Very disappointed with Daniel and Rodney's lack of morality

[dasNdanger]

Value to us? We do, no one else can.



There's nothing immoral about wanting to live. It's got nothing to do with a God complex, it's about being forced to choose between your species and another. The Humans of the Pegasus galaxy have got as much right to kill Wraith in order to continue their own existence as the Wraith do to feed on Humans to carry on theirs. In the absence of another option, it's a simple matter of us or them, and it's only reasonable that we'd choose 'us'.

There is a diff between killing some, and killing ALL. McKay and Daniel showed no concern whatsoever at the thought of killing ALL Wraith, even the ones who are, as far as we know, attempting to find an alternative food source.

Also, the argument of that 'we' determine who has the right to live or die is what gets us into wars...and worse, genocides. Right here on earth - human wiping out human in the name of 'self'. Just because we decide who lives and who dies doesn't make it right.

I am very, VERY disturbed by the mindset of Daniel and Rodney - and even more so by that of the writer (yes, you Marty), and TPTB.

das

[Bytor]

And before you start with the 'but the Wraith eat people', just remember that the Wraith never want the extinction of the human race...instead, they want and need to coexist with humans.

and I don't want the extinction of Microwave dinners

And before you start with the 'but the Wraith eat people', just remember that the Wraith never want the extinction of the human race...instead, they want and need to coexist with humans.

And I want to COEXIST with chicken

[jenks]

There is a diff between killing some, and killing ALL. McKay and Daniel showed no concern whatsoever at the thought of killing ALL Wraith, even the ones who are, as far as we know, attempting to find an alternative food source.

Since the expedition has been looking for a 'cure', more Humans have been killed by the Wraith than there are Wraith. If you truly think that both sets of lives are worth the same, then the genocide of the Wraith should be a good option, as it saved many more lives overall. Even if Keller gets the retrovirus to work now, they'd still be saving more lives if they wiped the Wraith out.

Also, the argument of that 'we' determine who has the right to live or die is what gets us into wars...and worse, genocides. Right here on earth - human wiping out human in the name of 'self'. Just because we decide who lives and who dies doesn't make it right.

You're twisting my words. I never said we decide who lives and dies therefore that makes it OK, I said that we decide who's lives are more valuable to us, as do the Wraith, it couldn't be any other way. Naturally we chose our own species over another, especially one that's life depends on ending ours. I'd go as far as to say that as a Human, allowing a Wraith to live is immoral, because by doing so you're effectively ending the lives of many more Humans.

[Infinite-Possibilities]

I don't see why this is an big deal personally. It's not like it was an instantly kill all Wraith in the galaxy device. If they were threatened with being executed one by one, I would say that crippling Wraith hyperdrives in the galaxy for what I imagined they hope is temporarily would be the expected course of action.

[akren]

Whilst I agree there are morale ramifications with using the device (which I will not get into here), I don't see how this would stop the Wraith perminantly - they can hybernate & travel at near-light speeds or @ slwoer than light speed over many yeras & just cull a world the old fashioned way : hyperdrive is just more convient & offers more tactical advantages when your enemies also use hyper-space capable vessels.

[haloplayer]

Since the expedition has been looking for a 'cure', more Humans have been killed by the Wraith than there are Wraith. If you truly think that both sets of lives are worth the same, then the genocide of the Wraith should be a good option, as it saved many more lives overall. Even if Keller gets the retrovirus to work now, they'd still be saving more lives if they wiped the Wraith out.



You're twisting my words. I never said we decide who lives and dies therefore that makes it OK, I said that we decide who's lives are more valuable to us, as do the Wraith, it couldn't be any other way. Naturally we chose our own species over another, especially one that's life depends on ending ours. I'd go as far as to say that as a Human, allowing a Wraith to live is immoral, because by doing so you're effectively ending the lives of many more Humans.

So true, by letting Wraith live its causing the death of more humans, and im sure all the humans in the SGA would pick there own kind over the wraith. Either kill or be killed.

It all comes down to this.

Wraith Kill Humans to survive, so humans kill wraith to survive. Simple as that.

[Korumera]

Hmmm well I can see and understand your point of view but the wraith how cool they are or not are just a bunch of killing machines if you ask me. And if they had the change they would kill and feed upon the entire pegasus galaxy.

The fact that keller is creating a cure for them doesnt mean there desire to kill and conquer goes away. So in their defense it's killl or be killed. We'll have to see and wait wat the writers plan is with this story line but i doubt all will be killed.

[Colonel_Ez]

I would have to say you dont get morality considerations when you EAT PEOPLE!!!

Sheash, you know TPTB have screwed up on the bad guys when people care about them being killed off...

[Franklyn Blaze]

Hah ya, I don't recall seeing any cylon fanboys signatures.

[NoobTau'ri]

And before you start with the 'but the Wraith eat people', just remember that the Wraith never want the extinction of the human race...instead, they want and need to coexist with humans.
das

The only reason why they don't want to genocide Humans is because they would be genociding themselves if they did. That's it. They are not being altruistic here. You have no way of knowing what the Wraith would do if they didn't need Humans. Maybe they would genocide the Humans with even less remorse than the Humans would genocide the Wraith.

[Lahela]

But what possible reason would the wraith have to wipe out humans, if they didn't feed on them? Do they wipe out other species on a whim?

I think the point is that, through Michael and Carson's research and Keller's application of it, they are/were about to change the whole wraith/human situation. Sure, they weren't suddenly going to convert every wraith in the galaxy, but perhaps in time other delivery methods could be used (like they were considering for the retrovirus) and they could have removed the need to feed altogether. But despite that possibility, the unilateral decision was made by Rodney, Daniel and the aliens to escalate the war. While the aliens were probably ignorant of the human's plans, certainly Rodney and Daniel knew what was going on and could have at least tried to negotiate, both for their own lives and to give the experiment a chance to work.

And given that humans feed on other species, I don't think we can take any moral highground here.

[Vis Uban]

The Wraith wouldn't necessarily be destroyed by the Atero device; it only prevents them from using their hyperdrives. True, those marooned between stars would die eventually, but there are bound to be a good percentage of hives in orbit of planets throughout the Pegasus Galaxy. From there, they could use Stargates to move from planet to planet, without their ships of course. As for the "wrongness" of creating such a device; seriously, come on, the Wraith were trying to wipe out the Ancients and enslave the galaxy. They did enslave the galaxy. The device, on the other hand, has the potential to bring the Wraith to the bargoning table.

On a side note, strategically speaking, the Atero device, had it worked, would have actually been quite a brilliant strategy. With no risk to the Ancients, the device would have crippled the entire Wraith fleet, ending the war either by forcing a surrender or by Wraith mass suicide should they refuse to surrender. Ironically, even had they chosen to die rather than surrender, the race would more than likely have continued because of the Wraith hives in sublight range of planets. However, the Wraith would be reduced to such comparatively few numbers, with minimal military strength, that they wouldn't have posed a threat anymore. That's of course had the device worked as advertised...

[Laura Dove]

There's nothing immoral about wanting to live. It's got nothing to do with a God complex, it's about being forced to choose between your species and another. The Humans of the Pegasus galaxy have got as much right to kill Wraith in order to continue their own existence as the Wraith do to feed on Humans to carry on theirs. In the absence of another option, it's a simple matter of us or them, and it's only reasonable that we'd choose 'us'.

Wraith Kill Humans to survive, so humans kill wraith to survive. Simple as that.

Then stop claiming humans are "good guys" and "better", more "moral" than wraith, when they just make the same thing: Ensuring their own survival at the expense of any other. Doing what you condemn other for is not being a "good guy", it's being a hypocrite.

You're twisting my words. I never said we decide who lives and dies therefore that makes it OK, I said that we decide who's lives are more valuable to us, as do the Wraith, it couldn't be any other way. Naturally we chose our own species over another, especially one that's life depends on ending ours. I'd go as far as to say that as a Human, allowing a Wraith to live is immoral, because by doing so you're effectively ending the lives of many more Humans.

And by allowing humans to live without control, you allow for overpopulation and the disruption of ecosystem balance, leading to mass-extinctions of many species. So, as when you're a human, you're also a mammal, an animal and a live being, letting humans procreate without control is immoral.

Hmmm well I can see and understand your point of view but the wraith how cool they are or not are just a bunch of killing machines if you ask me. And if they had the change they would kill and feed upon the entire pegasus galaxy.

Have you been watching the show? I suggest you watch "Instinct", "Allies" (the scene with Michael) and "Common Ground", and come back and dare tell again that wraith are "just a bunch of killing machines".

The fact that keller is creating a cure for them doesnt mean there desire to kill and conquer goes away. So in their defense it's killl or be killed. We'll have to see and wait wat the writers plan is with this story line but i doubt all will be killed.

Their desire to kill and conquer is no more developed than among humans. I'd even say that it's less, as they haven't exterminated themselves in 10,000 years, while humans are all doing it on Earth in much less time.

I would have to say you dont get morality considerations when you EAT PEOPLE!!!
Sheash, you know TPTB have screwed up on the bad guys when people care about them being killed off...

Okaaaaay, so for you, cannibal tribes, here, on our real-life Earth, are not people and should be wiped out? Those people whose plane crashed into a mountain should have been shot down?

Perhaps you should learn that you are not "bad guys" or "good guys" just because some people put a sticker on your forehead, but because of your actions.

The Wraith wouldn't necessarily be destroyed by the Atero device; it only prevents them from using their hyperdrives.

Only if they are aware of the danger, because if they are not, yes, they are destroyed.

As for the "wrongness" of creating such a device; seriously, come on, the Wraith were trying to wipe out the Ancients and enslave the galaxy. They did enslave the galaxy.

That, or the wraith were merely defending themselves from the Ancients, who probably didn't want their human experiments to be disturbed.

[Myles]

Then stop claiming humans are "good guys" and "better", more "moral" than wraith, when they just make the same thing: Ensuring their own survival at the expense of any other. Doing what you condemn other for is not being a "good guy", it's being a hypocrite.

'Good Guys' and 'moral high ground' are completely subjective terms. Both sides on a war consider the other side 'bad guys' and their side 'good guys'. What's moral to one culture is immoral to another, however, from a human point of view, the Expedition is good and moral(for the most part). From a Wraith perspective, they're the bad guys and committing genocide. It all depends on which side you look at it from.

And by allowing humans to live without control, you allow for overpopulation and the disruption of ecosystem balance, leading to mass-extinctions of many species. So, as when you're a human, you're also a mammal, an animal and a live being, letting humans procreate without control is immoral.

In the greater scheme of things, a population getting out of control is natural. Once it does, it can no longer sustain itself and falls back to a more manageable level. During the process, things are disrupted, but everything is forced back into equilibrium eventually.

Have you been watching the show? I suggest you watch "Instinct", "Allies" (the scene with Michael) and "Common Ground", and come back and dare tell again that wraith are "just a bunch of killing machines".

The Wraith obviously have a culture and are not mindless killing machines, but when it comes to us VS them, then there's little you can do but fight and beat them. And who's to say what would happen if all the Wraith could live without feeding. As Todd put it so well in 'First Contact', the lifestyle of feeding on humans is all the Wraith know. What would they be without it?

Okaaaaay, so for you, cannibal tribes, here, on our real-life Earth, are not people and should be wiped out? Those people whose plane crashed into a mountain should have been shot down?

Perhaps you should learn that you are not "bad guys" or "good guys" just because some people put a sticker on your forehead, but because of your actions.

How your actions appear depends on the observer and the circumstances. In a black and white world all things could be called good/evil. However, the circumstances surrounding such actions can greatly change whether something can be considered moral or not.

Only if they are aware of the danger, because if they are not, yes, they are destroyed.

I'm sure once a few hives explode that the word will get around to stay out of hyperspace.

That, or the wraith were merely defending themselves from the Ancients, who probably didn't want their human experiments to be disturbed.

It's been clearly stated the Ancients tried to negotiate with the Wraith and never saw those people again. I presume they were mighty tasty.

[pcat]

The volume of Liberal "Stuff" is amazing. Morality??? Are you Serious. It's like arguing appeasing the wraith is the best solution. You may as well have a lottery to sacrifice people the the wraith for feeding and call this the moral solution (recognizes there right to feed). Do you argue the moral consequences of Chemo to a cancer patient (hey cancer is a living organism right?, it has equal rights to live).

On top of that, I contend that the device would have little impact on the wraith in the long run and would decimate specific huma populations. Wraith would be stranded where ever they are currently feeding. That population would be fed upon to extinction. I have no doubt that given time the Wraith would counter the device. It is obvious that other types or variations of Hyper-drives can be developed. There is also no reason that they could not scavenge Ancient/Asgard thechnolgy and Hyperdrives for there own use. Plus, If not for the "minor side effects" the can continue to harvest food through the gates.

I am sick of people harping on people who want to win. Wraith are the clear enemy. They do not want to change. If you go to war, you destroy the enemy and there capability to pose a future threat.

As for Todd considereing the drug treatment, you may have noticed that he was considering for expendatble (short life) assets. This would leave more for for other more deserving wraith, such as himself. He is interested in managing his food supply and survival, nothing else, as has been shown consistenly.