Shanks for President...of Atlantis

[Mitchell82]

All true, but none of it explains why a diplomat would be better suited to run Atlantis than Daniel. I'm not arguing that Daniel should be the leader, only that he's more qualified than Weir ever was.

I'm still trying to figure out how Daniel is even remotely qualified to run Atlantis other than his Ancient knowledge.

[jenks]

He may trump her in offworld travel but that has nothing to do with who was more qualified.

I disagree.

I'm still trying to figure out how Daniel is even remotely qualified to run Atlantis other than his Ancient knowledge.

It's an expedition to another galaxy, how many times has Daniel gone on missions to places that have never been explored by humans from Earth before? Must be in triple figures at least, he's met with countless alien civilizations and managed to get himself out of all sorts of situations, plus he's Earths foremost expert on the Ancients. Now, let's see what Weir has, hmmm... She's negotiated a few treaties between countries on Earth, she's essentially a desk jockey. Daniels vast experience with gate travel, off world exploration, the military, the Ancients and pretty much anything else to do with the gate in general dwarfs anything that Weir has to offer.

[Jackie]

I agree. Daniel has shown that he has true leadership qualities. He has always been a take charge character, ever since the movie when he saved Jack's life and organised the people of Abydos to overthrow Ra. I think he would make an excellent leader of Atlantis. I loved Weir but if she really had to go, and I don't want to start that thing up again but if she did, then Daniel would have been the logical choice to replace her.

I have no idea why they chose Carter and now Woolsey.

Of course, Jack would never let Daniel get that far away from him, long distance relationships are a pain in the neck!

We all wonder why tptb chose them. Sam...basically turns down leadership roles in SG-1. Woosley is just a prick with a pencil.

And no, not Daniel. I don´t mind him being in Atlantis for few episodes but not as a leader. I don´t think they should put any SG1 character into major role in SGA. They tried it last year and it didn´t work. And, Daniel really isn´t a leading material. They had someone very similar there - with leading abilities - Elizabeth. Even after such long time, I don´t understand why did they do what they did.

Wier was written out to give her a major story arc. Of course, the major arc was more like a bottle rocket than a major blast.

IMO, Wier was supposed to have been the female equivalent of Daniel. A civilian and negotiator who could speak read ancient. Nothing more. She was also (according to JM) was supposed to be a "hammond type role" more of a support than a leading female. Leave the leading female to Teyla...who is usually holding up the wall. Which leaves us with Rodney as the leading female IMO.

I would remove entire SGA team from the show and replace them with Cam, Vala, Daniel and Teal'c. I miss Vala

I could remove the cast as well. Vala? Honestly, I would have cast CB in a different role. I would have kept Vala as a one time, stand alone ep and hoped no one remembered the character.

Then cast CB as a new lead, under a new character, that had the fun of Vala but not the baggage of her past.

I did come up with a fic idea where CB would have been cast as a character that had parts of the Ancient knowledge that was embedded in her genetic code. (I would have made her a new type of ancient...but she didn't know she was an ancient)

I would given the character the ability to build space age gadgets, like Jack did when he was downloaded, but not really comprehend the whole picture.
Of course, I also would have dropped the boring Ori like a rock too!

I think the Wraith should find earth! I also think the wraith should get even stronger if they feed of a Jaffa or Goa'uld, Tok'ra and outright go after the Jaffa as dinner.

Yep, the Wraith need to take Atlantis and gain the city. Come to the milky way and wage a war with the Jaffa, To'kra and humans. Make Pegasus the Wraith's domain and have them continue to look for food.

We would be sending ships into Pegasus to rescue any humans we find and wage gorilla warfare with the Wraith. Yep, tptb need to kick the wraith into high gear.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

He may trump her in offworld travel but that has nothing to do with who was more qualified.




Maybe so but her performance in LC and New Order showed that Weir has great command potential it just was never constant on Atlantis. There would be times where she shined and others where she didn't.

The writers should have written Weir consistently- the way they did in LC and New Order. I do not believe Daniel is more qualified to lead Atlantis. Daniel may have leadership capabilities, but he does not have administrative skills. There is a difference. You can be a natural leader, but not have the necessary skills or requirements to be in a position of command. Weir proved herself in handling the threat of Anubis and the other system lords.

Carter was chosen because the writers obviously felt they needed her to draw in SG-1 fans. That, and they wanted a viable reason to keep her on the show. After RDA left, Carter was obviously the figurehead of the series.

Woolsey, IMO, is the more reasonable choice. He has the skills of Daniel and Weir (minus the strong leadership capability), plus the political skills necessary. Remember, Weir was picked to be the administrator of Atlantis, not the commander of Atlantis. The distinction is very important when considering who exactly is qualified to be in charge. Daniel would be- he has most of the skills- but he doesn't have experience in top-level decision-making. And when you are sending an expedition to another galaxy, you want someone who has had that experience making tough decisions in administrative and diplomatic situations. As I posted earlier, Sheppard is supposed to make up for Weir's lack of military expertise (Carter was not needed to command Atlantis). Unfortunately, that doesn't work out too well, because he is offworld most of the time. Therefore, Atlantis really only needs a seasoned colonel to command the military aspects of the Expedition (someone like Everett, Sumner, or Oneill).

[flynn1959]

[QUOTE=Ltcolshepjumper;8389404] I do not believe Daniel is more qualified to lead Atlantis. Daniel may have leadership capabilities, but he does not have administrative skills. There is a difference. You can be a natural leader, but not have the necessary skills or requirements to be in a position of command.
Carter was chosen because the writers obviously felt they needed her to draw in SG-1 fans. That, and they wanted a viable reason to keep her on the show. After RDA left, Carter was obviously the figurehead of the series.

QUOTE]

Daniel obviously needed admin skills to organise the people of Abydos, and as head of his dept at the SGC he would also need those same skills. He would have made a very good leader of Atlantis imo.

I don't think Carter was a good fit at all, she has no leadership skills to speak of. As for her drawing in the fans well, we all know how that worked out.

Figurehead of the series? Not sure which show you've been watching but it's obviously not the same one as me! Carter was, is, and always will be a supporting character.

Woolsey? I don't like him, have never liked him, and feel that his inclusion on the show is just stunt casting and smells of desperation on tptb's part.

[Jackie]

The writers should have written Weir consistently- the way they did in LC and New Order. I do not believe Daniel is more qualified to lead Atlantis. Daniel may have leadership capabilities, but he does not have administrative skills. There is a difference. You can be a natural leader, but not have the necessary skills or requirements to be in a position of command. Weir proved herself in handling the threat of Anubis and the other system lords.

Carter was chosen because the writers obviously felt they needed her to draw in SG-1 fans. That, and they wanted a viable reason to keep her on the show. After RDA left, Carter was obviously the figurehead of the series.

Woolsey, IMO, is the more reasonable choice. He has the skills of Daniel and Weir (minus the strong leadership capability), plus the political skills necessary. Remember, Weir was picked to be the administrator of Atlantis, not the commander of Atlantis. The distinction is very important when considering who exactly is qualified to be in charge. Daniel would be- he has most of the skills- but he doesn't have experience in top-level decision-making. And when you are sending an expedition to another galaxy, you want someone who has had that experience making tough decisions in administrative and diplomatic situations. As I posted earlier, Sheppard is supposed to make up for Weir's lack of military expertise (Carter was not needed to command Atlantis). Unfortunately, that doesn't work out too well, because he is offworld most of the time. Therefore, Atlantis really only needs a seasoned colonel to command the military aspects of the Expedition (someone like Everett, Sumner, or Oneill).

How did you deduce that Daniel has no administrative skills for top level administration. He has 2 doctor's degrees! One of those degrees is in Anthropology. I believe part of the very curriculum to get a doctor's degree in any subject would be administrative skills!

Then add in his experience in the field, his leadership roles in the Stargate Program...including training roles. His ability to negotiate deals was brought up in a number of eps.

SGA needs to be restructure over all.

First no department heads should be going off world...that would technically include Sheppard and McKay if that were carried out.

The leader of SGA was intended as a "Hammond" type role. A supportive role but it didn't work out that way.

Wier did really good in the first season, as did the team because they were cut off from earth. After the ships came on a regular basis the series lost some of it's appeal IMO.

For me...Daniel on SGA would have been a major selling point. Sending him to replace weir would have made more sense than woosley or carter.

If tptb were serious about attracting sg-1 fans they would put either jack or daniel on SGA but that is not going to happen.

When people read fan fics...the ones I write with Jack and Daniel always get more attention than all the others.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

How did you deduce that Daniel has no administrative skills for top level administration. He has 2 doctor's degrees! One of those degrees is in Anthropology. I believe part of the very curriculum to get a doctor's degree in any subject would be administrative skills!

Then add in his experience in the field, his leadership roles in the Stargate Program...including training roles. His ability to negotiate deals was brought up in a number of eps.

SGA needs to be restructure over all.

First no department heads should be going off world...that would technically include Sheppard and McKay if that were carried out.

The leader of SGA was intended as a "Hammond" type role. A supportive role but it didn't work out that way.

Wier did really good in the first season, as did the team because they were cut off from earth. After the ships came on a regular basis the series lost some of it's appeal IMO.

For me...Daniel on SGA would have been a major selling point. Sending him to replace weir would have made more sense than woosley or carter.

If tptb were serious about attracting sg-1 fans they would put either jack or daniel on SGA but that is not going to happen.

When people read fan fics...the ones I write with Jack and Daniel always get more attention than all the others.

One, TPTB should not really be focused on getting SG-1 fans to watch their own favorites star on SGA. They should be trying to get them to watch the Atlantis characters. SGA is not SG-1 v2.0! And, if you notice, I put TOP-LEVEL administration. Daniel doesn't have that experience.

And, please do specify what leadership roles Daniel has been put in that compare to a "Hammond-esque" leadership style.

Weir has brokered many UN treaties, and has proven herself capable of leading during difficult situations. Daniel's degree in Anthropology would only get him on Atlantis's elite team as lead negotiator (by the way, Teyla/Dr. Weir was supposed to fill that role). Remember, Atlantis does not have an archaeology department.

And tell me exactly how Woolsey is not qualified! And Carter has just as much leadership experience as Daniel.

[RowenaR]

How did you deduce that Daniel has no administrative skills for top level administration. He has 2 doctor's degrees! One of those degrees is in Anthropology. I believe part of the very curriculum to get a doctor's degree in any subject would be administrative skills!

I have no idea how it's done in the US, but in Germany getting a doctor's degree usually is about researching and teaching, not administrating and leading. And honestly: It wouldn't make much sense incorporating an education on administrative skills into a doctorate curriculum (I don't even think there is such a thing as a doctorate curriculum in Germany... in fact, you're pretty much on your own most of the time you write your thesis), at least from a scientific point of view, because it's about research, not administrating (sorry if I'm being redundant, but reading the statement above it makes me wonder if you even actually got the point of the whole doctorate thing).

But of course: Show me something stating that doctorates in the US are something completely different from doctorates in Germany, and I'll reconsider my statement.

And, getting to the point: Having two doctorates doesn't automatically make you a good administrator. It just makes you - at least in most cases - a good scientiest. Which are, often enough, two completely different things.

[Merlin1701]

RowenaR...why does a degree make you a good leader?

The character has acquired skills from his studies in anthropology and archaeology but his time within the military structure of the SGC; would that not count towards "skills" of leadership? On numerous occasions Jackson has taken on/ been given authority roles within missions and negotiations. These attributes that have been further developed through interactions with military officers and peoples from other worlds.

[RowenaR]

On numerous occasions Jackson has taken on/ been given authority roles within missions and negotiations. These attributes that have been further developed through interactions with military officers and peoples from other worlds.

That may very well be, but this is due to his experience with the SGC, not due to his doctorates. Aquiring a doctorate has nearly next to nothing to do with aquiring leadership qualities. There may be other things making him a leader (although, honestly, I really don't want to see just another SG1-character as a recurring role or even part of the main cast on Atlantis... I mainly watch the show because it's or at least was supposed to be different from SG1), but just don't use the phrase "But he has two doctorates!" as an argument, because quite frankly it just isn't.

[Jackie]

Wier's specialty was politics. She was a diplomat.

Daniel referred to Wier's work when drafting the alliance between the Tok'ra and Earth. Daniel drafted the alliance! There is your proof that Daniel is equal to Wier in diplomacy.

Top Level Administration is a very open to opinion term. Hammond was a top level administrator and a Major general. His expertise was a in military operations...not diplomacy. Yet, no one doubts his ability to lead or administer. All officers of the us armed forces attend special military schools and the majority go into their careers with master's equivalently degrees. Many General's (a major general) would have gone a little further in military schools and gotten the military equivalent to a doctor's degree.

If Daniel Jackson can gain 2 doctoral degrees, speak 32 languages, broker alliance treaties with the Tok'ra, lead the people of abydos in an uprising against Ra, establish relations with other races, such as the Unas, have the Asgard name a ship after him, is considered a vital part of the stargate program, then how can he NOT be qualified to lead Atlantis?

My sister just got her master's degree, she did indeed need to take some courses that would also be found in administrative majors.

Administrative courses are made to the subject they are getting the degree in. Business administrative courses would not be duplicate of a medical administrative course but some subjects, such as human resources would be. Administrative degree in politics would not require the same courses as a degree in public school administration.

Top Level administration for SGA certainly wouldn't require someone with a degree in politics. It would need a person with a degree in military strategy. Over all...Hammond would be ideal.

But, that doesn't mean someone like Daniel cannot lead the expedition and he is certainly more qualified that weir was.

[Merlin1701]

oi, RowenaR...did i say "But he has two doctorates!"

check again...

do you hold some form of OI, RowenaR...did I say "But he has two doctorates!"

Check again...

Do you hold some form of negative, antagonistic feeling towards those that have studied? All that you seem to mention is that the character could not fulfil this post because he has two doctorates?

As Jackie has mentioned above the character of Daniel Jackson, ahem...DR Daniel Jackson, has a vast skill set.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

Wier's specialty was politics. She was a diplomat.

Daniel referred to Wier's work when drafting the alliance between the Tok'ra and Earth. Daniel drafted the alliance! There is your proof that Daniel is equal to Wier in diplomacy.

Top Level Administration is a very open to opinion term. Hammond was a top level administrator and a Major general. His expertise was a in military operations...not diplomacy. Yet, no one doubts his ability to lead or administer. All officers of the us armed forces attend special military schools and the majority go into their careers with master's equivalently degrees. Many General's (a major general) would have gone a little further in military schools and gotten the military equivalent to a doctor's degree.

If Daniel Jackson can gain 2 doctoral degrees, speak 32 languages, broker alliance treaties with the Tok'ra, lead the people of abydos in an uprising against Ra, establish relations with other races, such as the Unas, have the Asgard name a ship after him, is considered a vital part of the stargate program, then how can he NOT be qualified to lead Atlantis?

My sister just got her master's degree, she did indeed need to take some courses that would also be found in administrative majors.

Administrative courses are made to the subject they are getting the degree in. Business administrative courses would not be duplicate of a medical administrative course but some subjects, such as human resources would be. Administrative degree in politics would not require the same courses as a degree in public school administration.

Top Level administration for SGA certainly wouldn't require someone with a degree in politics. It would need a person with a degree in military strategy. Over all...Hammond would be ideal.

But, that doesn't mean someone like Daniel cannot lead the expedition and he is certainly more qualified that weir was.

But tell me, what was Daniel again? An archaeologist, anthropologist and a linguist. Although he may have had equal skills with Dr. Weir, he does not have the political background that either Weir or Woolsey have. Furthermore, Daniel's "leading the people of abydos in an uprising against Ra, establishing relations with other races, such as the Unas, having the Asgard name a ship after him, and being a vital part of the stargate program" have nothing to do with him being qualified to lead Atlantis. He is vital why? Because he has been with it since the beginning and is first and foremost a humanitarian and possesses diplomatic skills. And yet, his brokering of treaties with the Tok'ra mean nothing. Those were in no wise similar to brokering treaties between nations. Treaties between two conflicting nations involve politics, geography, economic, and military issues. Weir has had that experience. Daniel has not. And having experience in military strategy was not needed for Weir's position, because Sumner and Sheppard filled that role. Oh, by the way, if Daniel had to reference Weir's work, then that proves that Weir, not Daniel, is the more proficient in diplomacy and politics.

[jenks]

We're talking about skills needed to lead an expedition to another galaxy. A decades worth of experience in gate travel and exploration, plus dealing with the military and negotiating with alien civilizations trumps a political background on Earth any day of the week. End of.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

We're talking about skills needed to lead an expedition to another galaxy. A decades worth of experience in gate travel and exploration, plus dealing with the military and negotiating with alien civilizations trumps a political background on Earth any day of the week. End of.

As you said, skills needed to lead an expedition. As well, although Weir did not have experience with alien civilizations, she did deal with the military (opposing it at first even).