season 5 some info read in scifi magazine

[PG15]

Then why do they advertise it as such? If some smell is coming off of you that can "deny free will" of any women around you, then surely it'd be banned?

FALSE ADVERTISEMENT!!!!

As for the free will to deny Lucius; I don't think that's how it works. I mean, I'll have a VERY hard time choosing to kill my own family, but it doesn't mean my free will has been taken away. Lucius's chemical influenced their minds (that's not up for debate) in such a way that denying him was just not something worth doing. No, IMHO, if their free will was truly denied, then they wouldn't have expressed themselves in any way. They'd be like robots.

I mean, as an example; near the end Rodney said "Fly Lucius! Fly!" Now, if he had no free will, then he wouldn't have had the capacity to do ANYTHING that Lucius didn't tell him to do, and yet he expressed himself anyway by saying that, without Lucius prompting him. He chose to say it. Thus, he still had some free will.

That's just how I think of it, anyway.

[g.o.d]

I've heard that TPTB will introduce some very powerful race

[jenks]

Where is there any indication that the people affected by the drug still had free will to deny Lucius? Show the proof, and please put more effort into it than "because I said so."

You seem confused as to what free will actually is, free will is the ability to make decisions for ourselves, it's got nothing to do with what state of mind you're in. The drug isn't a magical entity that can take over your body and make decisions for you, it can influence those decisions or even change then, but at the end of the day you're still the one making them.

[jenks]

I've heard that TPTB will introduce some very powerful race

I'm not sure how powerful they are, but I've read that there are a couple of as yet unseen races in the Pegasus Galaxy that have been keeping their heads down due to the Wraith, but now that they're severely weakened they're going to make their presence felt...

[g.o.d]

I'm not sure how powerful they are, but I've read that there are a couple of as yet unseen races in the Pegasus Galaxy that have been keeping their heads down due to the Wraith, but now that they're severely weakened they're going to make their presence felt...

I would like to see race as powerful as the Ancients in PG.

[ToasterOnFire]

You seem confused as to what free will actually is, free will is the ability to make decisions for ourselves, it's got nothing to do with what state of mind you're in.

Nothing to do with state of mind? Oh please. So people who have been brainwashed still have free will and the ability to make their own decisions?

The drug isn't a magical entity that can take over your body and make decisions for you, it can influence those decisions or even change then, but at the end of the day you're still the one making them.

By that argument, neither GHB nor rohpynol are "magical entities that can take over your body and make decisions for you", so are you arguing that people who are given those drugs are ultimately choosing to have sex with the people who secretly drug them? Because surprise! pretty much every court would say you're wrong.

[jenks]

If you've been drugged with GHB or rohpynol you can't think let alone speak, you're unable to give consent, unlike with Lucius' drug. The other big difference is that it's Lucius ingesting the herb, it's obviously immoral what he did, but on the other hand who's got the right to tell him what he can and can't ingest? There's no way he'd be convicted of rape if something like was discovered in the real world, the law might be changed and the herb outlawed, but that's about it.

[Gaeth]

If you've been drugged with GHB or rohpynol you can't think let alone speak, you're unable to give consent, unlike with Lucius' drug. The other big difference is that it's Lucius ingesting the herb, it's obviously immoral what he did, but on the other hand who's got the right to tell him what he can and can't ingest? There's no way he'd be convicted of rape if something like was discovered in the real world, the law might be changed and the herb outlawed, but that's about it.

Actually it takes about 30 minutes to completely pass out from rohypnol. Having sex with someone in that drugged stupor even if they're not passed out is still rape. They did something under the effects of that drug they would not have done otherwise, an artificial external chemical overrode their cognitive function.

Just think could these people under the effect of this drug refuse Lucius's demands? No, they could not refuse Lucius, the drug prevented it. Sheppard wasn't drugged (temporarily) because he had a cold, McKay wasn't drugged because he avoided prolonged conduct with Lucius until Ronon (under the effect of the drug) held him down for Lucius to drug him. As soon as Dr. Becket was away from Lucius's presence he turned against him. As soon as his freewill was restored he tried to rid Atlantis of Lucius and his drug.

[jenks]

If they didn't choose to do what Lucius wanted then who did? The drug may have influenced the choices they made or even changed them, but it was still them making them, and that's essentially what free will is.

[Gaeth]

If they didn't choose to do what Lucius wanted then who did? The drug may have influenced the choices they made or even changed them, but it was still them making them, and that's essentially what free will is.

It was Lucius, the chemical put them in an ultra submissive state which made them obey his demands. By your logic when someone is tortured into confession then it is still a legitimate confession because they 'chose' to confess since pain only 'influenced' them and they still had freewill. A Wraith queen that hijacks someone with telepathy still leaves that person with 'freewill'. If such a controlled person were made to kill someone by the Wraith, they'd be responsible for the murder along with the Wraith. They were only 'influenced' by the Wraith's brainwaves and the chemical changes in the victim but still had 'freewill'.

[Mitchell82]

You seem confused as to what free will actually is, free will is the ability to make decisions for ourselves, it's got nothing to do with what state of mind you're in. The drug isn't a magical entity that can take over your body and make decisions for you, it can influence those decisions or even change then, but at the end of the day you're still the one making them.

Exactly. It's like booze in a screwed up way. Excess alcohol decreases you inhibitions but does not take away your free will. Same applies to the drug. If the girls on "Girls Gone Wild" don't win their lawsuits then this debate would loose as well.

[Gaeth]

Exactly. It's like booze in a screwed up way. Excess alcohol decreases you inhibitions but does not take away your free will. Same applies to the drug. If the girls on "Girls Gone Wild" don't win their lawsuits then this debate would loose as well.

Lucius's chemical didn't just lower inhibitions it made them obedient to Lucius and Lucius alone. Also, the drug was administered to them without their consent or even their knowledge (airborne and auditory). It has nothing to do with booze or 'Girls Gone Wild'. That's non sequitur.

[jenks]

They visited his village, they invited him to Atlantis. He never did anything to them without their consent.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

I agree with some of the posts in here: the Stargate franchise needs a new big, bad enemy. My preferences and ideas:

1) A totally new, original species, preferably alien. I'm getting just a little tired of all the human species. In case of the Jaffa and the Goa'uld, it was a very interesting explanation and I think we can all live with the fact that the Ancients seeded the Pegasus Galaxy with human life aswell, but come on. This is still sci-fi! Something truly alien would be appreciated!

2) Very powerful but they must have a flaw that keeps them from wiping everyone out. Again, it was handled well with the Goa'uld in the past as they were all too arrogant to consider us a threat and were far too pre-occupied with bashing each other's heads in rather than ours.

3) I believe they should be technologically advanced to the point that their standard cruisers are equal to or a shade better than our Asgard-upgraded 304's, but they'd come in far greater numbers and have motherships that are just too big to do any considerable damage to (which makes it obvious that Earth could never ward off an assault should they choose to attack).

My idea for a good new bad guy: an alien race that was either cast out of their galaxy/part of the universe by another species or had to leave for other reasons. They take a massive fleet to move their entire people (or what's left of them) and find the Pegasus Galaxy, which they begin to colonise. They don't have any bad intentions per se, but their presence complicates things for the Pegasus Galaxy's inhabitants. Some strike back against them and are subsequently wiped out. The Atlantis crew could understand their need for a new home but there's just not enough room for them. It would be a very fragile balance as the crew wouldn't want to piss off their whole race, but don't want them take over the Pegasus Galaxy too much either.

I want a clearly bad race. No cover ups of a good motive (like the Ori[enlightenment] or wraith[need to feed]). It can be alien, but of course, they'd have to be from another galaxy. If they are human, then I'd want them to be an evil version of the Atlantis Expedition, occupying a cityship as well.

[Gaeth]

They visited his village, they invited him to Atlantis. He never did anything to them without their consent.

They didn't know he had that chemical that could control people, and it was only because of Carson who was under the control of the drug that they even allowed him there. Once in his continued presence and exposure to the chemical their will was subjugated. Just because someone can speak the words "I am free" doesn't make them free, not when there is a chemical controlling them. Also it's not just about the expedition it's also about the villagers. They did not have the ability to refuse Lucius when under the control of the chemical.