Are the writiers incapable of balance now?

[Mitchell82]

Atlantis definately could work with an ensemble cast, but not with Mallozzi and Co. at the helm. Whedon did it great in Firefly with nine main core characters, each having their own special moments in the episodes. SGA only has six, but the writer's don't have the organizational skills or dicipline that writers/producers like Whedon has.

Thus, we are left with the hero, Sheppard; the geeky cohort, McKay (I was going to say 'sidekick' but they both get about the same portion of time); and the his lover, Keller -- and not to mention those other, less-important background people.

I disagree. I understand that people want to see every character in every ep but that can't be done. In order to develop characters well you need to split them up from time to time. Mallozi has done a fine job IMO and tptb IMO know what they are doing.

[Crazedwraith]

I disagree. I understand that people want to see every character in every ep but that can't be done. In order to develop characters well you need to split them up from time to time. Mallozi has done a fine job IMO and tptb IMO know what they are doing.

We proved with examples, that it can be done, with a modium of clever writing. Not all characters are going to have major parts in all episodes but that doesn't mean they shouldn't at least appear and it doesn't mean they should never have episodes that focus on them ala Ronon or Teyla.

And splitting them up doesn't have to mean they disappear. Take Farscape as another example. The five main characters (six if you include pilot, and even more after late season 1) are always splitting up but the plot always shows what each little group is doing.

[Skydiver]

kinda like Solitudes or Tangent, where the team was split, in solitudes, you had jack and sam struggling to survive, daniel and teal'c searching for them. In tangent, jack and teal'c trapped, sam and daniel trying to rescue them.
they were split up almost totally for the eps...but both were great episodes because they all had something to do. they all served a vital role. A lot of times now, we get a token 'yeah, let's have that 2 minute commissary scene so we get episode appearance points for ronon and shep' or 'yeah, let's have carter deliver that line so she gets 'credit' for appearing in this eps, even if that 20 second scene is all she has.

it's almost like they write the episode, THEN sit down and go 'dang it, we need to get this character in this one to fulfil their contract, so shove a scene in there for them, will ya???'

[Reiko]

I disagree. I understand that people want to see every character in every ep but that can't be done. In order to develop characters well you need to split them up from time to time. Mallozi has done a fine job IMO and tptb IMO know what they are doing.

Actually, it can be done, because Whedon (first jumps to mind) did it, and other writers do it. Heck, he had a Firefly episode driven around a character that was not part of the main cast (Our Mrs. Reynolds) yet 8/9 characters all got their moments. (River's scene was cut for time.)

Sure, I agree that all the characters can't all have their own special story within the episode, and naturally some characters will get more screentime than the rest in a given episode. But SGA is horrible at it, for one because who gets the most screentime never changes. It's always either Sheppard or McKay with Keller in tow behind them, no matter what. Teyla and Ronon usually only get one 'token' episode per season and that's all the showtime they get before things go back to the normal setup.

As for who drives the story, it's usually set off by a 3rd Party and driven by John or Rodney. (Or Teyla or Ronon in their aforementioned 'token' episodes.) Elizabeth only got two episodes that were really driven by her, The Real World and Before I Sleep. Carson only really got PTW in S1.

Maybe I'm too harsh by stack M&M up to my standards, which plenty of writers achieve, however. But forget balance of screentime/etcc to them. It left the room a long time ago -- if it was ever there.

EDIT: crazedwraith explained it and gave examples perfectly.

[fumblesmcstupid]

IMO I think that they don't know how to do balance:

Episodes that have Keller in the Spotlight:

The Seed (yes she was in a coma! big deal it was still MOSTLY about her!)
The Shrine (it might have been about Rodney..but she turned it to be about her)
Tracker (Rodney and Ronon , I think were there.... maybe they were pod people)
First Contact (following Ronon, talking with Todd)
The Lost Tribe (Cheerleader Keller)
Brain Storm
Identity
Infection ( I am guessing that it will some how spotlight her as well)

Idk about Vegas or EATG

Teyla has the Queen
Ronon has Broken Ties
Sheppard has Vegas
Rodney (D.V)
Woolsey (Remnants)

The Shrine like I said was supposed to be about Rodney...but it ended up being about Keller. As for Brain Storm that was Gero's dream come true for him as a McKay/Keller fan.

So, with the cast of SGA being JF, DH, RL, JM, RP and JS. So why is it that JS had so many episodes with her as the lead?

If the show was balanced (IMO) Identity Could have been about Teyla or Ronon or Sheppard but no!One more instance of Keller getting into a dumb situation and the good guys have to come in a rescue her!

[Crazedwraith]

The Seed was certainly isn't a Keller episode. She's a comatose for the majority.

Neither are First Contact/The Lost Tribe. Keller has a plot but so do most of the other characters: Daniel & McKay/Sheppard/Keller,Woolsey & Ronon, only Teyla really got sidelined with command of Atlantis.

In fact that two parter is pretty much the ideal of what I was trying to say. All the characters are split up, but they all still have a part to play.

[Reiko]

I'd have to agree on The Seed; it wasn't really a Keller episode as though much of the plot centered around her she was comatose and thus merely a plot device.

And again -- Teyla my always be there having screentime, but how much of that time is actually spent doing something other than shooting the random alien or holding up the walls?

[Lythisrose]

I'd have to agree on The Seed; it wasn't really a Keller episode as though much of the plot centered around her she was comatose and thus merely a plot device.

And again -- Teyla my always be there having screentime, but how much of that time is actually spent doing something other than shooting the random alien or holding up the walls?

I'd kind of say the same thing about Sheppard this season.
I mean, even in Whispers, where he was the only lead present, he was basically just there in a role anyone could have played, nothing new or exciting to advance his character. It's a shame. IMO Teyla, Ronon and Shep haven't really had alot of "meat" to dig their teeth into this season, with rare exceptions.

[Mitchell82]

We proved with examples, that it can be done, with a modium of clever writing. Not all characters are going to have major parts in all episodes but that doesn't mean they shouldn't at least appear and it doesn't mean they should never have episodes that focus on them ala Ronon or Teyla.

You gave examples of IMHO crap shows. I know many consider JW a god and well I don't. His writing style as well as producing and directing are a joke. Ronon and Teyla have both had their episodes this season and have only had a small number of eps they weren't in. I don't believe that in order to be a good show that every single character must be in every ep as long as their is a good balance and IMO we have just that.

And splitting them up doesn't have to mean they disappear. Take Farscape as another example. The five main characters (six if you include pilot, and even more after late season 1) are always splitting up but the plot always shows what each little group is doing.

As does Atlantis IMO. But since this has turned into another gripe thread and we obviously won't agree I will leave you to your griping.

[fumblesmcstupid]

This is a question about a subject that has been bugging a lot of people lately! If you think that we are griping well, that is your right.

I for one DO see the lack of giving each character something to do. Zalenka didn't say a word in the Shrine, but he was still there in a brief 2 second scene!

Just give them something to do or say! don't exclude a character or favor another!

[silvercomet]

I disagree. I understand that people want to see every character in every ep but that can't be done. In order to develop characters well you need to split them up from time to time.

I don't understand why it should be such a problem. There are many other shows which are able to do a good balance with so many characters. SGA can't even manage the 4 team-members. I'm not against episodes which focus on one or two characters. But SGA isn't a one-man (or one-woman) show. I want to see the others as well. I want to see development and quality, not just an appearance from a character. IMO the writing hasn't done a good balance in season 5. They did this better in other seasons.

Compared with other shows: maybe one reason is, that in SGA a development is too often limited to one episode. That's too much and too focused. After that episode we hardly see something about the development or the effects anymore. In other shows the development happens over a time period (several episodes). I would say with such an approach it would be easier to balance all the characters well and fair.

[Lahela]

Ronon and Teyla have both had their episodes this season and have only had a small number of eps they weren't in. I don't believe that in order to be a good show that every single character must be in every ep as long as their is a good balance and IMO we have just that.

Actually, Ronon is in fewer eps this season than any of his four seasons on the show, apart from S2 which has one fewer but given that he didn't join the cast until episode 3 that's not surprising.

Hardly what I'd call "balance".

[FallenAngelII]

ohhhhhh

like Teyla , Ronon, Zalenka, Lorne and everyone who is NOT....... Keller?

Who is this Lorne you speak of?

Seriously, he's just randomly missing for most of this season.

[bluealien]

Who is this Lorne you speak of?

Seriously, he's just randomly missing for most of this season.

Like Teyla...

[jenks]

Who is this Lorne you speak of?

Seriously, he's just randomly missing for most of this season.

Out of 16 episodes he's been in 5 of them already, he was only in 6 episodes in the whole of season 3.