S5: Critique and Contemplations

[Linda06]

I guess I'd managed to block that from my memory, but now I remember it, it was the lowest point of the ep for me

I loved the earlier scenes though, with Shep/Ronon, McKay/Lorne

I'm sorry for reminding you

I adored the Ronon/Shep buddy moments in this one. The under the rubble scenes were very well played.

The whole series was one reckless Shep action after another, but this one was much worse. It managed also to make Carter and Keller look like subordinates to the big bad hero.

I liked the birth scene and thought RL and DH did a fine job. Rodney didn't annoy me as much as he usually does.

If I didn't know it was written by Martin Gero, I'd think this was penned by someone who knows very little about what was about to happen for the rest of the season. Yes, I'm referring to that beginning shippy scene. Why do that, get the shippers all excited and then just give it a big "nevermind"? Poor planning, but we're used to that. Liked seeing Ford though. I think the scene would have made more sense if the whole team had been having a celebratory dinner together. The whole Teyla is expecting another man's child aspect was just too Grey's Anatomy for me.

Ain't that the truth You'd think we'd learn by now after the way they've gave us hope in one hand then ripped our hearts out when we weren't looking with the other hand They really love messing with our heads I don't know why they even have scenes like this if they never had any intention of going anywhere with it Which is why now, when a new show starts I am adamant i'm never gonna ship anyone ever again

[Killdeer]

Not only did he risk his own life, but he also risked Rodney's and Ronon's life, not to mention Teyla's and also her unborn child. It was a stupid decision by him and a very reckless one too. Keller and Carter were not much better by letting him go. What would have happened if he collapsed, not only would Ronon and Rodney be left to try to rescue Teyla, which would be hard enough to acomplish but they'd have to try get Shep out too. Very careless indeed

It's the same thing that I don't like to see in fanfic. Someone so badly injured that they should be in ICU, instead being able to rescue everybody and save the day. I mean I don't expect reality, after all it is a TV show, but I do expect the plot to be realistic enough that I can suspend belief and go along with it, rather than sitting there saying "Oh come on now, not in a million years".

Exactly!!

[Skydiver]

why couldn't they have named teh child jodan....John, Rodney, Ronan

As in named him after all the team

Yeah, the 'damsel naming her child after the hero' cliche had me rolling my eyes.

but they do tend to get hung up on images and cliches and can't seem to find their way out of them

and when they do that it becomes predictable and predictable is boring (although it is fun to be in a chat room and bet someone and guess the ending and get it right

[Southern Red]

I'm sorry for reminding you



Ain't that the truth You'd think we'd learn by now after the way they've gave us hope in one hand then ripped our hearts out when we weren't looking with the other hand They really love messing with our heads I don't know why they even have scenes like this if they never had any intention of going anywhere with it Which is why now, when a new show starts I am adamant i'm never gonna ship anyone ever again

*laughs hysterically* I said the same thing. Then I saw Castle. LOL

why couldn't they have named teh child jodan....John, Rodney, Ronan

As in named him after all the team

Yeah, the 'damsel naming her child after the hero' cliche had me rolling my eyes.

but they do tend to get hung up on images and cliches and can't seem to find their way out of them

and when they do that it becomes predictable and predictable is boring (although it is fun to be in a chat room and bet someone and guess the ending and get it right

I always said the naming was because they realized Tagan John was just wrong in so many ways. But why couldn't they just say that? Or name the dang kid Sue.

[Linda06]

*laughs hysterically* I said the same thing. Then I saw Castle. LOL

hehe, yeah we'll see how long I last before I lose the battle

[Pandora's_Box]

I always said the naming was because they realized Tagan John was just wrong in so many ways. But why couldn't they just say that? Or name the dang kid Sue.

Or made the kid female.

[Pandora's_Box]

Or Elizabeth. I don't think Ford is the only loss that haunts him.

Sheppard is the type of character who will carry the weight of those burdens always and for ever. And he's the type of guy will hold himself responsible for every death he thinks he could have somehow prevented.

Now that I think about it, they all seem to be like that (McKay, Ronon, Teyla) to a certain extent. We know McKay is because through comments he's made about Grodin, Weir, and the events of TLM. Ronon does as well given his deep-seeded hatred for the Wraith and his desire to avenge Sateda (but marginally less than Sheppard perhaps given that he's also a tad more pragmatic about it). Teyla ... I'm having a hard time getting a read on her in this case. I know she's wholly devoted to saving her people, but to bear the burden for every life lost? Maybe she and Ronon are just too used to losing people that they know if they were to do that, it would be the death of them?

Or I can chalk up not being sure about Teyla to the lack of focus on her character? Sure. I can do that.

[Killdeer]

They could have called him Aiden. It would have tied in nicely with Ford's appearance in the beginning.

Or I can chalk up not being sure about Teyla to the lack of focus on her character? Sure. I can do that.

That's the most likely option. But I also think you're right that Teyla and Ronon are more used to losing people.

[Falcon Horus]

They could have called him Aiden. It would have tied in nicely with Ford's appearance in the beginning.

There's a fanfic floating around the web - season 1, Ford/Teyla, where they loose Atlantis and Teyla has a son called Aiden.

[Crazedwraith]

In regards to S&R, I'd have to disagree on the subject of the dream sequence for a couple of reasons; One there have been other indications John likes Teyla; the most obvious one that comes to my mind is him throwing a hissy fit when she announces she's pregnant.

And second I agree that the scene is totally out of place in SG:A but I thought that that was a positive feature for me, its sets up the certain unreal feeling for the whole scene and sets up the whole fact its a hallucination and tptb aren't actually flaking off the whole cliffhanger aspect of The Last Man. If that makes any sense.

Positives for this episode: Ford. Negatives: Not enough Ford, and the silly naming of the baby and Micheal being able to fly puddle jumpers with zero foreshadowing that I recall. (he was always interested in wraith/human blending as far as we know and not the ATA)

[Cautious Explorer]

I'd have to see this ep again to really review it but I remember that I really liked S&R, and that when I watched the first time, thought the season had great promise.
The team was involved and Shep was his usual semi-reckless self (although I thought the injury was glossed over a bit at the end - what can I say, I'm a whumper!). I liked that Ford was remembered and there was no McKeller ship in sight.
It had action and adventure, humor (I got a kick out of the birth scene) and all the characters participated a fair amount. The scene with Shep and the baby was awwwwwwwww!
I just wish the entire season had carried on in this fashion.

I agree with you. After season 4 I wasn't expecting much but S&R came as a nice surprise. There was actually team interaction, some very nice freindship moments between Ronon and John, and I loved the dream sequence.

I could have done without the bad timing for the birth and the predictable McKay delivers the baby while babbling madly and obsessing over his own issues moment, but at least Teyla was fairly strong throughout and all of the team had something to do.

I do think TPTB should have made up their minds about just how seriously Shep was injured. I like that Shep was determined to rescue Teyla no matter what. That's just how he is and I wouldn't have him any other way. The two people who should have been thinking more practically are the head of medicine who didn't have the authority to keep her patient in place and the city commander who stood aside while an injured subordinate risked his life on a mission. That made absolutely no sense.

I wasn't bothered by the fact that Teyla named her son after the man who was first in the expedition to befriend her, placed his trust in her and was a loyal friend to her for years. What did bother me was the sloppy writing that had Teyla naming her child Torren when her father's name was Tagan. (I don't care how JM tries to spin that one.)

All in all it was great to see the old mixture again: lots of team, action, a touch of humor and some great friendship moments. I only wish it would have lasted. As it was, S&R turned out to be a teaser for a season that wasn't to be.

In regards to S&R, I'd have to disagree on the subject of the dream sequence for a couple of reasons; One there have been other indications John likes Teyla; the most obvious one that comes to my mind is him throwing a hissy fit when she announces she's pregnant.

And second I agree that the scene is totally out of place in SG:A but I thought that that was a positive feature for me, its sets up the certain unreal feeling for the whole scene and sets up the whole fact its a hallucination and tptb aren't actually flaking off the whole cliffhanger aspect of The Last Man. If that makes any sense.

Positives for this episode: Ford. Negatives: Not enough Ford, and the silly naming of the baby and Micheal being able to fly puddle jumpers with zero foreshadowing that I recall. (he was always interested in wraith/human blending as far as we know and not the ATA)

Agreed about the dream sequence. I think there have been hints about how John feels for Teyla throughout the series. If some people prefer something different, that's up to them, but the hints and moments have been there all along IMO.

I'd forgotten about Michael's newfound ability to use Ancient tech. That was an annoyance, but I guess I was willing to overlook it because I got to have the team back together again.

[Killdeer]

the most obvious one that comes to my mind is him throwing a hissy fit when she announces she's pregnant.

He didn't have a hissy fit when she announced she was pregnant. He was obviously shocked, but he didn't get angry until he found out how long she'd known and been keeping it from him, at which point, yes, he had a fit. And later when Carter asks him who the father is, he looks a little startled when he looks at her and replies "I never asked". As if that's the least of his worries.

And before she admitted the pregnancy, he was pretty impatient with her when she requested to go to the infirmary, telling her to "shake it off." Get over it, basically. Not exactly the reaction I would expect from a man in love. Not to mention that this is the same episode where he is doing some rather obvious (albeit awkward) flirting with Larrin. So no, I have a hard time seeing any evidence of any special feelings for Teyla here. I stand by what I said earlier - the dream sequence was totally out of the blue IMO.

[jelgate]

He didn't have a hissy fit when she announced she was pregnant. He was obviously shocked, but he didn't get angry until he found out how long she'd known and been keeping it from him, at which point, yes, he had a fit. And later when Carter asks him who the father is, he looks a little startled when he looks at her and replies "I never asked". As if that's the least of his worries.

Not to mention that this is the same episode where he is doing some rather obvious (albeit awkward) flirting with Larrin. So no, I have a hard time seeing any evidence of any special feelings for Teyla here. I stand by what I said earlier - the dream sequence was totally out of the blue IMO.

I would have been disappointed if Sheppherd had acted different when Teyla announced her pregency to the team. It seems kind of idiotic to be putting yourself in danger when you have a life inside you. Besides their are regulatons about these things

[fumblesmcstupid]

especially when dealing with people from other planets.

[Killdeer]

I would have been disappointed if Sheppherd had acted different when Teyla announced her pregency to the team. It seems kind of idiotic to be putting yourself in danger when you have a life inside you. Besides their are regulatons about these things

I think his reaction was completely understandable. He's just realized he's been putting a pregnant woman in harm's way for the last two months. And no matter how Teyla sees herself in relation to John's command, I think it's pretty plain that he considers her to be under his command. He's probably thinking "what if I'd killed her baby?" I'm not surprised that he got angry.