What causes Intolerance of diverse SGA opinions?

[miniglik]

I guess I am biased towards SGA mainly, and SGA characters. As well, I generally would like the show's casts to remain separate, except in crossover eps.

Oh, that's a good one for me. Ever since I finally succumbed to SGA fandom, I keep trying out SG1 episodes. Over and over again I sit down and try to watch it -- episodes from all different seasons, I assume. Inevitably I am bored by it, and turn it off. (I also disliked almost anything SG1 when it was introduced on SGA.) SG1 is probably brilliant from the beginning, I'm not saying it's not. But anytime anyone starts a post which implies that SGA has lost the spirit/creativity/quality of the original, I pretty much immediately put them in a box in my head of "great, here comes another Good Old Boring Days" post.

So I guess I'm prejudiced against posters who complain that Atlantis isn't as good as the original show. Not that it's not a valid opinion, but it's not even a discussion I can take part in, because I didn't watch enough SG1 to have a truly informed argument about why SGA is better.

[Starrtom]

I don't consider myself as anti or pro, infact I enjoy getting the point of view of both, as they both have good and bad points. But the feeling I get from a lot of posts is that the intolerance comes from peoples egos and percieved self importance as to their point view. I also feel that there is a hint of cyber bullying from some, inorder to get the outcome they want.

[Jill_Ion]

I don't consider myself as anti or pro, infact I enjoy getting the point of view of both, as they both have good and bad points. But the feeling I get from a lot of posts is that the intolerance comes from peoples egos and percieved self importance as to their point view. I also feel that there is a hint of cyber bullying from some, inorder to get the outcome they want.

True, Starrtom. Cyberbullying occurs throughout the Net and GW isn't immune.

[Briangate78]

Sorry folks, everyone is wrong and I am always right. That is how it will always be. J/K!

[Jackie]

On topic:

Topic: What causes intolerance...of diverse SGA opinions?

The question in itself is open to interpretation because you are asking for FACTS about OPINIONS...and in all honesty...there isn't any. Sure, I could go off and rattle on about arrogance, sort sightedness, over confidence as being causes but what boils down to...is there is no reason for intolerance.

What was the reasoning behind this thread? To discuss diverse opinions? Or was it to bring to light the fact that recently there has been a lot of immaturity on this board...which is also intolerance in my eyes anyways.

Intolerance stems from many things...I think we could say that intolerance IS an emotional immaturity.

And ya all know something...you treat the posters like little kids they will act like little kids. It's a vicious cycle and threatening to shut down a thread just adds to it.

I don't know about the rest of the members of this board but when I come here I treat every poster I interact with like an adult. I would hope I would be treated the same in return.

[KindlyKeller]

Well, it's tough, Jackie.

On the one hand, the mods have a very tough job, and the fact that they devote a lot of spare time to do it (so that this board can function) is something we should all appreciate. On the other hand, I agree that the "don't make me come back there!" mindset can at times be stifling too.

At the end of the day, I guess all we can really do is take care of ourselves, and let the rest be what it will be. Intolerance, whoever it's from, shouldn't be met with intolerance by you (universal you). It's something I'm forced to remind myself from time to time.

[Jill_Ion]

OK, Brian's right. Makes everything muuuuch easier - just ck with Brian! So how do I deal with....(insert annoying person here)?

I agree with Jackie. Threats by anyone just adds fuel to the fire. Like, say I piss off another member. They could follow me around the board, being a jerk. Then I'd report them and things would proceed per board rules. But unless the offending person is willing to break the law (cyberstalking, real life threatening), there's not a lot they can do.

Basically, for the sane on this board, what're you gonna do if I disagree with you? Take away my birthday? Hit ignore or "virtual ignore" and move on. Maybe some time I'll take my advice 100% of the time. Right now I'm about 75%.

[Jackie]

Well, it's tough, Jackie.

On the one hand, the mods have a very tough job, and the fact that they devote a lot of spare time to do it (so that this board can function) is something we should all appreciate. On the other hand, I agree that the "don't make me come back there!" mindset can at times be stifling too.

At the end of the day, I guess all we can really do is take care of ourselves, and let the rest be what it will be. Intolerance, whoever it's from, shouldn't be met with intolerance by you (universal you). It's something I'm forced to remind myself from time to time.

I don't envy the mods here and I appreciate what they do try to do. But I can't help but wonder if a different approach by the mods would benefit the general populace. Threats don't work! Going about putting spoilers tags on post where the poster honestly just forgot doesn't help, deleting post, editing post for being off topic only adds to the child like mentality I have seen here.

Honestly, I can't help but wonder if some posters push the envelope just to see if they can PO a mod.

Also...some people have a "playground" attitude when they come here and they think of this place as a playground. I don't think of it as a playground but as a public speaking forum. I'm not here to play, I'm here to chat. If I want to play I will go play with my kid.

So IMO anyways, some of the immaturity stems from basic motivation as to why people are here.

I agree with Jackie. Threats by anyone just adds fuel to the fire. Like, say I piss off another member. They could follow me around the board, being a jerk. Then I'd report them and things would proceed per board rules. But unless the offending person is willing to break the law (cyberstalking, real life threatening), there's not a lot they can do.

Basically, for the sane on this board, what're you gonna do if I disagree with you? Take away my birthday? Hit ignore or "virtual ignore" and move on. Maybe some time I'll take my advice 100% of the time. Right now I'm about 75%.

Ignore works great. It throws a bucket of cold water on the virtual fire.

[miniglik]

I prefer even stricter moderation than present here. I'd love to see a few less trolls. (I hope that's not too off topic.)

It's not being treated like children, it's being treated like you're part of society. Rudeness and cyber bullying is prevailant in online forums because there are very few consequences to acting that way. Unlike the real world, where there are far more immediate consequences to acting inappropriately: losing friends, losing family, losing jobs.

And, honestly, I prefer to communicate with people who are mature enough to figure out the rules and stick to them.

[Shipperahoy]

I don't envy the mods here and I appreciate what they do try to do. But I can't help but wonder if a different approach by the mods would benefit the general populace. Threats don't work! Going about putting spoilers tags on post where the poster honestly just forgot doesn't help, deleting post, editing post for being off topic only adds to the child like mentality I have seen here.

Honestly, I can't help but wonder if some posters push the envelope just to see if they can PO a mod.

Also...some people have a "playground" attitude when they come here and they think of this place as a playground. I don't think of it as a playground but as a public speaking forum. I'm not here to play, I'm here to chat. If I want to play I will go play with my kid.

So IMO anyways, some of the immaturity stems from basic motivation as to why people are here.

Well here's the thing. No matter what we do people are going to be unhappy. There are literally thousands of people who play on this forum. No matter how we handle a situation some people are going to think that we're too harsh, some people are going to think we're too lenient, some people just flat out don't want moderators at all, and some people just couldn't care less. We have a system in place that, over the many years this forum has been around, we've discovered works for the best. It's not perfect, but then again nothing is. There will be glitches and mods will occasionally make mistakes but overall it has worked for us thus far.

A thread about intolerance is bound to draw more moderator attention than other threads because it's more likely to derail, as is evidenced by the multitude of posts that have had to be deleted. I personally find it a tad ironic that mods doing their jobs is being complained about on a thread about intolerance but perhaps that's just me.

For me, speaking from my experience helping to moderate this board over the years, a lot of the intolerance I see stems from people being under the mistaken impression that they will be able to change people's opinions if they argue with them and/or tell them that said opinions are stupid long enough. There's a lot of inability on this forum to simply let people have their own opinions, even if they differ from your own. There's this mentality that people have to be "converted" to the "right" opinion.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that people shouldn't debate. I just think a lot of people confuse debate with trying to prove that people with differing opinions are "wrong".

[TameFarrar]

» Well - I guess so. It can be annoying at times. I truly have the potential to lash out when it does come down to "belittling" as you put it, or blatant mockery of what I enjoy. I can discuss and debate, but once they say "it's for the better" it's like buzzing flies.

I can definitely understand where you are coming from here. When the very things I enjoy about the show are the very things another cant' stand it makes it all that much tougher sometimes to have a decent discussion. It helps me to try to visualize a real person in front of me if I am trying to find the best way to disagree with someone and yet still be open or *show* that I am open to hearing their POV about the same subject. *seeing* a person in my head helps me to not say things that would be perceived as rude or condescending. It may not always work but it helps me personally

» I really don't think that the viewer opinion I hold is considered very often, and that I am also often dismissed as "a small fraction of fandom". So I do think I feel very ineffective at the moment when it comes to providing valuable feedback from my perspective.

Ya know I think the same thing about my own personal issues with SGA, so is that you feel it is not considered by TPTB or by fandom in general? For me my issues with SGA are more consumer of a product issues and I wouldn't even know who to tell that would really care so is it more that I just want to share my opinions with other folks who maybe feel closer to how I do at times or about select subjects be they positive or negative and I don't want to feel bad that I feel the way I do. I can honestly say I don't know all the time it almost depends on the day and just how I feel about SGA overall that day

» I think it's selfishness to a degree, because to want what we love is human nature, and such is the nature of fandom and the world. I don't think by getting what I want out of the show will detract or take away from other's viewing pleasures. Now, if they went for all of my preferences (made a certain 'ship canon), I could understand the distaste. This is why I 'ship' but don't want any ship to become canon. I like that fandom has diverse opinions, and I just want things to be more balanced.

I think this is as balanced as you can ask for because in the end we all do want what we want, even if I say I am just happy with whatever TPTB do..then I am in effect saying I want whatever the PTB want so...it still comes down to what I as a fan want at some point. Its figuring out how to grin and bear it when things go south that makes it the hardest on fans I believe. There is a big difference between saying I would love this or that to happen..versus I expect this or that to happen and then becoming a intolerable git when TPTB don't give you what you expect.... So if I can roll with the changes but still be able to voice my sorrow at something then I feel I should at least be respected for the fact that I may not like this or that but at the end of the day I still am willing to give things a chance.

» It is truly tptb that has control, but I think perspectives from the diversity of different fans should be taken into account. And, I do wish some people could be more mindful when it comes to remembering that I love the show too, just not the new seasons. Speaking to some of my buddies, they have said that the reason why they do not visit the general threads is because they feel their opinion is not welcomed.

It does seem at times that the general populace decides who and what should be allowed in the *open arenas* and it can get harder and harder to voice your opinion especially when it doesn't match the status quo. For every one person that says "yay you for writing such a well thought out post that is both well balanced and insightful" you end up with five others saying" I can't believe you dissed my favorite character you <blank>" So you almost feel like why bother if all anyone can remember about your post is that one thing and forget the other three paragraphs you wrote.
I know when I feel like that I have to sit back and realize that the only way my own intolerance can be dealt with is if I face it head on and the intolerance I feel from another has to almost be ignored if all it does is create a need in me to be retaliatory. Like should not always answer like. Not if I want to have a productive conversation.

» Yup, all's good. and it's much easier when people aren't coming after me with pitchforks.

» (btw, I'll probably respond to your reply tomorrow, as I'm really tired. )

I think its always easier to engage in any discussion if all feel like its ok to be yourself and if anything I say is not understood I will be asked before I am accused. That IMHO is part of the problem with any discussion. When folks are writing with the thought that they might be blind sided that makes it harder for them to write a post that is open. That to me is just the beginning of a stilted discussion because we both know that it does and has happened that no matter what you intended to say, there is always something that can be twisted and its hard to write when you are constantly trying to figure out "can this be twisted, can that be twisted"...so I understand your POV there

[Jill_Ion]

As I believe Jackie said above, some of the nastier exchanges occur between people trying to convince others their opinion is "right." I have debated or discussed cool to hot topics with people, not in hopes that they will change their mind, but that they will see that someone else has a different and valid opinion. Success has been limited. So I don't try very hard anymore. Sad, cuz I was willing to accept their POV as at least valid. It's gotten to a point where I don't even bother trying to learn some people's POVs. No point if I'm not going to get an equal chance to express myself.

We can walk our road together
If our goals are all the same
We can run alone and free
If we pursue a different aim

[TameFarrar]

The posts regarding spoiler policies have been moved to here since they in no way pertain to the topic of this thread

[Jackie]

Well here's the thing. No matter what we do people are going to be unhappy. There are literally thousands of people who play on this forum. No matter how we handle a situation some people are going to think that we're too harsh, some people are going to think we're too lenient, some people just flat out don't want moderators at all, and some people just couldn't care less. We have a system in place that, over the many years this forum has been around, we've discovered works for the best. It's not perfect, but then again nothing is. There will be glitches and mods will occasionally make mistakes but overall it has worked for us thus far.

A thread about intolerance is bound to draw more moderator attention than other threads because it's more likely to derail, as is evidenced by the multitude of posts that have had to be deleted. I personally find it a tad ironic that mods doing their jobs is being complained about on a thread about intolerance but perhaps that's just me.

For me, speaking from my experience helping to moderate this board over the years, a lot of the intolerance I see stems from people being under the mistaken impression that they will be able to change people's opinions if they argue with them and/or tell them that said opinions are stupid long enough. There's a lot of inability on this forum to simply let people have their own opinions, even if they differ from your own. There's this mentality that people have to be "converted" to the "right" opinion.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that people shouldn't debate. I just think a lot of people confuse debate with trying to prove that people with differing opinions are "wrong".

As I believe Jackie said above, some of the nastier exchanges occur between people trying to convince others their opinion is "right." I have debated or discussed cool to hot topics with people, not in hopes that they will change their mind, but that they will see that someone else has a different and valid opinion. Success has been limited. So I don't try very hard anymore. Sad, cuz I was willing to accept their POV as at least valid. It's gotten to a point where I don't even bother trying to learn some people's POVs. No point if I'm not going to get an equal chance to express myself.

We can walk our road together
If our goals are all the same
We can run alone and free
If we pursue a different aim

Now, (I apologize in advanced) I'm going to sound like an arrogant sob and tell you how to change an opinion.

If it were impossible to change an opinion then the world would be free of politicians, religion and above all SALES REPS!!!

I was a culligan sales rep for a while. Do want to know how hard it is to convince someone they need a water softener? no? well, I'm gonna tell ya anyways.

The lead (how I got the person's name) was from a 50 dollar gift certificate drawing. This person just wanted the 50 bucks, not a water softener. So, I'm going into their home and I already know they have their mind made up. Just let me do my free water test and shove me out the door.

believe it or not there is actual training and a procedure used to convince them otherwise. First, ya chat with them and become their friend. Then you find their needs. What they like to do, work, ect. Then you gather how much money they spend on cleaning products, skin products (water softeners requires less soap used the water...it doesn't dry your skin, so you use much less moisturizers) and you use...money savings as the motivation.

basically the procedure is...befriends, discover, "fill need" or in reality...use money against them. lol.

What most posters don't understand is there a process and how to exploit it. In a case the forum, there is no monetary need or motivation. But there still has to be a need to fill.

In my own case, my need is fan fic writing and information on what is cliche and what is not considered cliche. And Skydiver has actually changed my own opinion unknowingly as she filled some of those needs. For example: I thought Vala was an utter waste of time and saw reason to ever use her in a story. Sky pointed out her potential to me.

In the case of a forum, each poster has a different need to fill. A different motivation. If a poster is willing to...find the need and then fill it...you can sway thier opinion...that is if your opinion fill their need.

The fact that need is very basic here prevents anyone from swaying everyone's opinion. By basic I mean...entertainment need. Something you can't actually live without. It's not like GW has an oil crisis and a single poster has the solution and can persuade everyone's opinion to their own.

So, yes an opinion can be swayed but is it worth trying to invest the emotion, time, effort into swaying another opinion for no gain? Obviously not.

I think that the biggest issue...convincing people that the majority of the time there is no gain to swaying an opinion on a entertainment forum. Thus, they are wasting their time.

The posts regarding spoiler policies have been moved to here since they in no way pertain to the topic of this thread

my apologies...

thank you for the thread...I appreciate it.

[pjt]

The posts regarding spoiler policies have been moved to here since they in no way pertain to the topic of this thread

Excuse me, er..., did you happen to see my post? It was surely not about spoilers, 'twas about TPTB listening to the voice of the public. I've sure I've left it here somewhere.