S5: Critique and Contemplations

[Thunder Hawk]

And before she admitted the pregnancy, he was pretty short with her when she requested to go to the infirmary, telling her to "shake it off." Get over it, basically. Not exactly the reaction I would expect from a man in love.

i hate that scene with a passion "shake it off" sheesh why not knock her down again for good measure. shep IMO being so cruel to her.

[jelgate]

And before she admitted the pregnancy, he was pretty brusque with her when she requested to go to the infirmary, telling her to "shake it off." Get over it, basically. Not exactly the reaction I would expect from a man in love.

I'm not even going to touch the Sheyla angle. It would lead to a mob campaign. But if you consider what he thought it would be no big deal. Under normal circumstance (ie a non-pregnant Teyla) being stunned is virturally harmless to a human. So shake off makes sense from his POV

[Cautious Explorer]

I'm not even going to touch the Sheyla angle. It would lead to a mob campaign. But if you consider what he thought it would be no big deal. Under normal circumstance (ie a non-pregnant Teyla) being stunned is virturally harmless to a human. So shake off makes sense from his POV

I agree. They've all been stunned before and they've all shaken it off before. I don't know why he should respect her abilities as a warrior any less because he had feelings for her, whether it's friendship or something more.

I thought he was upset for a variety of reasons. One reason being that a member of his team had been hiding things from him. I can see that hurting on both a professional and a personal level.

[Killdeer]

I thought he was upset for a variety of reasons. One reason being that a member of his team had been hiding things from him. I can see that hurting on both a professional and a personal level.

I agree with that.

[Ncc-72452]

I can't really explain why, but I felt that S&R was a weak episode, especially for a season opener. Things felt way too drawn out with a very slow pace and a lot of leaps of faith for the fans. We started with our people buried, which I agree led to some nice character moments, but in the end it took too long to dig them out. I also felt that the Teyla and Sheppard dinner sequence was quite odd. If he was fantasizing about getting her back safe and sound, why wouldn't he be imagining them in a familiar setting doing familiar things? (stick practice, lunch with team, briefing)

To echo many of the other postings, I too felt that him charging off while wounded was not only a tired cliche, but one of the stupidest things I've ever seen Sheppard do. He's military, and he should realize that he would be a liability to his team on the mission. In fact, watching the episode, I felt there was nothing there that he was needed for that the others or a replacement like Lorne couldn't have done.

Other inconsistencies which I didn't like were how a Wraith cruiser was able to so easily damage the Daedalus. I didn't like how easily Carter gave in to Sheppard. I've seen her in SG-1 display much more backbone, and she would have no problem removing him from active duty status because of his injury. She's the full bird colonel, and he's HER lieutenant colonel. Michael's sudden ability to use Ancient technology was, well, sudden. The female team member that fired an assault rifle in such a way that would seriously hurt her wrist was small but noticeable. The sudden realization of Athos being a matriarchal society was for me, startling. We (or at least I) never really understand the significance of TJ to Michael's plans. And finally, Carter was fired for doing too good a job. Ummm... What?

I did enjoy Teyla giving birth, and Rodney delivering the baby. I liked that Teyla needed to be carried because she had just been in labor. I LOVED seeing Ford again, if just for an instant. As usual, the special effects were... well... special, and I enjoyed them.

All in all, I ended this episode with a sense of trepidation about the coming season, but I kept watching and enjoyed several of the episodes to come.

[Linda06]

I think his reaction was completely understandable. He's just realized he's been putting a pregnant woman in harm's way for the last two months. And no matter how Teyla sees herself in relation to John's command, I think it's pretty plain that he considers her to be under his command. He's probably thinking "what if I'd killed her baby?" I'm not surprised that he got angry.

It was understandable from a humans point of view, but Teyla is an Athosian from a completely different galaxy who is a leader of her people and she is neither part of the exhibition or a subordinate under John. What was it she said again? Something about pregnant Athosian woman still doing everything they done before right up till they give birth?

Sheppard didn't put her at risk, it was Teyla's decision and her's alone. What if Shep and the rest of the expedition weren't there, she'd still have went out and done things she would normally been doing anyway.

It's about time these pesky milkyway humans stopped acting so arrogant and superior

[Southern Red]

It was understandable from a humans point of view, but Teyla is an Athosian from a completely different galaxy who is a leader of her people and she is neither part of the exhibition or a subordinate under John. What was it she said again? Something about pregnant Athosian woman still doing everything they done before right up till they give birth?

Sheppard didn't put her at risk, it was Teyla's decision and her's alone. What if Shep and the rest of the expedition weren't there, she'd still have went out and done things she would normally been doing anyway.

It's about time these pesky milkyway humans stopped being so arrogant and superior

Considering that Teyla had been living on Atlantis, following their protocol and working as a member of Sheppard's team of which he is the leader, I'd say she is both a part of the exhibition and a subordinate of John's. She follows his orders on missions and takes orders from the leader of the city when she's needed for a task. She has even been left in charge of the city at times. I don't think they'd do that with someone who isn't considered a vital part of the group with the knowledge and training to handle any exigencies.

A lot of Earth women do everything they usually do right up until birth, but it was unfair to John not to have all the facts he needed when going into a dangerous situation. Plus, if they were indeed friends, why not tell him? He did put her at risk because as leader of the team he decides who does what and his ignorance of the situation made his decision different than if he had been cognizant of all the facts. Anyone in a military situation knows you don't withhold information from your team leader.

[Killdeer]

What if Shep and the rest of the expedition weren't there, she'd still have went out and done things she would normally been doing anyway.

But she wouldn't have been running around on dangerous missions where the chances of losing the baby are substantially higher than if she'd just been living with her people on New Athos. Yeah, they're at risk when the Wraith come to cull. But they're not knowingly walking into high-risk situations on a regular basis.

[Linda06]

Considering that Teyla had been living on Atlantis, following their protocol and working as a member of Sheppard's team of which he is the leader, I'd say she is both a part of the exhibition and a subordinate of John's. She follows his orders on missions and takes orders from the leader of the city when she's needed for a task. She has even been left in charge of the city at times. I don't think they'd do that with someone who isn't considered a vital part of the group with the knowledge and training to handle any exigencies.

A lot of Earth women do everything they usually do right up until birth, but it was unfair to John not to have all the facts he needed when going into a dangerous situation. Plus, if they were indeed friends, why not tell him? He did put her at risk because as leader of the team he decides who does what and his ignorance of the situation made his decision different than if he had been cognizant of all the facts. Anyone in a military situation knows you don't withhold information from your team leader.

Yes she is important to them but it was her decision to remain with them and to help them. John can't order her around like he can with his subordinates. She follows him and stays with them because she wants to and because she feels it's the only chance they have against the wraith. If she wanted to leave they couldn't stop her, if she wanted go go out on her own they couldn't top her (I think it was The Kindred she implied this to Carter) because in the end she doesn't answer to them.

But one thing I never understood. Some people slated Teyla for not telling him about the pregnancy and still going out on missions, but when it comes to John going on a mission seriously injured and bleeding quite heavily and not only putting his life, but the lives of Ronon, Rodney, Teyla and that of her unborn child in serious danger, he is the dashing hero because he would do anything to save "his" people, even die for them, others call it heroic....I call it idiotic and very stupid, and Keller andCarter were just as bad letting him go in the first place. They should have handcuffed him to the bed if they had to Sometimes the double standards is mindboggling *shakes head*

But she wouldn't have been running around on dangerous missions where the chances of losing the baby are substantially higher than if she'd just been living with her people on New Athos. Yeah, they're at risk when the Wraith come to cull. But they're not knowingly walking into high-risk situations on a regular basis.

She'd still be going off world and every time she goes off world there's a risk!

[Killdeer]

To echo many of the other postings, I too felt that him charging off while wounded was not only a tired cliche, but one of the stupidest things I've ever seen Sheppard do. He's military, and he should realize that he would be a liability to his team on the mission. In fact, watching the episode, I felt there was nothing there that he was needed for that the others or a replacement like Lorne couldn't have done.

I completely agree for the most part. The only thing I'm not sure about is whether or not anyone else could have flown the wraith dart out (although Michael being able to steal the jumper is an unexplained plot contrivance all by itself). However, Sheppard is not psychic. He had no way of knowing going in that he would have to fly a Wraith dart out, so yeah, his insistence on going along is really foolish. Lorne could have flown the jumper - even Rodney could have flown the jumper.

I suppose you could say that with all the blood loss, he wasn't thinking straight, and that's possible. But Carter has no such excuse, unfortunately. She should have overridden him and not allowed any argument about it, just have ordered a couple of men to haul him back to the infirmary and make sure he stayed there this time.

Yes she is important to them but it was her decision to remain with them and to help them. John can't order her around like he can with his subordinates.

Well maybe he shouldn't order her around and treat her like a subordinate (and I would likely agree with that), but he certainly does do it. And that goes back even to S1 - I'm thinking of the way he yelled at her for punching Bates. The problem is that she allows him to get away with it - she always has. She might fuss about it a little, but in the end, she always backs down.

She follows him and stays with them because she wants to and because she feels it's the only chance they have against the wraith. If she wanted to leave they couldn't stop her, if she wanted go go out on her own they couldn't top her (I think it was The Kindred she implied this to Carter) because in the end she doesn't answer to them.

This is true. But I think there is a fundamental breakdown between how Teyla sees her own position on the team and in the expedition, and the way John sees it. Teyla sees herself as an independent agent. I think there were even a few things back in S2 that signaled that. John, on the other hand, I think would completely disagree, especially as it concerns the team.

It's really an issue the writers should have had them confront and deal with long before now.

But one thing I never understood. Some people slated Teyla for not telling him about the pregnancy and still going out on missions, but when it comes to John going on a mission seriously injured and bleeding quite heavily and not only putting his life, but the lives of Ronon, Rodney, Teyla and that of her unborn child in serious danger, he is the dashing hero because he would do anything to save "his" people, even die for them, others call it heroic....I call it idiotic and very stupid, and Keller andCarter were just as bad letting him go in the first place. They should have handcuffed him to the bed if they had to Sometimes the double standards is mindboggling *shakes head*

Well, seeing as how I agree with you on what John did, you won't get an argument from me on that one.

She'd still be going off world and every time she goes off world there's a risk!

We might have to agree to disagree on this one. It's true that everything has risks, but I don't think all risks are equal. And I would say that being on a frontline combat team involves a far higher degree of risk than going on peaceful trading missions.

[Southern Red]

I completely agree for the most part. The only thing I'm not sure about is whether or not anyone else could have flown the wraith dart out (although Michael being able to steal the jumper is an unexplained plot contrivance all by itself). However, Sheppard is not psychic. He had no way of knowing going in that he would have to fly a Wraith dart out, so yeah, his insistence on going along is really foolish. Lorne could have flown the jumper - even Rodney could have flown the jumper.

I suppose you could say that with all the blood loss, he wasn't thinking straight, and that's possible. But Carter has no such excuse, unfortunately. She should have overridden him and not allowed any argument about it, just have ordered a couple of men to haul him back to the infirmary and make sure he stayed there this time.



Well maybe he shouldn't order her around and treat her like a subordinate (and I would likely agree with that), but he certainly does do it. And that goes back even to S1 - I'm thinking of the way he yelled at her for punching Bates. The problem is that she allows him to get away with it - she always has. She might fuss about it a little, but in the end, she always backs down.



This is true. But I think there is a fundamental breakdown between how Teyla sees her own position on the team and in the expedition, and the way John sees it. Teyla sees herself as an independent agent. I think there were even a few things back in S2 that signaled that. John, on the other hand, I think would completely disagree, especially as it concerns the team.

It's really an issue the writers should have had them confront and deal with long before now.



Well, seeing as how I agree with you on what John did, you won't get an argument from me on that one.



We might have to agree to disagree on this one. It's true that everything has risks, but I don't think all risks are equal. And I would say that being on a frontline combat team involves a far higher degree of risk than going on peaceful trading missions.

ITA on all this, and with both you and Linda on the John issue. Keller should have sedated him. It made both her and Carter look like the weak little female up against the strong male. Hated that a lot.

That said, I'll add that Carter looked more like a leader in S&R than all of S4. I liked the way she ran the rescue efforts. Oh, and Lorne was just love as always. This made me wish we had seen more of him with Rodney.

[Briangate78]

What was everyone's take on Deadalus Variations? I loved how it was a full team episode, with some great special effects and a cool plot. Wish those aliens would of came back later in the season. DV was an example of SGA reaching some it's potential, imo.

[Killdeer]

That said, I'll add that Carter looked more like a leader in S&R than all of S4. I liked the way she ran the rescue efforts.

Agreed. Except for the issue of letting John go, Carter was great in S&R.

[Linda06]

Well maybe he shouldn't order her around and treat her like a subordinate (and I would likely agree with that), but he certainly does do it. And that goes back even to S1 - I'm thinking of the way he yelled at her for punching Bates. The problem is that she allows him to get away with it - she always has. She might fuss about it a little, but in the end, she always backs down.

She should have stood up to that more than she did. Maybe the writers didn't want an independent female , one that could think for herself. The way they've treated Teyla over the years, all she is now is a mother that goes around bumping bambino up and down through Atlantis, and blends into the walls

This is true. But I think there is a fundamental breakdown between how Teyla sees her own position on the team and in the expedition, and the way John sees it. Teyla sees herself as an independent agent. I think there were even a few things back in S2 that signaled that. John, on the other hand, I think would completely disagree, especially as it concerns the team.

It's really an issue the writers should have had them confront and deal with long before now.

Maybe it's the "we're superior than you" syndrome so we're always right

The writers have made a lot of glaring mistakes and ommisions over the years so this is just one in a long line

Well, seeing as how I agree with you on what John did, you won't get an argument from me on that one.

This is fun....Having a nice friendly debate and sometimes agreeing and disagreeing

We might have to agree to disagree on this one. It's true that everything has risks, but I don't think all risks are equal. And I would say that being on a frontline combat team involves a far higher degree of risk than going on peaceful trading missions.

Yes that's true, the risks are different, sometimes they'll be no risk and sometimes they'll be a great risk going through the wormhole but until she did go through she wouldn't know what kind of risk they'd be.

[jelgate]

She should have stood up to that more than she did. Maybe the writers didn't want an independent female , one that could think for herself. The way they've treated Teyla over the years, all she is now is a mother that goes around bumping bambino up and down through Atlantis, and blends into the walls

But their are rules about these kind of things. When Teyla joined the expedition did she not agree to follow the IOA protocols about conducting business?