S5: Critique and Contemplations

[jelgate]

I thought the whole point of Ronon being a runner was the fact he was immune to the draining effect, or was it the enzyme?

So in Lost Boy's Ronon was able to get addicted as well, but if he was made a runner...

I some times wonder if the writers even bother paying attention to the previous episodes. They contradict themselves all the time. I am not trying to bash the writers. I am not.

It's just if they tell us Ronon was made a runner for seven years because of his ability to not be effected , then WHY change it?

They never said Ronon was immune. That was just fans interperting the scene wrong. If anything episodes like Lost Boys and Broken Ties prove Ronon is just suspectible to Wraith feedings. Ask yourself this? Why would the Wraith let someone immune to feedings run around where someone else could learn to duplicate the effects. Look at Posioning the Well. Teyla theorized that if the people could be immune to Wraith feedings the Wraith would just kill them

[Skydiver]

yeah, i'd forgotten that point. i remembered that ronon was a runner because he couldn't be used as food...and now he can?

Spoiler:

DEX: I was captured during a culling on my planet. I was taken to a
ship. A Wraith started to feed on me.

FLASHBACK. As the Wraith stands with its hand plunged into Dex's
chest, its _expression changes and it looks perturbed. It looks down
to its hand.

DEX: Something made him stop.

FLASHBACK. Dex has been taken out of the cocooning and three Wraith
are surrounding him. One plunges a syringe-like object into his
shoulder. He is lain face-down on a table and a Wraith takes a knife
and starts to cut into his back. Dex grimaces in agony.

DEX: They operated on me – put some sort of tracking device in my
back and released me.

FLASHBACK. Dex is running through a forest with a Wraith pursuing
him.

DEX: They hunted me.

FLASHBACK. The Wraith is looking around for Dex. Suddenly its foot
snags a trap which hoists it into the air feet first. Dex rushes in
and stabs it.

DEX: I hunted them back. I've been running ever since.

'something made him stop'

I just can't see a wraith, in the middle of a meal. just thinking 'dude, he's got spirit, let's chase him'

[Pandora's_Box]

yeah, i'd forgotten that point. i remembered that ronon was a runner because he couldn't be used as food...and now he can?

.....

I just can't see a wraith, in the middle of a meal. just thinking 'dude, he's got spirit, let's chase him'

Why not? What other reason could there be for making Runners? What other kind of people (if not the "spirited" ones) could possibly survive the torture long enough for it to be fun and worthwhile for the Wraith?

[Stormtrooper]

Why not? What other reason could there be for making Runners? What other kind of people (if not the "spirited" ones) could possibly survive the torture long enough for it to be fun and worthwhile for the Wraith?

Anyone. After all, the Wraith can bring people back to life due to the amazing "gift of life"

[Pandora's_Box]

Anyone. After all, the Wraith can bring people back to life due to the amazing "gift of life"

But would they run as hard as Ronon did or would they lay down and die? I'm willing to bet that most people after even a small fraction of the torture that Ronon went through would die psychologically. There are very few people who could push themselves to continue enduring what Ronon experienced.

[Rac80]

i felt this was a rip off of Threshold...but without all the cool back story. In threshold, teal'c was brainwashed by Apophis and the team tries to get through to him, finally removing his symbiote to 'kill' him and help him find the clarity of truth through his near death

but while threshold was a great story to find out about teal'c, this just seemed to be a pale immitation. the who's on whose side gambit was waay over played. I have a hard time seeing ronon break so easily.

it just seemed so cobbled together. like they pulled bits and pieces and tossed them into a bowl to try and tie up loose ends so they could stop dealing with them

I must agree with you. this seemed too hastily thrown together. Maybe the story they wrote originally (with ronon losing the dreads) would have been better, but this stunk!

I thought the whole point of Ronon being a runner was the fact he was immune to the draining effect, or was it the enzyme?

So in Lost Boy's Ronon was able to get addicted as well, but if he was made a runner...

I some times wonder if the writers even bother paying attention to the previous episodes. They contradict themselves all the time. I am not trying to bash the writers. I am not. It's just if they tell us Ronon was made a runner for seven years because of his ability to not be effected , then WHY change it?

you and me both there! there are soooo many examples of this!

yeah, i'd forgotten that point. i remembered that ronon was a runner because he couldn't be used as food...and now he can?

Spoiler:

DEX: I was captured during a culling on my planet. I was taken to a
ship. A Wraith started to feed on me.

FLASHBACK. As the Wraith stands with its hand plunged into Dex's
chest, its _expression changes and it looks perturbed. It looks down
to its hand.

DEX: Something made him stop.

FLASHBACK. Dex has been taken out of the cocooning and three Wraith
are surrounding him. One plunges a syringe-like object into his
shoulder. He is lain face-down on a table and a Wraith takes a knife
and starts to cut into his back. Dex grimaces in agony.

DEX: They operated on me – put some sort of tracking device in my
back and released me.

FLASHBACK. Dex is running through a forest with a Wraith pursuing
him.

DEX: They hunted me.

FLASHBACK. The Wraith is looking around for Dex. Suddenly its foot
snags a trap which hoists it into the air feet first. Dex rushes in
and stabs it.

DEX: I hunted them back. I've been running ever since.

'something made him stop'

I just can't see a wraith, in the middle of a meal. just thinking 'dude, he's got spirit, let's chase him'

yep, that was never adequately explained for me.

This episode was another missed opportunity... very rushed and incomplete feeling. i cannot see ronon ever becoming a wraith worshipper-- he would have killed himself first. The scenes of Ronon overcoming the addiction were not "gritty" enough for me. It all seemd as sky said -a pale imitation of threshold.

[Lythisrose]

If they really wanted to make this season darker, right from the beginning, then they should have had Sheppard kill Keller, during that bit when he pointed his gun at her, ready to kill her if necessary. It would've created a lot of angst for many characters if he would've been forced to pull the trigger--for Sheppard; for Ronon who initially failed to deliver the injection; for Woolsey who would've lost a senior staff member during his first week; for Carson who tried his best to save her; and for the rest of the expedition. If TBTB had chosen to bring Carson back full time, I think it would've been a very impactful way to change the ending of the episode, and have Sheppard fire. Well...except probably her death would have been remarked upon as little as the previous character deaths.

I thought the same thing, it would have been so much better for the drama and the characters. And hopefully there would have been more time for Teyla in the rest of the season.

And what can I say, the best part of the ep for me, was the ShepWreck. I just get guilty whumpy pleasure out of it. Despite how it was a bit soon after his previous impalement to get skewered again!

[jelgate]

I thought the same thing, it would have been so much better for the drama and the characters. And hopefully there would have been more time for Teyla in the rest of the season.

It didn't help Teyla that much in S2/S3. Having a main character be killed in that manner seems like a cheap cop out and is against everything that Stargare stood for. At least for me.

[Skydiver]

the writers do contradict canon a LOT.

teyla's wraith sensing comes and goes
we get teal'c going all jaffa revenge over the death of his mother...someone that's only ever gotten a line or two of dialogue over 10 years
since when could michael fly puddle jumpers?


and more examples that i can come up with at the moment

It's like they stopped keeping track of thier own canon and instead, make canon fit whatever story they happen to be writing at the moment

[Linda06]

the writers do contradict canon a LOT.

teyla's wraith sensing comes and goes
we get teal'c going all jaffa revenge over the death of his mother...someone that's only ever gotten a line or two of dialogue over 10 years
since when could michael fly puddle jumpers?


and more examples that i can come up with at the moment

It's like they stopped keeping track of thier own canon and instead, make canon fit whatever story they happen to be writing at the moment

Carson flying the city better than Shep He could barely keep one single drone under control, i'd like to know when he learned how to fly the city so efficiently

[Southern Red]

I thought the same thing, it would have been so much better for the drama and the characters. And hopefully there would have been more time for Teyla in the rest of the season.

And what can I say, the best part of the ep for me, was the ShepWreck. I just get guilty whumpy pleasure out of it. Despite how it was a bit soon after his previous impalement to get skewered again!

I don't mind Shep being the big hero usually. That's, after all, what his role is but the stupidity of his actions in S&R just boggled. I liked the ShepWreck too. Love that expression even though I'm technically not a whumper. It made sense here for him to do the rescue, everything else being as it was. However, it would have been nice to let Ronon do the saving for once.

John is my favorite character and as a result I think I look at him through rose-colored glasses a lot. There must have been ways to make him a hero and let other characters share the experience. Better writers could have accomplished so much with that character. Not to mention take better advantage of JF's strengths as an actor.

It didn't help Teyla that much in S2/S3. Having a main character be killed in that manner seems like a cheap cop out and is against everything that Stargare stood for. At least for me.

You mean like suspending the "no man left behind" rule when they feel like forgetting their leader ever existed?

the writers do contradict canon a LOT.

teyla's wraith sensing comes and goes
we get teal'c going all jaffa revenge over the death of his mother...someone that's only ever gotten a line or two of dialogue over 10 years
since when could michael fly puddle jumpers?


and more examples that i can come up with at the moment

It's like they stopped keeping track of thier own canon and instead, make canon fit whatever story they happen to be writing at the moment

Or change the characters to fit whatever they feel like writing at the moment or from writer to writer. Sorry to wander a bit off topic. I was just contemplating. *looks back at thread title*

[Stormtrooper]

Carson flying the city better than Shep He could barely keep one single drone under control, i'd like to know when he learned how to fly the city so efficiently

Clone Carson, which makes it even worse.

[Linda06]

Clone Carson, which makes it even worse.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that

[Skydiver]

yeah, clone carson.....shakes my head

ya know, just because this is scifi doesn't mean that characters can't stay dead.

it's one thing to have them pop in from an alternate universe and happen every so often,but the carson clone reset just was....so cheating.

the whole 'no one stays dead' has actually become quite comical.

I compare the gates and 'it's scifi no one has to stay dead' with bsg's tendancy to kill off characters. In bsg, it made sense for kara to come back, and i knew she was gonna come back.

however, she was one of how many main/regular characters that died in the course of the show??? and she was teh ONLY one to come back, and she only came back long enough to do her job and then was gone, leaving a mystery behind

The gate writers' habit of not killing people off and last second saves has pretty much killed (pun intended) the drama and tension in any life and death situation they write. cause it's not life and death...it's life and life

[Southern Red]

yeah, clone carson.....shakes my head

ya know, just because this is scifi doesn't mean that characters can't stay dead.

it's one thing to have them pop in from an alternate universe and happen every so often,but the carson clone reset just was....so cheating.

the whole 'no one stays dead' has actually become quite comical.

I compare the gates and 'it's scifi no one has to stay dead' with bsg's tendancy to kill off characters. In bsg, it made sense for kara to come back, and i knew she was gonna come back.

however, she was one of how many main/regular characters that died in the course of the show??? and she was teh ONLY one to come back, and she only came back long enough to do her job and then was gone, leaving a mystery behind

The gate writers' habit of not killing people off and last second saves has pretty much killed (pun intended) the drama and tension in any life and death situation they write. cause it's not life and death...it's life and life

I hear they're planning to fix all that in SGU. Nobody is safe....dun dun dun.