Ranks of Atlantis expedition?

[gateraid]

You're thinking about it the wrong way. The way the show is written, they are deliberately vague about the chain of command.

Think of it like this (in s5):

Woolsey = expedition head
Shep = military commander
Rodney = head of science
Keller = head of medicine
Teyla/Ronon = member of SGA1, allies

Woolsey is the supervisor of all departments.
Shep is his 2IC. In Woolseys absence, shep becomes acting expedition leader. The assumption is that if Woolsey & Shep got kawooshed by the stargate, the next highest ranking military officer (Major Lorne usually, unless the Deadalus or Apollo are around) would be in acting command until a new expedition head was appointed, be they military or civilian.

TPTB are deliberately vague as to the real chain of command, so as not to be hampered by actor availability and plot holes.

In the SGC, in the event of the commander's absence, leadership fell to the next highest ranking officer at that point. Although even then, they managed to be consistently inconsistent with regards to rank and seniority

[jamesgilfoyle]

I believe its something along the lines of;

• Expedition Leader / Base Commander
• Military Leader / Expedition 2ic
• Military 2ic
• Heads of Departments; probably with Science & Research and Medical departments suceeding the expedition command

Although on a number of occasions under Weir's Administration, Teyla was left in command of Atlantis. So, presumably she carries (or at least carried) some sort of Civilian seniority in terms of the rank structure and decision making... perhaps because of her experience as Athosian Leader? I would assume that is why Teyla shared Weirs red strip on uniform in Season 4. It remains to be seen if she still holds this 'position' under Woolseys administration, although during Sams administration we have no evidence for/against this. But i do seem to remember a time when Sam left Atlantis... cant quite remember when - perhaps just before she lost her command to Woolsey - i got the feeling again that Teyla was left in charge.

Which leads me to believe that she takes upon the role of 'Acting Expedition Leader' with the 'Military Leader' remaining 2ic - and perhaps she would take this in the event that Weir/Sam/Woolsey is incapacitated...

McKays thinking he takes seniority after Weir was probably his ego imho

Just my thoughts

[SgaIsBad]

The fact that Teyla has been in charge annoys me greatly. She just learned how to use computer systems in DV, so why in the world would they put her in charge. Not to mention that in real life do you expect the men in the military to follow the orders of an Amazonian women? The military personnel always should have control by default.

[jamesgilfoyle]

The fact that Teyla has been in charge annoys me greatly. She just learned how to use computer systems in DV, so why in the world would they put her in charge. Not to mention that in real life do you expect the men in the military to follow the orders of an Amazonian women? The military personnel always should have control by default.

Well; You don't need to be able to use computers to be a good decision maker And shes not Amazonian - and she is as much a part of the expedition as any other member, military or not...

[PG15]

The fact that Teyla has been in charge annoys me greatly. She just learned how to use computer systems in DV, so why in the world would they put her in charge.

Correction: she learned how to use the Daedalus computer system, which I assume is different from the Atlantis mainframe; we've seen her using computers on Atlantis a few times in the past already.

Not to mention that in real life do you expect the men in the military to follow the orders of an Amazonian women? The military personnel always should have control by default.

I wouldn't expect military personnel to follow the orders of a diplomat either, but then there's Weir. Besides, it's not like Teyla's some random primitive; she has been living in Atlantis for a year by the the time she was left in charge for the first time (The Intruder, I think), and so I'd think she was used to the technology, at least on a basic level (i.e. as much as any other non-scientist). Chances are, Lorne was the military commander at that time, while Teyla was acting administrator.

[Flyboy]

I wouldn't expect military personnel to follow the orders of a diplomat either, but then there's Weir.

President of the United States - US Military?

Prime Minister of Britain - British Armed Forces?

Besides, it's not like Teyla's some random primitive; she has been living in Atlantis for a year by the the time she was left in charge for the first time (The Intruder, I think), and so I'd think she was used to the technology, at least on a basic level (i.e. as much as any other non-scientist). Chances are, Lorne was the military commander at that time, while Teyla was acting administrator

However, I too disagree entirely with her having any authority. I'm gonna sound a little bit like Sergeant Bates here, but it's just not done, she's an alien commanding Earth forces. It's all very well having her as a respected team mate, she brings experience and knowledge to the table that would otherwise be lost, but would be getting her authority from nowhere but Weir.

[jamesgilfoyle]

Prime Minister of Britain - British Armed Forces?

Prime Minister of Britain doesnt have the power to declare war - he can just advise it. The Queen (Our Head of State) holds that power, and the PM cannot engage in a war without her consent. In the US the premier job and the Head of State powers have been combined

[Flyboy]

Yes... officially.

But realistically Her Majesty doesn't undertake the role of head of state that was once mandatory for someone in her position to perform. The Prime Minister acts very much like a President. The semi-Presidential system of France (President and PM) acts more like you'd expect a monarchy like ours to. And though on paper it is the Queen's role to declare war, that's really just a formality these days. The point that I was trying to make, is that in warfare, it is the civilian leadership, President or PM that sets the objectives and goals of the combat, what must be accomplished and what is not an option, the Generals then make it happen. Politicians decide the overall objective, Generals decide on a specific strategy, and squad leaders decide tactics. It always ends on a civvy.

[PG15]

President of the United States - US Military?

Prime Minister of Britain - British Armed Forces?

Dur. Forgot about that. Nevermind then.

Well ok, that settles the problem of the military forces listening to civilians.

However, I too disagree entirely with her having any authority. I'm gonna sound a little bit like Sergeant Bates here, but it's just not done, she's an alien commanding Earth forces.

I think I know why it's not done in the real world.

It's all very well having her as a respected team mate, she brings experience and knowledge to the table that would otherwise be lost, but would be getting her authority from nowhere but Weir.

If you mean that she's following Weir's general orders instead of making up her own ("Do these things while I'm gone" vs. "Ok, now you're in charge, do whatever you think you need to do"), then I agree, and I think that's what Teyla's been doing every time she was left "in charge".

[Flyboy]

I think I know why it's not done in the real world.

Or... IS IT!? *paranoid twitch*

If you mean that she's following Weir's general orders instead of making up her own ("Do these things while I'm gone" vs. "Ok, now you're in charge, do whatever you think you need to do"), then I agree, and I think that's what Teyla's been doing every time she was left "in charge".

What I mean, is that Sheppard has a right to command, it's an Earth expedition after all, and he has been put into power by several bodes, the IOA and the USAF. In the event of Weir's absence, he has that right and that background. Besides, it's easier for a military bod to take orders from someone they recognise as being one of them. Teyla, IS at the end of the day, an outsider, and always will be. The very fact that upon the expedition's withdrawel to earth in The Return, Teyla and Ronon stayed in PG indicates that they are in essence, just "hired help" not a career officer or diplomat who has worked to be put into that position.

[PG15]

Then what happens if Sheppard is also gone?

I suppose that's the whole point of this thread, isn't it?

[Flyboy]

Then what happens if Sheppard is also gone?

I suppose that's the whole point of this thread, isn't it?

Lorne. Always.

McKay has NO right to run the city if you ask me

[Opener]

If you mean that she's following Weir's general orders instead of making up her own ("Do these things while I'm gone" vs. "Ok, now you're in charge, do whatever you think you need to do"), then I agree, and I think that's what Teyla's been doing every time she was left "in charge".

What I mean, is that Sheppard has a right to command, it's an Earth expedition after all, and he has been put into power by several bodes, the IOA and the USAF. In the event of Weir's absence, he has that right and that background. Besides, it's easier for a military bod to take orders from someone they recognise as being one of them. Teyla, IS at the end of the day, an outsider, and always will be. The very fact that upon the expedition's withdrawel to earth in The Return, Teyla and Ronon stayed in PG indicates that they are in essence, just "hired help" not a career officer or diplomat who has worked to be put into that position.

Sure, and Teyla being left in charge during the Wraith alliance at the end of season three was just a formality.

She was left in charge for a reason, and that reason is that she knows the general state of things in the Pegasus galaxy(not counting what we found out in Ghost in the Machine; a majority of the races in PG wouldn't know that), besides being supremely capable physically, certainly moreso than Woolsey.

Look, all I'm saying, is that to dismiss her or Ronon asincapable of adjusting to a command position over an operation like Atlantis just because they're "mere civilians" is severely shortsighted.

[Jedi_Master_Bra'tac]

Military:
Woolsey>Shep>Caldwell/Ellis (if available)>Lorne

Caldwell and Ellis outrank Shep, they wouldn't be taking orders from him.

Then what happens if Sheppard is also gone?

I suppose that's the whole point of this thread, isn't it?

This happened in The Long Goodbye didn't it? Both Weir and Sheppard were compromised and Caldwell took control despite McKay's protests. Anyway, I wouldn't trust McKay in a position like that as far as I could throw him.

[Flyboy]

Caldwell and Ellis outrank She, they wouldn't be taking orders from him.



This happened in The Long Goodbye didn't it? Both Weir and Sheppard were compromised and Caldwell took control despite McKay's protests. Anyway, I wouldn't trust McKay in a position like that as far as I could throw him.

Ah but. Caldwell and Ellis aren't Atlantis personnel. Despite the fact that they outrank Sheppard, he is base 2IC, regardless. So if Woolsey was compromised when Caldwell was around, it would still be Shep who takes command, and whilst he would have to respect Caldwell as his senior, is still in a position to make requests of the Daedalus to perform operations.

Sure, and Teyla being left in charge during the Wraith alliance at the end of season three was just a formality.

She was left in charge for a reason, and that reason is that she knows the general state of things in the Pegasus galaxy(not counting what we found out in Ghost in the Machine; a majority of the races in PG wouldn't know that), besides being supremely capable physically, certainly moreso than Woolsey.

Look, all I'm saying, is that to dismiss her or Ronon asincapable of adjusting to a command position over an operation like Atlantis just because they're "mere civilians" is severely shortsighted.

But I'm not dismissing them for being civvy, I'm dismisisng them because they're attatchment to the expedition, particularly in the early seasons was VERY ad hoc. Weir should have an actual administrative staff to take over from her, if it's not a situation for a military OC.

Frankly, whilst Ronan and Teyla's PG expertise are useful, they are on Atlantis in a consultant and advisory capacity primarily. Frankly it's because they're aliens and have no right commanding an Earth expedition.