They should have used the Attero device to win the war.

[jenks]

They weren't incompetent, they were just stupid (and coward). They had the tools to beat the Wraith, but decided not to, leaving billions of human beings behind (their creation) to be eaten by the Wraith. Masters of morality indeed :-\

You're going around in a circle. They're not stupid, they made their decision based on moral grounds, morality is relative, and like I've said you can't apply our morals to a group of aliens. For them maybe killing is a worse crime than allowing people to be killed, we'd probably disagree, but neither of us would be right because in the grand scheme of things there is no such thing a good and evil/right and wrong, it's just an abstract construct.

[Giantevilhead]

Couldn't they just turn the Attero device on a few seconds at a time and shut it down before the gates start to overload?

[Jeffala]

Couldn't they just turn the Attero device on a few seconds at a time and shut it down before the gates start to overload?

But the length of time that the device is operational isn't the problem. Any (anywhere from 1 second to 1,000 years) time that the device is operational and someone dials a gate, that gate will explode.

And I doubt that there would be accurate enough intelligence to activate the device just as Wraith ships were about to jump to hyperspace and then shut it down.



What I'm wondering is if the gate that Atlantis dialed exploded as well. If the side-effect destroys any active gate, then at least two exploded. I hope the target gate wasn't near a population center. :-/

[ussrelativity]

I have to admit, they didn't use ark, didn't use grail, so honestly I doubt, they would have used attero device. They deserved to die for their arrogance and incompetence.

I agree 100%. I believe the Atlanteans were rather foolish.

[FallenAngelII]

I agree 100%. I believe the Atlanteans were rather foolish.

So if a race disagrees with you, every single member of that race must die, even if they're not currently or quite possibly will never be a threat to you?

Todd, after all, was willing to at least try the treatment out. Ellia was essentially a good child, she only fed for survival. Kyana or whatever he name was fell in love with Jonas, decided to betray Ba'al and eventually sacrificed herself for the sake of mere humans. We don't know anything about the Ori because we pretty much only got to see two (or quite possibly just the one).

But since they were all Wraith, Goa'uld and Ori, I guess hitting a giant kill switch to kill them all regardless of past or future crimes is warranted.

The Wraith don't even kill for sport (except for the Hunters, but they're just bad Wraith) or for fun. They feed for survival with death being a side effect. So the Ancients were to kill them all for merely wanting to survive?

If 1 Spaniard attacks you, you're allowed to fight them in self-defense. If 100 Spaniards attack you, you're allowed to kill them all because it's much too risky to try to simply subdue them. If 1,000 Spaniards attack, the same. What you cannot do is nuke Spain or release a poison which will genetically kill anyone with Spanish genes in them.

That is genocide.

[ussrelativity]

And can the same be said for the Asurans?

[FallenAngelII]

And can the same be said for the Asurans?

The Asurans were, as a race, eterminating other humans in the galaxy and attacking the expedition. It wasn't just a few Asurans doing it. They were doing it as one, which is understandable since they shared a consciousness.

They posed an immediate threat to everyone.

The Asurans who didn't agree were hunted down and killed by the others or currently on the run.

The Wraith back in the Ancients' days were just feeding. And some of them chose to go to war with the Ancients. Those were free game.

[ussrelativity]

Yes, and the efforts against the Asurans were quite more extensive, sending their 304s out taking out their ships one by one. The expedition didn't do that with the Wraith, while more worlds are being culled.

[Xaeden]

The Asurans who didn't agree were hunted down and killed by the others or currently on the run.

Can you be so sure that there weren't any good ones still on Asura when they attacked it? What about those who disagreed, but felt that it was too dangerous to go off on their own? They never addressed the possibility of such Asurans existing, but it stands to reason not everyone fell into one of two distinct camps.

The Wraith back in the Ancients' days were just feeding. And some of them chose to go to war with the Ancients. Those were free game.

The device, if it worked as intended, would've crippled ships which, as far as we know, were all considered military targets and thus free game to the Ancients. Even if there were Wraith with different ideals running around on a few ships, it's not like the Ancients would've stopped and asked them what they believed before being attacked, so with or without the device they were targets to be destroyed if encountered. If the device did to the Wraith what the Dakara device did to the replicators, then I would tend to agree with you. But I don't see it as genocide to cripple all enemy ships and one by one take them out until they are so weakened that the Wraith surrender.

[wkw427]

They should of disabled all gates with the virus and turned it on.

Even if the wraith get the gates working, they have a nice surprise when the gate goes all boomy on them

[FallenAngelII]

Yes, and the efforts against the Asurans were quite more extensive, sending their 304s out taking out their ships one by one. The expedition didn't do that with the Wraith, while more worlds are being culled.

The Wraith cull for survival. The Asurans killed because they liked it (or whatever). The Wraith are not a current threat to either the expedition or to the worlds they cull (unless you're gonna kill someone simply for their inability to survive on anything other than a certain kind of food you'd prefer be left alone).

They're current embroiled in a civil war and not a single Wraith Hive has actively gone after the expedition for years now. Thus, they are not a direct threat to the expedition.

Can you be so sure that there weren't any good ones still on Asura when they attacked it? What about those who disagreed, but felt that it was too dangerous to go off on their own? They never addressed the possibility of such Asurans existing, but it stands to reason not everyone fell into one of two distinct camps.

The number of bad vs. good ones were obviously overwhelming. It's a case of sacrificing a few vs. the survival of many. The Asurans possess a shared consciousness.

If "goodness" is detected, your consciousness will either be overwritten or you will be hunted down and killed (as we were told last season). There were also only a small number of dissidents, which we were also told last season. Thus, the number of those who opposed the war against humanity was small and classifiable as collateral damage.

It's not a perfect world, we cannot just ask them "Which ones disagree" and trust them to be truthful.

The device, if it worked as intended, would've crippled ships which, as far as we know, were all considered military targets and thus free game to the Ancients.

I'm sorry, in what alternate reality have we seen, read or heard about the Ancients flying around blasting random Hives out of the sky simply for existing?

And crippled how? I mean, they're at civil war. They want the others to die. So tons of Wraith would die just because they didn't know and used their hyperdrives.

And who would tell the others and how? Once your ship is blown out of the sky, you're dead. Those left surviving in other ships, how are they to tell others through space? By going to a gated planet, gating somewhere close to another Hive (by guessing their location) and telling them to not use their Hyperdrives?

Communication in space is limited in range. Tons of Wraith will have died before the Wraith even wised up.

This coupled with the fact that the Lanteans are currently working with several Wraith hives on a peaceful solution. To then just go "Oops, you're dead" and betray their entire race, that's not kosher.

Even if there were Wraith with different ideals running around on a few ships, it's not like the Ancients would've stopped and asked them what they believed before being attacked, so with or without the device they were targets to be destroyed if encountered. If the device did to the Wraith what the Dakara device did to the replicators, then I would tend to agree with you. But I don't see it as genocide to cripple all enemy ships and one by one take them out until they are so weakened that the Wraith surrender.

The Ancients would only engage Wraith in self-defense. If a Hive was doing nothing but existing, the Ancients wouldn't have hunted them down and blown them out of the sky.

It's genocide for what I just said. It'd take the death of many Wraith before word got out enough so that no Wraith ship would engage their Hyperdrives.

And that's if enough Wraith are even alive to know about the Attero device. Not everyone would immediately recognize its effects, I'm sure.

And I'm sorry, what would the Wraith surrender to, exactly? To surrender to the Ancients would've meant certain death through starvation. The Ancients didn't have magical retroviri to transform the Wraith. The only two choices would be:
a) Quick and essentially painless death through explosions
b) Slow and painful death through starvation

[Jeffala]

The Wraith cull for survival.

But they enjoy it a bit too much.

And what of Runners? That's not required for survival.

[FallenAngelII]

But they enjoy it a bit too much.

Yeah, and? They should all be killed for... enjoying eating?

It's also for survival. Allowing yourself to feel sorry for your food is not in your best interest. Why do dog owners not eat dogs? Why do horse-riders not eat horse? Why do some become vegetarians due to a love of animals?

Humans can afford this as we can just become vegetarians or vegans and take supplemental pills if we're lacking in nourishment. The Wraith can't. They can only survive on humans.

They have to keep that distance, to treat humans like animals, to not feel sorry for them. Allowing themselves to question their only means of survival is good for their self-preservation.

And, still, enjoying eating too much is not a good reason for genocide. What part of it is so reprehensible, anyway? The fact that they just like feeding, that it feels good for them? Yes, horrible.

The Wraith don't even feed just for fun like we do (we sometimes eat more than we need to, we also waste food and we sometimes eat "just for fun"). They only feed when they need to. Why? Because doing otherwise would be wasteful due to their limited food supply (and this was true millions of years ago).

And what of Runners? That's not required for survival.

At the time of Ronon's capture, only 7 or so transmitters are active and it was even stated that they couldn't be sure all of them were runners. In other words, it's not a widely practiced sport and not on a wide scale.

Kill the entire race for the crimes of a small minority? Quick, nuke Alaska now for Sarah Palin's support on helicopter hunting.

[Jeffala]

Humans can afford this as we can just become vegetarians or vegans and take supplemental pills if we're lacking in nourishment. The Wraith can't. They can only survive on humans.

Then what should be done if Keller's modification works and Wraith can be made to digest normal food yet some refuse? Should they be allowed to kill sentients because they choose to? They wouldn't have to to survive, they would choose to.

[Integrabyte]

This like Arcturus was a failure. The first one destroyed a solar system, this one will destroy more . The Ancients liked big bangs .


I love how TPTB ridiculed the Ancients once more ...