is good in the part he plays and is a very convincing snarky genius who rubs up a lot of people the wrong way.. but behind all his snark he has a good heart... so the bad is balanced out by the good... but Keller is not even convincing in the role she has been cast... she has not once instilled in me any confidence or believability that she is a CMO, in fact not even a doctor. Janet from SG1 was totally credible in her portrayal of a doctor and this is what I expected from Keller.

I'm not interesed in Kellers personal issues or her antics outside her field of medicine .. and so far I find her a boring and extremely lacklustre character so therefore I have no desire to see lots of her. IMO she should have been left a supporting character, I see no need to add her to the main cast but I have no choice but to accept that she is main character now, but that doesn't mean I want to see her showcased in practically 5 episodes in a row when the other MAIN characters are still woefully underdeveloped... including the lead of the show.
If I found her a tad more interesting (like Woolsy and he has only just come to the show) then I wouldnt be as upset about the ptb giving so much focus to her.

I also have zero interest in seeing a romantic relationship between her and Rodney and Ronon.... the ptb have messed around in the past constantly with regards to shipping and pretty much said that shipping main characters is a big no no.. but now that's all changed.. why? to make her more popular ... JM admits they are giving her more attention because she is so far NOT a well received character... this kind of thinking just boggles the mind.... they give more screentime to a character that's not all that well received and ignore the ones that are.

I really am hoping it's just a load of hype and it won't be near as bad as the spoilers make it out to be (and I can cope with her being used in a similar way as she as used in the Seed) But if not then it will leave me with not a great to enjoy in the second half of the season..because the focus seems to be constantly on a character that doesnt interest me at all and a relationship that doesnt interest me at all... but that's just my opinion..

[Pandora's_Box]

There's also Brain Storm and Infection

I'm not interesed in Kellers personal issues or her antics outside her field of medicine .. and so far I find her a boring and extremely lacklustre character so therefore I have no desire to see lots of her. IMO she should have been left a supporting character, I see no need to add her to the main cast but I have no choice but to accept that she is main character now, but that doesn't mean I want to see her showcased in practically 5 episodes in a row when the other MAIN characters are still woefully underdeveloped... including the lead of the show.
If I found her a tad more interesting (like Woolsy and he has only just come to the show) then I wouldnt be as upset about the ptb giving so much focus to her.

All we've heard about "Brain Storm" is that she's at a function with McKay.

As for "Infection", we've head of what will most likely be the B or C plot with Keller learning more about Wraith physiology.

That's hardly "showcasing" the character.

Look, I get it. Some people don't like her. Obviously taste differs from person to person. That's expected and that's fine.

I'm not saying everyone should like her. All I'm asking is that people look at this reasonably and as objectively as possible. We haven't seen these episodes yet. All we've heard about them is what the MGM promo monkeys want us to hear. And what they want us to hear is always what's going to be creating the most amount of discussion amongst fans and forums such as this one.

So I think some people need to just calm down and realize that these are not scripts we're being privy to. We don't know how these episodes will play out. I don't know how they'll play out. They could focus heavily on Keller. Odds are they won't. TPTB aren't so stupid as to focus a team-centric show on one character.

Skydiver, I did see your post and I just wanted to finish off responding to that discussion.

In light of Infection, how do people feel about the new particulars about "the seduction of Rodney McKay"? Is is a case of the writers falling back on the old sci-fi standby of the-sexually-uninhibited-alien-female? Is it maybe overdone?

[CazzBlade]

In light of Infection, how do people feel about the new particulars about "the seduction of Rodney McKay"? Is is a case of the writers falling back on the old sci-fi standby of the-sexually-uninhibited-alien-female? Is it maybe overdone?

No, I don't think its been overdone, especially not in Atlantis I'd be perfectly fine with it if there wasn't McKeller in other episodes. I think Rodney's reaction would be hilarious if it were Teyla coming on to him, someone he would never expect to and doesn't have feelings for himself. But because it's Keller, I'll just be left feeling uncomfortable and cringing. Same if it was Keller with someone else, their reaction would be priceless, but its not its Rodney.

[ykickamoocow]

No, I don't think its been overdone, especially not in Atlantis I'd be perfectly fine with it if there wasn't McKeller in other episodes. I think Rodney's reaction would be hilarious if it were Teyla coming on to him, someone he would never expect to and doesn't have feelings for himself. But because it's Keller, I'll just be left feeling uncomfortable and cringing. Same if it was Keller with someone else, their reaction would be priceless, but its not its Rodney.

Teyla (or atleast Teyla's body) trying to seducing McKay would be hilarious

[Pandora's_Box]

No, I don't think its been overdone, especially not in Atlantis I'd be perfectly fine with it if there wasn't McKeller in other episodes. I think Rodney's reaction would be hilarious if it were Teyla coming on to him, someone he would never expect to and doesn't have feelings for himself. But because it's Keller, I'll just be left feeling uncomfortable and cringing. Same if it was Keller with someone else, their reaction would be priceless, but its not its Rodney.

I think McKay in that sort of situation will be hilarious regardless of who's doing the seducing. Uncomfortable McKay always translates into a priceless scene.

That said, you don't see this concept as overdone? I don't mean on SGA, but in general. Although we have had alien consciousnesses take over people's bodies before in The Long Goodbye, this seems likes it's going to be played out differently as it's more an exchange of consciousnesses than a takeover.

I'm mostly referring the sexual seduction part. To be honest, as much as I love McKeller (quite obviously), even I cringed when I'd heard that there'd be such a scene in Identity.

Apparently the easiest way for an alien entity to bend a human male to her will is through sexual overtures. I've seen this on too many shows to count and read it in too many books, all of them sci-fi, that I tend to roll my eyes and cringe at the hint of it happening yet again.

I'd just hoped that we could get through one of these plot concepts without that particular theme. Although it's more of a commentary on the male mind then anything else and maybe I just need to accept that males think with the lower brain a lot of the time and be done with it.

Let the writers live vicariously through their characters or something and just move on.

[Linzi]

All we've heard about "Brain Storm" is that she's at a function with McKay.

As for "Infection", we've head of what will most likely be the B or C plot with Keller learning more about Wraith physiology.

That's hardly "showcasing" the character.

Look, I get it. Some people don't like her. Obviously taste differs from person to person. That's expected and that's fine.

I'm not saying everyone should like her. All I'm asking is that people look at this reasonably and as objectively as possible. We haven't seen these episodes yet. All we've heard about them is what the MGM promo monkeys want us to hear. And what they want us to hear is always what's going to be creating the most amount of discussion amongst fans and forums such as this one.

So I think some people need to just calm down and realize that these are not scripts we're being privy to. We don't know how these episodes will play out. I don't know how they'll play out. They could focus heavily on Keller. Odds are they won't. TPTB aren't so stupid as to focus a team-centric show on one character.

Skydiver, I did see your post and I just wanted to finish off responding to that discussion.

In light of Infection, how do people feel about the new particulars about "the seduction of Rodney McKay"? Is is a case of the writers falling back on the old sci-fi standby of the-sexually-uninhibited-alien-female? Is it maybe overdone?

I just want to say, I don't dislike Keller, and I've enjoyed her more in season 5. However, it IS the spoilers for this episode which have upset me. The seduction thing honestly makes me want to throw up. It's clichéd, and something the writers do when they're usually trying to 'ship' a couple. It's clumsy, boring and really not what I want to see and it's as subtle as a brick through the window - and I don't care which pairing it's for. Now, if it's played for comedy it could work, I suppose. And it'd be much more entertaining if it were Teyla doing the seducing, or Teyla's body, should I say, since it'll be Keller's body with the clichéd alien in her head I have to say, it's pretty rare for me to really get irritated by spoilers. I'm normally a glass half full kind of girl, but this has REALLY got to me. Teyla however, could have McKay on the floor with one move! And poor McKay would be helpless! But when it's a character we know another character has feelings for, it really alters that dynamic. Take, for example Jack and Sam in The Broca Divide. Now I didn't have a problem with that situation per se, but it is rather old, I think, and I groaned back then, however many years ago it was I saw that eppie first time round! 12? 13? .

On a sidenote, and I hope this isn't OT, Sky, if TPTB are doing the whole McKeller thing, and let's be honest, we're reading it just about in every interview with Jewel and interviews with TPTB recently, then I think they're making a massive mistake. If they want to further the romance, doing it in this clichéd way is just so immature. But, as I've said before, I have a real issue with any doctor having romantic designs on a patient. Quite simply, ethically it's NOT allowed, and if you romance a patient, as a doctor you could be accused of professional misconduct and struck off. So, I'd rather they didn't do this, to be honest. Of course if Keller no longer treats McKay and he has another doctor, then there's no problem in that respect

But, that's a side issue to this seduction idea. I don't like it, I don't think it's a good idea, and seriously, how old are these writers?

Also, I have to say, I do object to a character I feel is already weak being taken over twice in one season. It doesn't sit right with me. I'd complain just as much is Teyla had been taken over in the Seed and then again in this episode, and I really liked the Seed and liked Keller in it. I have no issues with her portrayal, writing or anything to do with her in that episode. It's just the spoilers for this, Brain Storm and Identity all put together which worry me, but mostly this episode

Teyla (or atleast Teyla's body) trying to seducing McKay would be hilarious

Agreed. I'm laughing thinking about it.

No, I don't think its been overdone, especially not in Atlantis I'd be perfectly fine with it if there wasn't McKeller in other episodes. I think Rodney's reaction would be hilarious if it were Teyla coming on to him, someone he would never expect to and doesn't have feelings for himself. But because it's Keller, I'll just be left feeling uncomfortable and cringing. Same if it was Keller with someone else, their reaction would be priceless, but its not its Rodney.

I'm not in you're head with this one Cazz! I do think it's been overdone. It's been done to death, IMO, and I wouldn't want to see it for any pairing where TPTB were 'romancing' them. As I said, play it for comedy, fine, it could be a novel approach and entertaining. Do it for characters we know have an attraction and feelings for, and then I do start to feel ill!

I hope this isn't OT? But if this were Shep and Teyla, who I know you're quite fond of, would you be ok with it? Or say, Shep and say, Larrin, or Carter, if she were around? For me, unless it was played humorously and for a couple who had no romantic designs or perceived designs it would never work for me.

I do think this idea is just immature, and that's honestly the first time I've ever said that about a storyline on SGA.

[ykickamoocow]

I hope this isn't OT? But if this were Shep and Teyla, who I know you're quite fond of, would you be ok with it? Or say, Shep and say, Larrin, or Carter, if she were around? For me, unless it was played humorously and for a couple who had no romantic designs or perceived designs it would never work for me.

I personally dont think anyone should ever seduce Sheppard as it is just weird. I always thought that the scene in "The Tower" (the scene where that woman disrobes infront of Sheppard) would have been a million times better with McKay instead. McKay's reaction would have been hilarious and it would have been a much better scene than the one we actually got which came across (atleast to me) as kind of weird.

[Linzi]

I personally dont think anyone should ever seduce Sheppard as it is just weird. I always thought that the scene in "The Tower" (the scene where that woman disrobes infront of Sheppard) would have been a million times better with McKay instead. McKay's reaction would have been hilarious and it would have been a much better scene than the one we actually got which came across (atleast to me) as kind of weird.

I thought the Tower scene was a tad weird. I'd have much preferred it to be played more for comedy, yes. I'd have loved to see Shep tripping over and then seen her chuck Mara out of his room, personally.

I have to say, I don't think the idea of someone trying to seduce Sheppard is weird though. Do I want to see it ? Um, unless it's for comedy, HELL NO!

My only hope is that the seduction thing in this eppie is brief, comedic and something I can forget ever happened! However the whole alien in the head thing IS getting old now. Surely the writers could have come up with something more fresh?

[Pandora's_Box]

I thought the Tower scene was a tad weird. I'd have much preferred it to be played more for comedy, yes. I'd have loved to see Shep tripping over and then seen her chuck Mara out of his room, personally.

I have to say, I don't think the idea of someone trying to seduce Sheppard is weird though. Do I want to see it ? Um, unless it's for comedy, HELL NO!

My only hope is that the seduction thing in this eppie is brief, comedic and something I can forget ever happened! However the whole alien in the head thing IS getting old now. Surely the writers could have come up with something more fresh?

Because we're talking about McKay, I don't think the writers can plausibly play it out any other way than for comedic value.

I see McKay more as looking around with a, "Who me?" look on his face at her first advances, then being all stuttering and uncomfortable-like, realizing that something was wrong, and resisting. He's not a complete cad, McKay. I don't see him taking advantage of this in any way.

At which point Neeva/Keller will probably knock him out or something.

And it's finally hit me. What this reminds me of. The "Our Mrs. Reynolds" episode of Firefly. Saffron can't seduce Wash so she knocks him out and gets what she wants anyway.

Yep. This is very original writers. Very.

Granted, not much in sci-fi is very original anymore anyway.

[Reiko]

People seem to forget that Beckett complained constantly and is probably a much bigger whiner than Keller. Why is Beckett's complaining acceptable while Keller's is not?

» It's the way they 'whine'. And also what you really love the character for.

» It's been stated elsewhere several times, so I won't say it again.

[Heaven]

Sheppard is a whiner too

I swear every time he yells "Rodney do something!" I feel like punching the guy in the face.

[CazzBlade]

I'm not in you're head with this one Cazz! I do think it's been overdone. It's been done to death, IMO, and I wouldn't want to see it for any pairing where TPTB were 'romancing' them. As I said, play it for comedy, fine, it could be a novel approach and entertaining. Do it for characters we know have an attraction and feelings for, and then I do start to feel ill!

I hope this isn't OT? But if this were Shep and Teyla, who I know you're quite fond of, would you be ok with it? Or say, Shep and say, Larrin, or Carter, if she were around? For me, unless it was played humorously and for a couple who had no romantic designs or perceived designs it would never work for me.

I do think this idea is just immature, and that's honestly the first time I've ever said that about a storyline on SGA.

No I wouldn't like it if it was JT. You said what I was trying to say but did it much better My problem with is that these two are being shipped, if they weren't and it was played for laughs then it would be alright

I don't think its been done that much in Atlantis, I can only think of The Tower and Travellers when someone (well Shep ) has been seduced and although I didn't like these scenes, I don't think that is overuse. I don't really watch much sci-fi other than Atlantis so it might just be that I haven't seen the shows where one of the characters has been taken over by an alien entity

I definately don't want this to happen, I would only be okay with it if it were comedic which by the sounds of it, its not