S5: Critique and Contemplations

[Southern Red]

What was everyone's take on Deadalus Variations? I loved how it was a full team episode, with some great special effects and a cool plot. Wish those aliens would of came back later in the season. DV was an example of SGA reaching some it's potential, imo.

Are you telling us it's time to move on, Brian? *teases*

I liked DV but once again they dumbed Ronon down too much. On the one hand, Teyla was taking lessons from Marks and learning all sorts of useful things. Yet Ronon was made to look like a cave man without the patience to even learn how to push a few buttons.

I also like the new big bad and wish we could have seen more.

I was hoping to see the AU's from the standpoint of the city. That part was a huge copout. Something more on the line of Vegas or even M&MM would have been good. It could have switched to the city and shown us the differences in the expedition.

[Linda06]

ITA on all this, and with both you and Linda on the John issue. Keller should have sedated him. It made both her and Carter look like the weak little female up against the strong male. Hated that a lot.

That said, I'll add that Carter looked more like a leader in S&R than all of S4. I liked the way she ran the rescue efforts. Oh, and Lorne was just love as always. This made me wish we had seen more of him with Rodney.

mmmmmm my Lorney *sigh* um anywho, what was I gonna say.......

Oh yeah. now I love Carter, but she was mishandled pretty badly in S4. If they wanted her on the show, at least use her at some point This isn't quite the Carter I knew on SG-1 The Carter in S&R was more like the Carter I loved

What was everyone's take on Deadalus Variations? I loved how it was a full team episode, with some great special effects and a cool plot. Wish those aliens would of came back later in the season. DV was an example of SGA reaching some it's potential, imo.

Dog with no breeks, we're going through the eps in order one by one

That being said, I liked DV....It was a good ol'l fashioned team ep. And it didn't get turned into the McShep show And Teyla and Rodney FINALLY had some decent scenes together where they were working together side by side and helping each other.

[Linda06]

But their are rules about these kind of things. When Teyla joined the expedition did she not agree to follow the IOA protocols about conducting business?

Not that I recall, but that doesn't say much

[Killdeer]

She should have stood up to that more than she did. Maybe the writers didn't want an independent female , one that could think for herself.

The writers' issues in dealing with Teyla are extensive. There were a lot of opportunities there for some interesting development and conflict, but...these writers have always seemed to have trouble writing men and women in conflict with each other (or women at all but there's another thread discussing that ). Instead, they seemed content to have Teyla for the most part just passively following John around the galaxy.

This is fun....Having a nice friendly debate and sometimes agreeing and disagreeing

Agreed.

[Killdeer]

Daedalus Variations!! What happened to The Seed and Broken Ties?

Umm, just off the top of my head, my assessment would be, technically correct but rather emotionless.

What I mean is....technically it had all the things that one would think would make a great team episode. But the vibes were all wrong in how the team was treating each other. John and Rodney were snarking at each other like they were back in S2, and Ronon seemed awfully sullen, even with Teyla. It's not a bad episode - in fact IMO it's one of the better ones of the season. But the character interaction seemed really off to me for some reason.

[Killdeer]

I liked DV but once again they dumbed Ronon down too much. On the one hand, Teyla was taking lessons from Marks and learning all sorts of useful things. Yet Ronon was made to look like a cave man without the patience to even learn how to push a few buttons.

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about that. Good for Teyla (which raised my hopes that she might be more involved this season-no such luck), but not so good for Ronon. This was a huge step back for him.

I also like the new big bad and wish we could have seen more.

Agreed - they were interesting.

I was hoping to see the AU's from the standpoint of the city. That part was a huge copout. Something more on the line of Vegas or even M&MM would have been good. It could have switched to the city and shown us the differences in the expedition.

Yes. I love AUs, but part of the fun is seeing the differences, and we only got a couple of tiny tantalizing glimpses. That was disappointing.

[Rac80]

Yes she is important to them but it was her decision to remain with them and to help them. John can't order her around like he can with his subordinates. She follows him and stays with them because she wants to and because she feels it's the only chance they have against the wraith. If she wanted to leave they couldn't stop her, if she wanted go go out on her own they couldn't top her (I think it was The Kindred she implied this to Carter) because in the end she doesn't answer to them.

But one thing I never understood. Some people slated Teyla for not telling him about the pregnancy and still going out on missions, but when it comes to John going on a mission seriously injured and bleeding quite heavily and not only putting his life, but the lives of Ronon, Rodney, Teyla and that of her unborn child in serious danger, he is the dashing hero because he would do anything to save "his" people, even die for them, others call it heroic....I call it idiotic and very stupid, and Keller andCarter were just as bad letting him go in the first place. They should have handcuffed him to the bed if they had to Sometimes the double standards is mindboggling *shakes head*



She'd still be going off world and every time she goes off world there's a risk!

I agree.. the double standard is unfathomable... I get so sick of the "little woman" syndrome!

another (unrelated comment-)
who is to say that IOA protocols are the same as military protocols?

[Linda06]

The writers' issues in dealing with Teyla are extensive. There were a lot of opportunities there for some interesting development and conflict, but...these writers have always seemed to have trouble writing men and women in conflict with each other (or women at all but there's another thread discussing that ). Instead, they seemed content to have Teyla for the most part just passively following John around the galaxy.

Oh don't get me started on the writing for Teyla

I know this is a bit off topic but I just have to mention it Now in Suspicion there was a perfect opportunity to have some good conflict moments, I mean the pesky humans accused the Athosians of helping the wraith so to speak, this is the ultimate insult to the Athosians, I would have liked to have seen Teyla struggle more with the decision of whether it was indeed a good idea to stay and help the earthlings, for me she forgave them far too easily after what they accused her and her people of. At the time I didn't see it but looking back it's more clear. Just one in a long line of failings where Teyla was concerned

Daedalus Variations!! What happened to The Seed and Broken Ties?

Umm, just off the top of my head, my assessment would be, technically correct but rather emotionless.

What I mean is....technically it had all the things that one would think would make a great team episode. But the vibes were all wrong in how the team was treating each other. John and Rodney were snarking at each other like they were back in S2, and Ronon seemed awfully sullen, even with Teyla. It's not a bad episode - in fact IMO it's one of the better ones of the season. But the character interaction seemed really off to me for some reason.

Well that can be said for most of S5

[Linda06]

I agree.. the double standard is unfathomable... I get so sick of the "little woman" syndrome!

another (unrelated comment-)
who is to say that IOA protocols are the same as military protocols?

I thought the IOA had their own agenda

[jelgate]

another (unrelated comment-)
who is to say that IOA protocols are the same as military protocols?

Who is to say they are? But given the huge military presence on Atlantis its only logical to think that some military protocols are IOA protocols. Otherwise I doubt the IOA would have the military suppport.

[Rac80]

Who is to say they are? But given the huge military presence on Atlantis its only logical to think that some military protocols are IOA protocols. Otherwise I doubt the IOA would have the military suppport.

the military has no choice... the old golden rule you know... "he who pays the gold makes the rules" ans since the IOA is footing most of the bill for the stargate program these days (season 9 of SG1) they get to meddle...and frequently do.

[Briangate78]

Are you telling us it's time to move on, Brian? *teases*

LOL, yeah you called me out, was getting a little bored with the S&R discussion. I also like AU eps. Always been interesting to me.

Daedalus Variations!! What happened to The Seed and Broken Ties?

Wasn't totally impressed with those two. lol. DV was great though.

[Cautious Explorer]

Daedalus Variations!! What happened to The Seed and Broken Ties?

Umm, just off the top of my head, my assessment would be, technically correct but rather emotionless.

What I mean is....technically it had all the things that one would think would make a great team episode. But the vibes were all wrong in how the team was treating each other. John and Rodney were snarking at each other like they were back in S2, and Ronon seemed awfully sullen, even with Teyla. It's not a bad episode - in fact IMO it's one of the better ones of the season. But the character interaction seemed really off to me for some reason.

Yes. I think the writer for this one wasn't used to SGA. It felt like a generic space episode written for any random team of four with just a little tweaking here and there to fit a vague definition of our SGA team. As if the writer based his understanding of the team on some sort of cliff notes.

I enjoyed the team being all together, but the team feel wasn't right. They seemed pretty cold around each other -- like strangers.

[Lahela]

Can we not discuss the season in order, as was originally suggested?

[KatG]

Can we not discuss the season in order, as was originally suggested?

Yes we can.

"The Seed"

Your thoughts please?