What's with the MENSA crack?

[JadedWraith]

A lot. I liked the fact that they made Sheppard out to be really smart in the first season, that he wasn't just a soldier or a hotshot pilot. I don't like it that part of why I liked the character in the first place is now being made into a joke.

Enlighten me, please, exactly when and where did Shep displayed his mathematical genius in season I?



John pokes fun at Rodney and he showed he could take a joke, too.
The part I love about Stargate is when everybody, writters and fictional characters, can take a joke about themselves. Maybe fans should follow.

[Southern Red]

I really don't think Zelenka was being unkind to John. Watch his facial expressions. he was sincerely struggling to find the right words to use. Zelenka has the extra struggle of translating from Czech to English which can't be easy under extreme pressure and on top of it trying to communicate a very complicated abstract items such as the math he was trying to use.

It was obvious that Radek was struggling to find the right words and he was upfront with John about it right from the start of the conversation. Alot of scientist and engineers use the terming dumbing down to explain things to people who don't know, the idea is to give them a picture. That's not being mean, though most of us don't like to be told it is being dumbed down for us and John did respond to Radek appropriately and Radek got the point.

I do think Rodney was delibertly being meanspirited to John to make himself look better in front of Daniel.

I feel the same way about Zelenka, but my beef is with Gero's use of the phrase "dumb it down". A better choice of words would have prevented the whole scene from seeming to be overly mean. I think.

Enlighten me, please, exactly when and where did Shep displayed his mathematical genius in season I?



John pokes fun at Rodney and he showed he could take a joke, too.
The part I love about Stargate is when everybody, writters and fictional characters, can take a joke about themselves. Maybe fans should follow.

You didn't ask me, but I'm here so. *shrugs*

In The Rising we had this exchange:

SHEPPARD: When can you tell me where the Wraith took Colonel Sumner and the others?

McKAY: Even with the six symbols Lieutenant Ford provided there are still hundreds of permutations ...

SHEPPARD: Seven hundred and twenty.

McKAY: Yes. I knew that of course. I'm just surprised you did.

SHEPPARD: Take away the coordinates you can't get a lock on, and that's your one. When you find it, send a M.A.L.P.

(McKay walks away.)


And in Home.

LATER. CONTROL ROOM. Rodney comes up from under the Atlantis D.H.D. panel.

McKAY: There -- that's it. (He is holding the control crystal.)

SHEPPARD: So how easy will it be to put that thing in the other D.H.D.?

McKAY: The Atlantis D.H.D. is unique -- it's not like there'll be an empty slot waiting for us to plug it in.

WEIR: Meaning?

McKAY: Meaning that there may be some disassembly required.

FORD: You wanna take the D.H.D. apart?!

McKAY: I'll put it back together again.

TEYLA: Do you not run the risk of disabling the other Stargate?

McKAY: Only if I screw up, which is extremely unlikely.

SHEPPARD: Eight hundred and four years.

McKAY: What?

SHEPPARD: That's how long it will take us to come get you by Puddlejumper.

McKAY (sarcastically): But you would do that, right?

SHEPPARD (insincerely): Of course we would.


Now to some people this does not display genius level thinking, but to us normal people doing math that fast in your head shows you are a pretty sharp cookie. There may be other occasions, and I though John's plan in GUP was pretty smart also. Oh and in Trinity we got this part.

McKAY: Well, the sticking point is that there's no tie between the power generator and the primary capacitor.

ZELENKA: Meaning they would have to channel the power directly into the weapon.

McKAY (smiling smugly at John): Which I'm sure means nothing to you.

SHEPPARD: It means they can fire multiple bursts without having to store up more power for the next firing sequence.

(Rodney's face falls.)


Rodney is forever disappointed when John shows his intellect. He wants the stereotype about dumb military guys to be true. Okay, that's a running joke, but I don't think it was ever mean before until the last few seasons. It's just the tone of the exchanges I think. Maybe hard to see if you're not a big John fan.

[JadedWraith]

I feel the same way about Zelenka, but my beef is with Gero's use of the phrase "dumb it down". A better choice of words would have prevented the whole scene from seeming to be overly mean. I think.



You didn't ask me, but I'm here so. *shrugs*

In The Rising we had this exchange:

SHEPPARD: When can you tell me where the Wraith took Colonel Sumner and the others?

McKAY: Even with the six symbols Lieutenant Ford provided there are still hundreds of permutations ...

SHEPPARD: Seven hundred and twenty.

McKAY: Yes. I knew that of course. I'm just surprised you did.

SHEPPARD: Take away the coordinates you can't get a lock on, and that's your one. When you find it, send a M.A.L.P.

(McKay walks away.)


And in Home.

LATER. CONTROL ROOM. Rodney comes up from under the Atlantis D.H.D. panel.

McKAY: There -- that's it. (He is holding the control crystal.)

SHEPPARD: So how easy will it be to put that thing in the other D.H.D.?

McKAY: The Atlantis D.H.D. is unique -- it's not like there'll be an empty slot waiting for us to plug it in.

WEIR: Meaning?

McKAY: Meaning that there may be some disassembly required.

FORD: You wanna take the D.H.D. apart?!

McKAY: I'll put it back together again.

TEYLA: Do you not run the risk of disabling the other Stargate?

McKAY: Only if I screw up, which is extremely unlikely.

SHEPPARD: Eight hundred and four years.

McKAY: What?

SHEPPARD: That's how long it will take us to come get you by Puddlejumper.

McKAY (sarcastically): But you would do that, right?

SHEPPARD (insincerely): Of course we would.


Now to some people this does not display genius level thinking, but to us normal people doing math that fast in your head shows you are a pretty sharp cookie. There may be other occasions, and I though John's plan in GUP was pretty smart also. Oh and in Trinity we got this part.

McKAY: Well, the sticking point is that there's no tie between the power generator and the primary capacitor.

ZELENKA: Meaning they would have to channel the power directly into the weapon.

McKAY (smiling smugly at John): Which I'm sure means nothing to you.

SHEPPARD: It means they can fire multiple bursts without having to store up more power for the next firing sequence.

(Rodney's face falls.)


Rodney is forever disappointed when John shows his intellect. He wants the stereotype about dumb military guys to be true. Okay, that's a running joke, but I don't think it was ever mean before until the last few seasons. It's just the tone of the exchanges I think. Maybe hard to see if you're not a big John fan.

Thanks for answering.

I am not a huge Shep fan, granted. But It is less because of his intellect than his ethics. As for the examples, I remembered the ones about the number of probable gate adresses and one you didn't mention, the solving of the puzzle in The Brotherwood. I wasn't very impressed by those as I could solve them and I am not Mensa material. As for the other two, you would expect John, as military man and a pilot to have some basic notions about the physics of travelling and weapon's functions... I can't understand why Radek and Rodney forgot that. I am not one of those who think intelligence can be measured by a number or it is only related with mathematic or logic skills...there are several other inteligence types.

My point is: the joke is more about how Rodney, Radek and this time, Daniel, perceive others who do not belong in their so called intelectual circle than on John's intelect. Which is fine. Nothing brilliant because the writers aren't that bright, to begin with

[ykickamoocow]

I took it as the stuff that McKay and Daniel were doing was so complex that even a person who was smart enough to join Mensa would most likely have no way of helping.

Members of Mensa are seen by the average person as very smart but McKay and Daniel would be considered geniuses by members of Mensa.

Sheppard may be the best of the best in terms of intelligence but McKay and Daniel would be considered best of the best of the best (if that makes sense).

[Southern Red]

Thanks for answering.

I am not a huge Shep fan, granted. But It is less because of his intellect than his ethics. As for the examples, I remembered the ones about the number of probable gate adresses and one you didn't mention, the solving of the puzzle in The Brotherwood. I wasn't very impressed by those as I could solve them and I am not Mensa material. As for the other two, you would expect John, as military man and a pilot to have some basic notions about the physics of travelling and weapon's functions... I can't understand why Radek and Rodney forgot that. I am not one of those who think intelligence can be measured by a number or it is only related with mathematic or logic skills...there are several other inteligence types.

My point is: the joke is more about how Rodney, Radek and this time, Daniel, perceive others who do not belong in their so called intelectual circle than on John's intelect. Which is fine. Nothing brilliant because the writers aren't that bright, to begin with

That makes sense. And I got the Brotherhood puzzle also. I was screaming "magic square magic square" the whole time. I used to teach elementary skool. lol Again, the writers underestimating the average viewer. But I hope my former students got it.

I took it as the stuff that McKay and Daniel were doing was so complex that even a person who was smart enough to join Mensa would most likely have no way of helping.

Members of Mensa are seen by the average person as very smart but McKay and Daniel would be considered geniuses by members of Mensa.

Sheppard may be the best of the best in terms of intelligence but McKay and Daniel would be considered best of the best of the best (if that makes sense).

This also makes sense. I was quick to defend my boy and didn't look at it objectively. But it's just annoying that the supposed star of the show has to be publicly humiliated by his team. I'm still ticked off about the end of Harmony also.

[SGLAB]

I took it as the stuff that McKay and Daniel were doing was so complex that even a person who was smart enough to join Mensa would most likely have no way of helping.

Members of Mensa are seen by the average person as very smart but McKay and Daniel would be considered geniuses by members of Mensa.

Sheppard may be the best of the best in terms of intelligence but McKay and Daniel would be considered best of the best of the best (if that makes sense).

The thing is while Mensa might not be that impressive in the real world, it was established in the Brotherhood that it should be perceived as impressive in the Stargate universe because Rodney was very surprised and impressed in The Brotherhood when he found out John had passed the Mensa test.

[Lythisrose]

The thing is while Mensa might not be that impressive in the real world, it was established in the Brotherhood that it should be perceived as impressive in the Stargate universe because Rodney was very surprised and impressed in The Brotherhood when he found out John had passed the Mensa test.

Also in McKay and Mrs. Miller, the AU John was evidently quite arrogant about his intelligence and his MENSA membership.
If the intelligence levels are equal in the two universes (although I guess I have no proof that they are), there is no reason to believe Shep isn't pretty darned brilliant in this one too, he has just never exploited that particular resource, so to speak.

[JadedWraith]

Again, the writers underestimating the average viewer.

Amen to that!

This also makes sense. I was quick to defend my boy and didn't look at it objectively. But it's just annoying that the supposed star of the show has to be publicly humiliated by his team. I'm still ticked off about the end of Harmony also.

Uh...true value and valor are seldom recognized...That also goes for Shep, who has many faults but is not a coward and can be quite selfless. That's irony for you.

[garhkal]

They're just joking around seeing as how he doesn't look like he could be in MENSA (he's in the military and a "flyboy", after all).

Also, he doesn't really act like he could be in MENSA most of the time either.

That is true. One thing i would like ot know. Was he really given the chance to join, or did john make that up to make himself seem smarter?

[Rosehawk]

I feel the same way about Zelenka, but my beef is with Gero's use of the phrase "dumb it down". A better choice of words would have prevented the whole scene from seeming to be overly mean. I think.

It didn't bother me to much because I have heard that term used in the real world when working with technical people. And while it can seem mean, I didn't see the 'mean' in that scene with Radek and John.

The thing is while Mensa might not be that impressive in the real world, it was established in the Brotherhood that it should be perceived as impressive in the Stargate universe because Rodney was very surprised and impressed in The Brotherhood when he found out John had passed the Mensa test.

And I'm guessing that Rodney can't understand why anyone smart enough to be able to join Mensa would NOT want to be a part of Mensa. So instead of just accepting it, he has to mock John about it and takes every opportunity to do just that.

[Ripple in Space]

They were just teasing him. Rodney considers Shep one of his best friends, and Daniel isn't mean to anyone without glowy eyes.

Shep is technically a genius, but guys like Rodney & Daniel are smarter than Einstein or Hawking. Like Daniel said in this episode, Rodney would have won the Nobel Prize many times over already (and the guys first on the shallow end of middle-age). And real archaeologists say that Daniel's findings over the course of one episode would dwarf a TEAM of the best archaeologists' work over the course of nearly a DECADE or more. So there's some truth in their remarks, but it was lighthearted teasing.

Think back to Daniel's snarkiness towards Jack, but when it came down to it he pointed out that Jack's a heck of a lot smarter than he gets credit for. Really, the only "ordinary" human, in terms of intellect, that has starred in SG is Mitchell, all the others are geniuses.

[Rac80]

well, mckay was a jerk!?!?!?! is anyone really surprised? He is super competitive and responds by demeaning everyone around him from Radek to Ronon to John to Samantha Carter! it was just rodney doing what he does best... being a jerk.

[GateofDOOM]

Think back to Daniel's snarkiness towards Jack, but when it came down to it he pointed out that Jack's a heck of a lot smarter than he gets credit for. Really, the only "ordinary" human, in terms of intellect, that has starred in SG is Mitchell, all the others are geniuses.

Even then, he's not exactly stupid either!


I actually thought this scene was a bit of bizarre editing to me, seemed like Shanks did a spontaneous acting with the facial expression, Hewlett followed suit and Flanigan missed it (cause he didn't see it or whatever).

That's how it came across to me on first blush, but I definitely could be wrong.


Oh and I totally didn't get the "magic square" thing in the Brotherhood, they didn't underestimate me!

[Khentkawes]

I thought the joke was weird, but not mean-spirited. I sort of took it at face-value. Rodney did seem a bit smug, but I couldn't tell whether it was because he was smug that he was smarter than Shep or whether he was bragging that everyone on Atlantis has to be Mensa quality, or what. So I just took it as Rodney being smug, trying to brag about something, and being his eccentric self.

As for Daniel, I assumed he was trying not to laugh at Rodney's smug attitude. Daniel's never been one to brag about his intelligence, or to make fun of anyone else for their intelligence. He just seemed to be laughing at McKay's continuous bragging.

I guess I'll have to watch the scene closer next week when Sci-fi replays it to see if that interpretation still holds.

As for Radek... I don't think he was rude. Frustrated, yes. Besides, the whole reason for that scene was to explain the situation to the viewers as quickly and simply as possible. The "dumbing it down" thing was just to make it short and simple so they could skip to the action as quickly as possible.

[KindlyKeller]

well, mckay was a jerk!?!?!?! is anyone really surprised? He is super competitive and responds by demeaning everyone around him from Radek to Ronon to John to Samantha Carter! it was just rodney doing what he does best... being a jerk.