'Broken Ties' (503) General Discussion

[Callie]

Help, quick, before I post the transcript! What is the "Tuesday" that Rodney refers to when he makes an excuse to go and get lunch and leave John and Teyla alone? I can't make it out.

Thanks!

[Ugly Pig]

There was an SG1 episode long ago where Teal'c was captured by the Gouald and had to be rescued/unbrainwashed. This episode was just another retread, and not as good as its SG1 original either.

Give me a break. Seems this has become some sort of game to some of you people - "Which SG-1 episode can we accuse this week's episode to be a retread of"? Just because there are vaguely similar elements doesn't make it a "retread". What'll it be next week? "Hey, parallel universes? This is exactly the same as that one where Daniel goes through the quantum mirror and also exactly the same as the one were lots of alternate SG-1s come to the SGC! Yeah! What do I win?"

BTW, the SG-1 episode you're thinking of is 'Threshold' from season five and it bears no actual resemblance to 'Broken Ties' whatsoever.

storyline felt really rushed and i getting kind of sick of the characters getting into trouble and at the end of the episode all is merry.

Heh... welcome to episodic television.

[KindlyKeller]

Bit of a shame they emphasis Sheppard's team and not the personnel of Atlantis - it coudl have been quiet an interesting arc for Teyla had she left the team (even temporarily) and tried finding a different arrangement, rather than have everything solved in one episode.

I don't think they could have made that work, and it really would have just felt -- in my opinion -- like they were dragging things out at the expense of the rest of the storytelling. I'm glad they addressed it, but one episode is more than enough for me.

[KindlyKeller]

It was the 'they left with a wraith, but arrived without one' hint.

Well, apparently I didn't even remember that Ford was in S & R, so I'm a bumbling fool wandering through my viewings, I guess.

[bluealien]

I love how people want her to be back to the way she was pre-baby...anyone who has had children or been around those who have had children know that permanent personality changes take place, sometimes small and sometimes large. If TPTB had done anything but what they are doing, I'd be calling them out for not understanding what pregnancy and motherhood do to women.

I have 3 children and I am quite aware how they can make a difference in your life but they don't change your personality... well at least they didnt change mine.. my point was Teyla has already stated that things don't change amongst her people during pregnancy and I would think not even after. She would still have to face dangers if she was with her people and always face a risk of injury so why is this suddenly so different when she is on Atlantis and the child has a father.. its not like it would be an orphan if something happened to her.. if she was completely alone I could understand her indecision more..

[miniglik]

Yeah, I get that in retrospect. But at the time, I thought Ronon had done it, and was attacking Tyre simply because he was the enemy. When Teyla stunned Ronon, I was quite confused.

I think that was poor editting, actually. I don't mind that you had to be really paying attention to notice that Sheppard and Tyre took out the clone Wraith on the way to see head Wraith, but it really should have been more obvious who cut the hand off.

[pjt]

Help, quick, before I post the transcript! What is the "Tuesday" that Rodney refers to when he makes an excuse to go and get lunch and leave John and Teyla alone? I can't make it out.

Thanks!

I understood 'taquito tuesday'.

[MerryK]

I have 3 children and I am quite aware how they can make a difference in your life but they don't change your personality... well at least they didnt change mine.. my point was Teyla has already stated that things don't change amongst her people during pregnancy and I would think not even after. She would still have to face dangers if she was with her people and always face a risk of injury so why is this suddenly so different when she is on Atlantis and the child has a father.. its not like it would be an orphan if something happened to her.. if she was completely alone I could understand her indecision more..

Her indecision started when she was unsure of Kanaan's situation, which makes perfect sense to me. Yes, pregnancy can change your situation very little if you have a supportive father, but without one? You're going to have to think about the changes then. And in this episode, she's just starting to get used to the idea of having a secure family, which is why there's a little more indecision before she realizes what she has to do.

(Three of my friends have made the change to motherhood, and two of them are amazingly changed in personality, and one has had her personality exaggerated. I'm not sure they even notice, though, as it happened fairly gradually over the pregnancy/early motherhood.)

[Cautious Explorer]

She had brought this up months ago and she is still indecisive after all this time, I'm also not at all surprised that John was frustrated.
I still don't really understand why Teyla even has a dilemma. She comes from a background where seemingly she has faced danger constantly and has indicated that nothing changes even while pregnant and assuming even after the child is born.. Athosian woman continue to play a big part in the community.. again I asume that also means defending it from hostiles and the Wraith. Would Teyla be thinking about keeping out of harms way if she was still with her people....

I get the feeling TPTB have forgotten that Teyla is Athosian. They're trying to write Teyla (and now Kanaan) as if she's a typical suburban parent from Earth with similar career/family decisions. They would have written any other member of the expedition the same way, except for the fact that they would have been shipped back to Earth and stayed there until they decided to rejoin the team. What's in store next week, a difficult decision on how to redecorate Teyla's quarters to incorporate Kanaan's tastes? Maybe an argument over parenting styles? Thrilling stuff.

Again I have to agree. I didnt like the direction the ptb took Teyla in season 4 and hoped they would get her back on track in season 5 but this indecisive Teyla who doesn't seem to know her own mind anymore is truely disappointing me. Even her wet blanket lover was able to point out that she would still be making the place better and safer for her son.. and the baby has a father.. not like before when she thought she was the last of her people...

Teyla was the leader of her people for many years. She's used to making hard decisions, and used to looking at what's best for all. Suddenly she's lost that capacity with motherhood? And as you pointed out, the presence of a fully-functioning, dezombified Kanaan should make that decision all the easier.

"I tried to tell you", was was pretty lame coming from Teyla.. how can you try and tell someone.. you either do or your don't ... and why does she always seem to take her anger out on John for the situation she has gotten herself into.. why did she snap at him because he didnt consult her ..she had just told him that she didnt know if she wanted to come back to the team.

It goes back to the old 'I expect you to read my mind even though I'm sending out ambiguous signals" that they've been selling since season four. I hate it. It's not at all in Teyla's character IMO to hold back like that. She's not chatty or overly opinionated, but she's always been able to assert her views in the past. It should be second nature to her. It was her way of life as a leader for years and years.

I thought so too but sadly no and I don't think it's helping Teyla's character at all. I just hope she is not reduced to just mommy with conflicting feelings.

I know I sound very critical of Teyla. It's just that I'm so disappointed. This is not the character I came to know and like in prior seasons. I was hoping season four was an awkward situation that had to be endured until things got back to normal. Now I'm wondering if they will.

I love how people want her to be back to the way she was pre-baby...anyone who has had children or been around those who have had children know that permanent personality changes take place, sometimes small and sometimes large. If TPTB had done anything but what they are doing, I'd be calling them out for not understanding what pregnancy and motherhood do to women.

I know it sounds callous, but I'm not at all interested in Teyla's motherhood dilemmas. It all seems so mundane, and it feels to me like Teyla has lost all spark of anything interesting. She's so placid in dealing with Kanaan (she kind of treats him like her eldest child -- so patient and calming, as if he's a little slow); cooing and loving with the baby (which is sweet but uninteresting for me. I'd rather see Woolsey and his dog); courteous and unassertive with Woolsey (I didn't see any impassioned arguments that Kanaan et al should be released from the camp -- could have all happened offscreen in the weeks?days? prior to the domestic bliss of this episode).

As bluealien pointed out, Teyla has commented before that Athosian women remain active during pregnancy, face danger, etc. I'm not sure why we're seeing Teyla face the same dilemmas as a woman from Earth deciding whether or not to go back to work. She was raised in an entirely different world that quite possibly has an entirely different outlook on childrearing and the responsibilities of motherhood.

it wasn't horrible. Didn't get my attention like dr who had just an hour before. they're overplaying the bumbling aspec of woolsey...3 scenes a show is just a bit too much (the doors closing on him, the divorce story, him and the baby), tone it down a bit. It's not endearing it's kinda annoying

I actually found it endearing -- at least the dog part. But then, I have several four-legged babies had home, so I can sympathize. The doors and getting lost on the way to the cafeteria were a little bumbling, but understandable. And I give him points for not acting hysterical when she handed him the baby. He seemed like a natural with that.

ronon's wig is just bad. if it was blond i'd wonder if he borrowed it from the shirley temple wardrobe collection

LOL. I was wondering why I kept thinking of an old costume drama. Three Musketeers or an old Swashbuckler maybe.

[starfox]

I have 3 children and I am quite aware how they can make a difference in your life but they don't change your personality... well at least they didnt change mine.. my point was Teyla has already stated that things don't change amongst her people during pregnancy and I would think not even after. She would still have to face dangers if she was with her people and always face a risk of injury so why is this suddenly so different when she is on Atlantis and the child has a father.. its not like it would be an orphan if something happened to her.. if she was completely alone I could understand her indecision more..

IIRC, Teyla's mother died when Teyla was a young child; perhaps she's trying to avoid putting her son through what she went through? Being a member of the Atlantis off-world team and actively walking into danger is a bit different than living your life on Athos and being prepared for danger should it come to you.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

I don't get the confusion over who cut the Wraith's hand off, but that's just me I guess.

[Skydiver]

it makes a difference. If ronon cut off his hand, then his later devotion to the wraith makes no sense. he wouldn't kill the holder of his 'fix'. If it was tyre, then it supports what we later found out, that tyre was redeeming himself for the good

I didn't watch it that closely, but one of the folks i watch with thought that it was ronon who'd cut off the hand.

[g.o.d]

it makes a difference. If ronon cut off his hand, then his later devotion to the wraith makes no sense. he wouldn't kill the holder of his 'fix'. If it was tyre, then it supports what we later found out, that tyre was redeeming himself for the good

I didn't watch it that closely, but one of the folks i watch with thought that it was ronon who'd cut off the hand.

watch it again because it was Tyre, not Ronon

[flynn1959]

Another good episode imo. I really wanted to hate Wollsey but find that imposible.

I loved Weir and didn't think I would be able to watch the show again without her but Woolsey has stepped in and filled the gaping hole she left - at least a little anyway.

After giving up on the show last season I find myself looking forward to new episodes. And I can't wait for the Daniel/Shanks two parter!

[miniglik]

I get the feeling TPTB have forgotten that Teyla is Athosian. They're trying to write Teyla (and now Kanaan) as if she's a typical suburban parent from Earth with similar career/family decisions. They would have written any other member of the expedition the same way, except for the fact that they would have been shipped back to Earth and stayed there until they decided to rejoin the team. What's in store next week, a difficult decision on how to redecorate Teyla's quarters to incorporate Kanaan's tastes? Maybe an argument over parenting styles? Thrilling stuff.




Teyla was the leader of her people for many years. She's used to making hard decisions, and used to looking at what's best for all. Suddenly she's lost that capacity with motherhood? And as you pointed out, the presence of a fully-functioning, dezombified Kanaan should make that decision all the easier.



It goes back to the old 'I expect you to read my mind even though I'm sending out ambiguous signals" that they've been selling since season four. I hate it. It's not at all in Teyla's character IMO to hold back like that. She's not chatty or overly opinionated, but she's always been able to assert her views in the past. It should be second nature to her. It was her way of life as a leader for years and years.




I know I sound very critical of Teyla. It's just that I'm so disappointed. This is not the character I came to know and like in prior seasons. I was hoping season four was an awkward situation that had to be endured until things got back to normal. Now I'm wondering if they will.



I know it sounds callous, but I'm not at all interested in Teyla's motherhood dilemmas. It all seems so mundane, and it feels to me like Teyla has lost all spark of anything interesting. She's so placid in dealing with Kanaan (she kind of treats him like her eldest child -- so patient and calming, as if he's a little slow); cooing and loving with the baby (which is sweet but uninteresting for me. I'd rather see Woolsey and his dog); courteous and unassertive with Woolsey (I didn't see any impassioned arguments that Kanaan et al should be released from the camp -- could have all happened offscreen in the weeks?days? prior to the domestic bliss of this episode).

As bluealien pointed out, Teyla has commented before that Athosian women remain active during pregnancy, face danger, etc. I'm not sure why we're seeing Teyla face the same dilemmas as a woman from Earth deciding whether or not to go back to work. She was raised in an entirely different world that quite possibly has an entirely different outlook on childrearing and the responsibilities of motherhood.

Ironically, I never found Teyla the least bit interesting earlier in the show, but I do find some of her team-identity mom-identity issues moderately more entertaining (why does that have to be different than earth parents? why shouldn't the dilemma of whether to leave your child to do battle be universal?). Also more entertaining (for me) is when she doesn't necessarily communicate perfectly and with unwavering grace, and when she has moments of indecisions. So, I liked the scene between her and John. I hope she never returns to Perfect Teyla, who never does anything with any sort of emotional complication.

In my opinion, she's still the most boring character on the show. But at least she has a personality other than perfect sparkly warrior princess.