I Throw Up My Hands in Defeat: The Triangle IS Poorly Written

[Reiko]

*claps for kali*

Spoiler:

At the end, when they "contain" the explosion in a forcefield. That is a horrible affront to physics.

Have you met Pajus yet? You two will love each other.

[dasNdanger]

Ok I can see Jenn as dorothy lamour but mckay MUST be hope --he's bald and a joke! mental green for you!

Oh, Rodney (Well, DH) looks exactly like Bob Hope! First time I saw him, all I could think of was Hope. Ronon's 'cool' and smooth, like Crosby. And Keller, in a sarong...THAT should get the 18-year old boys a'watchin'!

(Thanks for the green, mental and otherwise - here and elsewhere!)

das

[fumblesmcstupid]

Dorthy LaMour???

[KindlyKeller]

we only saw her watch two different parts of the tape one time each.

I'm not quite sure what you mean. The tape starts at the same point both times.

and did she see him make that part? we know she is taping part of it, but in that segment there is no indication she is there.

She did and there is.

"McKAY: Jennifer, there's something I wanted to, um ... while I remember, while I still can; there's something I wanted to say before, um ...

KELLER: Go ahead."

[Pandora's_Box]

Pssst, KK.

It's called denial.

[KindlyKeller]

with McKay, roughly in his mid-forties.

I'm pretty sure 40 doesn't qualify as your mid-forties.

[magie]

For pairing #2, which we'll call Dex and Keller, you're pairing one individual dedicated to tearing people apart with an individual dedicated to putting people back together. Now, I understand that some people don't have a problem with opposites attracting. True love and all that... But I've found that large scale differences lead to large scale arguments.

Not only that, but you've got Keller, established as a brain, a genius, with Ronon, the male bimbo of SGA, Mr "If I grunt five words in a row, that's an exploit".

Ouah, imagine the conversations between those two!

Hmm, come to think of it, I would rather not.

At least, MacKay and Keller would have things in common and could have interesting discussions (note that I'm not a Keller/Mackay shipper, I'm a "Todd should eat Keller" fan).

[Rac80]

Not only that, but you've got Keller, established as a brain, a genius, with Ronon, the male bimbo of SGA, Mr "If I grunt five words in a row, that's an exploit".

Ouah, imagine the conversations between those two!

Hmm, come to think of it, I would rather not.

At least, MacKay and Keller would have things in common and could have interesting discussions (note that I'm not a Keller/Mackay shipper, I'm a "Todd should eat Keller" fan).

I honestly don't think they TALK much do you?

[Pandora's_Box]

I honestly don't think they TALK much do you?

And that's a meaningful realtionship?

[lissad27]

we only saw her watch two different parts of the tape one time each. She shut it off the first time we saw her, she hadn't reached the so-called confession yet. and did she see him make that part? we know she is taping part of it, but in that segment there is no indication she is there.
Sorry just mho.

The interesting thing is: my point isn't how many times she watched the tape or how many times she heard the confession. The point is, the writers scuttled her character's ethics for a LOVE TRIANGLE. I think she could have come off, in that episode, a lot stronger if they'd left those scenes out. They added nothing to the plot. We'd been better off seeing (more of) his interaction with his sister or Teyla or, I don't know, Wolsey.

It wasn't until that scene that I really had a problem with the character. She was, from my point of view, poorly and inconsistently written, but tolerable - or at least ignorable. But that? If they wanted to have the love thing, they could have done it better than throwing out the AMA guidelines.

PS - I thought she was done well in Tracker. It's the way the character should have been written from the start. (To be honest, I was stunned.)

I also think the love business should have been left on the editing room floor. It put both men in a bad light. And subsequently Keller.

I, as a general rule, don't like romance in my sci-fi television. And this love thing with SGA is why. All three characters have been reduced to caricatures of their S2-selves (see 13-year-olds) and Keller is made to look either like an ignorant ninny with all the backbone of an amoeba or a cruel manipulative ... cow. Its coming across as bad jr. high school drama, when, if done right, it could be an adult relationship.

Hears a shocker: I actually think The Last Man AU scene was plausible as a relationship for Keller and McKay. It was realistic and mature. And they didn't have to do it over several episodes. I felt bad that they had this good thing going and she died. Now, maybe they're building to that (not necessarily the dying bit) ... with one of the men, but do we have to see the male posturing and wide-eyed female ignorance/cruelty first? It does no favors for any of the characters. If I were her, I'd ditch the pair of them

Who knows...maybe she's going to have a talk with them. You know, the 'For-the-love-of-pete! Grown-up!' sort of thing. I would, after a certain point; or at least throw something at them. But, again, why have to do that at all? It forces the characters into a farcical plot, that could easily be avoided.

You shouldn't have to compromise the integrity of characters for a plot, or subplot. If the characters and plot are handled well, it should be like putting on old shoes...they just slip into the relationship/new character aspect with ease and plausibility.

[ykickamoocow]

I, as a general rule, don't like romance in my sci-fi television.

Star Trek has generally done romance reasonably well. Off the top of my head they had

Torres/Paris
Dax/Worf
Ezri Dax/Bashir
Sisko/Yates
Riker/Troi (though that one was abit iffy).

Still Star Trek does romance and for the most part they work reasonably well.

[Stormtrooper]

It's not a matter of poor writing, in this case. It's poor judgment by TPTB. Triangles are inherently made of fail, especially one with (princess) Keller, (caveman) Ronon and (sugar daddy) McKay. So wrong.

[Pegasus_SGA]

There. I've said it. Are you happy now? All of you that have worried and wailed against the very idea of a love triangle on SGA.

I protested against your concerns and stood by TPTB in the ultimately vain hope that we'd get something interesting and worthwhile out of their attempt to write a romantic relationship (or two) into the show. Alas, it was not to be.

First Contact is the first episode that really plays up on the notion that Ronon and Rodney are interested in and "competing" for the same woman, Jennifer. And what do we have to show for it?

Desperate Rodney, staring after the two of them forlornly as Jennifer and Ronon run off to the Deadalus together.

A somewhat jerk-ish Ronon as he smirks back at Rodney as he leaves with Jennifer.

And an either oblivious or uncaring Jennifer who knows how Rodney feels yet seems to be encouraging Ronon.

Which wouldn't matter if she reciprocated Ronon's feelings, but we don't know what she's about because TPTB seem to have forgotten all about the third side of this triangle. Making this triangle more similar to a right-angle with no purpose other than what? To demonstrate how silly men get when they're "in love"?

So what's going on here? Are TPTB really screwing this up or is that just happening in my crazy mind?

Ah hon. I don't like to say I told you so.. well I do. But

Can't we just say the writers are men and leave it at that?

Seriously though, I don't know if Ronon is deliberately seeing how far he can push Rodney into saying something to Keller, or he's just being mean. And I don't think Ronon is mean. I think possibly in his own way, he's forcing Rodney to do something that he wouldn't normally do. To be honest, I can't stand it, I find it immature, and to be frank nauseating to watch. I skip through parts of the shrine because of it, and I balked at some of the scenes at FC. It just puts me off to be honest.

I can't stand love triangles, and find the whole thing something along the lines of caveman behaviour. And it's really not appealing, and for me a good friend wouldn't deliberately flirt wth a girl, when they know they're friend is interested in them. Seriously bad form, but i've yet to see a 'romance' blossoming relationship, that has been written decently by the boys.

I don't know maybe they think that 'fighting' for the girl is a crowd pleaser? *shudders at the thought*

Pandora - on a side note you might want to add 'spoilers' to the title.

[Pandora's_Box]

It's not a matter of poor writing, in this case. It's poor judgment by TPTB. Triangles are inherently made of fail, especially one with (princess) Keller, (caveman) Ronon and (sugar daddy) McKay. So wrong.

It seems, then, that you and I are coming at this from different angles then. I saw the characters as well-written and enjoyable. Now I see them as being molded to fit into this bizarre triangle and they are no longer as well-written as they once were.

It's not the presence of the triangle that's the problem, but how the characters are being portrayed to enable the existence of said triangle.

Ah hon. I don't like to say I told you so.. well I do. But

:: pouts :: Comfort is never not appreciated.

Can't we just say the writers are men and leave it at that?

Sigh....But they're writers! And there are plenty of male writers out there capable of writing believable romantic relationships, so what's going on here? Out of all the people writing for this show, can none of them manage it?

Pandora - on a side note you might want to add 'spoilers' to the title.

It's in the Season 5 thread so I think I'm okay. It's not a thread for future episodes, just the ones up to and including First Contact.

[Pegasus_SGA]

It seems, then, that you and I are coming at this from different angles then. I saw the characters as well-written and enjoyable. Now I see them as being molded to fit into this bizarre triangle and they are no longer as well-written as they once were.

It's not the presence of the triangle that's the problem, but how the characters are being portrayed to enable the existence of said triangle.

In the words of Teal'c i've never known Ronon to be hurtful to McKay.. yes he's gruff etc, but his compassion in the Shrine seemed to negate that playful bantering and he sees him as a friend. I think it's mean spirited to be honest, so I find it hard that Ronon would behave like that. Which is why i'm thinking he's doing it deliberately so Rodney actually makes an effort, tells Keller and stands up to him. *shrugs* I'll never like it though.

:: pouts :: Comfort is never not appreciated.

Oh hon

Sigh....But they're writers! And there are plenty of male writers out there capable of writing believable romantic relationships, so what's going on here? Out of all the people writing for this show, can none of them manage it?

I don't know hon. Maybe they see it as a cavemen fantasy or think that women like having men fighting for them? I don't know to be honest. maybe they think it develops the character in some way... I have no idea why they decided on it, but it just makes me want to turn off my chanel to be honest.

It's in the Season 5 thread so I think I'm okay. It's not a thread for future episodes, just the ones up to and including First Contact.

You still have to have spoilers in the thread name though hon, Surprisingly you'd think it would be ok wouldn't you, and that anyone knowing coming into a s5 thread would have spoilers? No no no, my friend, it's got to be clearly labeled in the title. The mods can add it, just report your initial post and ask them to add 'spoilers' then you won't get into trouble.