Season Five : Complaints and Misgivings

[Ruined_puzzle]

The network wants younger viewers, that age 18 to 49 is what the rave about. Atlantis, this season is up in those demos, and is likely one of the factors of the Season 5 renewal, and will likely lead to the Season 6 renewal.

You mean MALE 18-49. Cause I'm 22 and female and whoever got rid of Carson and Elizabeth obviously doesn't want me to stay and watch.

I don't think SGA will get a s6, it all depends if they get another hit show out of the ones they are making now. Caprica, The Stranded, Revolution, Warehouse 13 and True Believer. They still got Ghost Hunters and Eureka their number 1 and 2 show.

[Celcool]

Yeah, I don't think they want women in general because Torri fans are usually young women plus what they're doing on the show, like bringing in young female actors and dress them in disgustingly tight uniforms isn't exactly something that is meant to appeal to women. An there's lots of other stuff like that. The only thing they may be doing for women ATM is hooking up these random lead characters, who have known each other for a short while and BAM! They're suited to each other! Stupid, sloppy, unrealistic. These people really suck at writing believable relationships.

[gateraid]

[FONT="Georgia"] <...snip...>
Wow - 18 to 49 is a really big range, it makes me question their decisions even more I mean, there are tons of people in that range that love Carson aand Weir! My dad's in his 40s and likes all the characters, I would call him a 'casual viewer'. Meanwhile, I'm below that age range and also enjoy the super sexy six from seasons past.

I don't see how Keller is any more appealing to the 18 to 49 age demo than Carson. It's mind baffling, and if they're just saying "attracts younger viewers" I think it also alienates female viewers and the younger viewers that like 'older' (and shmexii) characters. Alienates female viewers especially from my perspective. Why aren't I seeing any hot 25 year old males brought in? Not that I want that. but there you go.

See I am a 25yr old *cough*29*cough* male who, TBH, notices things like

Spoiler:

when friends are pregnant before they announce it as one of the clinical signs (I am NOT making this up) is that their boobs get bigger. I'm not kidding. Look it up. Around the three month period (which is generally when people say anything) there is swelling in that area. Yes, sexist, perverted, but I notice things like that.

Yet I also look at Keller and think "are you kidding? This is beyond credible" I like JS, but I think she has been done a disservice in the name of pleasing the supposed target demo. And this is from someone who HATED Carson in s1 (who talks like that?). Perhaps I am atypical, but if I wanted to see what TPTB are proposing, I watch something else. I watch SGA to be stimulated on an altogether different level.

That is why I said "I think". There is no evidence. But it does give a possible reason. It also gives them an excuse. As I have said in the past, if I had to choose a leader of Atlantis, it would be to keep Weir. What I think of the show now, is not appropriate for this thread, so I'll save that for another thread.

Which one? Or PM? Pwetty Pwease??

Yes 18 to 49 is a big range. They want their audience to be under 50. Atlantis was under 50% for Season 3, now they are over 50% of people under 50 years old.

As per the fan base, it would seem they would risk the older fans leaving just to bring on a younger audience. Sad, isn't it? Whether we are Pro or Anti, it doesn't matter. I just think the whole Demo thing is screwed up when it comes to the quality of the show. A good example, They rave about Ghost Plumbers, because it pulls in a younger crowd.

But that comes back to the same old arguement - who are the target viewers and who actually spend the money? I am supposedly the target demo, and they have done everything to accomodate me this season *cough* but this is the only time I have ever downloaded anything. But I guess I am in the minority.

[elliecat]

Yeah, I don't think they want women in general because Torri fans are usually young women plus what they're doing on the show, like bringing in young female actors and dress them in disgustingly tight uniforms isn't exactly something that is meant to appeal to women. An there's lots of other stuff like that. The only thing they may be doing for women ATM is hooking up these random lead characters, who have known each other for a short while and BAM! They're suited to each other! Stupid, sloppy, unrealistic. These people really suck at writing believable relationships.

See, that really ticks me off! Why do these network people not care about their female viewers, do they think we don't have any money, are we not 'cool' enough? I would love an answer as to why tv etc is nearly always aimed at men! And they think that to keep the women happy then they must make sappy 'relationships' as if that's the only thing women are into, what a cheek! I personally hate any shipping it puts me off the show if anything. Don't they know anything about women?!!!!

[Celcool]

Well, I like shipping, they just have to be the right characters with chemistry who get together, like John and Elizabeth for example or Ronon and Teyla. Those two relationships would make sense to me.

[elliecat]

Well, I like shipping, they just have to be the right characters with chemistry who get together, like John and Elizabeth for example or Ronon and Teyla. Those two relationships would make sense to me.

I must admit I don't mind Ronon and Teyla coz there is chemistry there but it's mainly the whole Keller shipping that has bothered me, she does not have chemistry with Ronon or Rodney imho.

[gateraid]

Well, I like shipping, they just have to be the right characters with chemistry who get together, like John and Elizabeth for example or Ronon and Teyla. Those two relationships would make sense to me.

I NEVER liked shipping (relationshipping or actual spaceships) until SGA 1-3. I did everything I could to avoid it. But from my very first viewing of SGA, I automatically shipped characters (apparently not the 'chosen' ones, much like yourself). IDK if that's a change in me, a change in the writing, or something else. It's certainly not the only reason I watch, but in SGA it's a big part, whereas it wasn't in SG1

[Celcool]

I must admit I don't mind Ronon and Teyla coz there is chemistry there but it's mainly the whole Keller shipping that has bothered me, she does not have chemistry with Ronon or Rodney imho.

I don't like Keller at all so I wouldn't want to watch her with any man on the show. Yuck. lol And I see Ronon with Teyla so any other woman is unnecessary when you already found a good match for him. I personally don't find McKay a shipping material, let alone with a character I dislike so that pairing TPTB chose "for me" doesn't work for me either.

[Celcool]

I NEVER liked shipping (relationshipping or actual spaceships) until SGA 1-3. I did everything I could to avoid it. But from my very first viewing of SGA, I automatically shipped characters (apparently not the 'chosen' ones, much like yourself). IDK if that's a change in me, a change in the writing, or something else. It's certainly not the only reason I watch, but in SGA it's a big part, whereas it wasn't in SG1

That's the power of Sparky as I like to say.

I did ship before. In SGA, I saw the connection between John and Elizabeth right away, they became a huge appeal for me in the show. Even when the plots weren't to my liking I watched for them.

[Skydiver]

They've said before that they're writing a show that THEY like,

and this is part of the problem. their job isn't to make what THEY like, it's to make what a majority of VIEWERS want to watch.

and the writers don't seem to share the same mindset as your average viewer

So then the goal to attracting more viewers in that coveted 18-49 range is to put Woolsey in charge of Atlantis?

Personally? i think the decision to 'hire' woolsey has more to do with the writers liking Picardo and having the 'coup' of having a trek actor on the show and using his name familiarity to promote the show.

I think it was more a financial and work atmosphere decision than it was a 'this will fit great in the show' decision.

they decided to take the easy way out and go with a known entity than do something different....probably well aware of the tremendous instability of the recent cast changes and desperate to do something to shore it up

[Southern Red]

If you want to blame the changes to the show, you should also blame the network and advertisers also. At the same time though, they are the reasons why we have TV shows on TV.

Oh, believe me, we do.

and hypothetically this might happen if a certain hypothetical PTB who didn't like said hypothetical actors character in the first place and who was hypothetically stuck thinking that the show in question and character in question were meant to be exactly like another hypothetical show; were to hypothetically become the show runner. Hypothetically.

You are correct. Except it's not so much the character they have a problem with as the actor. Hypothetically.

Yes 18 to 49 is a big range. They want their audience to be under 50. Atlantis was under 50% for Season 3, now they are over 50% of people under 50 years old.

As per the fan base, it would seem they would risk the older fans leaving just to bring on a younger audience. Sad, isn't it? Whether we are Pro or Anti, it doesn't matter. I just think the whole Demo thing is screwed up when it comes to the quality of the show. A good example, They rave about Ghost Plumbers, because it pulls in a younger crowd.

Interesting that they don't want my age group. Arrogantly, we baby boomers think we invented SciFi. We were reading Arthur C. Clarke (may he rest in peace) and Ray Bradbury when TPTB and the SciFi execs were still in diapers. I was a SciFi geek before it was cool. I hung out with the AV club and read LOTR when the other girls were reading Nancy Drew. Everyone I know my age for the most part loves SciFi and everyone I know is also disappointed in S4. I even found someone new the other day, a mother of college age kids who's the most ungeeky person I know. Loves SciFi in any form.

I talked to my son this weekend about it. I use him as my test of what the casual viewer thinks because he watches a variety of shows and is...well...really smart. He thinks the programming for the young male by showing more boobs is ridiculous and had a good point that I wouldn't have thought of. He said guys can see boobs anytime they want to. They don't watch SciFi to see hot women. They watch for good plots and interesting characters and yes, the 'splosions. We talked about Babylon 5 which he remembers watching as a teen, and he said he thinks Ivanova is a lot hotter than Teyla because you have to pay attention to her character. She was well written and interesting. Guys, is he right?

But sadly, the execs at every network are in a rut and will never change.

Yeah, I don't think they want women in general because Torri fans are usually young women plus what they're doing on the show, like bringing in young female actors and dress them in disgustingly tight uniforms isn't exactly something that is meant to appeal to women. An there's lots of other stuff like that. The only thing they may be doing for women ATM is hooking up these random lead characters, who have known each other for a short while and BAM! They're suited to each other! Stupid, sloppy, unrealistic. These people really suck at writing believable relationships.

Since TPTB and most of the execs are probably men, this will never change.

I don't like Keller at all so I wouldn't want to watch her with any man on the show. Yuck. lol And I see Ronon with Teyla so any other woman is unnecessary when you already found a good match for him. I personally don't find McKay a shipping material, let alone with a character I dislike so that pairing TPTB chose "for me" doesn't work for me either.

Didn't one of TPTB once say that Ronon/Teyla would be too obvious? So there 'ya go.

Oh, and back to something someone said about SciFi and their influence on the show. Witness the recent temper tantrum by a certain producer when the SciFi notes were not to his liking. The close knit group there at Bridge has tunnel vision.

[Ice Wolf]

You are correct. Except it's not so much the character they have a problem with as the actor. Hypothetically.

Hypothetically having already not liked the character would have made killing it off when the actor started questioning said characters writing a no-brainer for the PTB in question, no matter the love everyone else may have hypothetically had for said actor/character. Hypothetically

I talked to my son this weekend about it. I use him as my test of what the casual viewer thinks because he watches a variety of shows and is...well...really smart. He thinks the programming for the young male by showing more boobs is ridiculous and had a good point that I wouldn't have thought of. He said guys can see boobs anytime they want to. They don't watch SciFi to see hot women. They watch for good plots and interesting characters and yes, the 'splosions. We talked about Babylon 5 which he remembers watching as a teen, and he said he thinks Ivanova is a lot hotter than Teyla because you have to pay attention to her character. She was well written and interesting. Guys, is he right?

Your son is write, we can get boobs elsewhere if we want, sci-fi is meant to have intelligent writing as has be said before Explosions for a reason. Sci-Fi is meant to make you think not roll eyes. Ivanova was great cause of the writing but also cause of the actors performance (I loved when she made her Ivonava speeches i.e. talking about herself in the third-person). The Atlantis PTB had an actor that brought that to their performance and made the character much more than the drek that was written on the page and for whatever stupid reason decided to get rid of said actor and character instead of embracing it to make better television. Instead they removed the character seemingly not thinking what effect it would have on the other characters, one in particular lost a lot of what made it 3-dimensional. Sheppard was much better with Weir in the show. Both characters brought out something from each other which is sorely missed.

But what would I know I'm only a 24yr old male with a lot of disposable income, it's not like they are targeting my demographic

[Southern Red]

But what would I know I'm only a 24yr old male with a lot of disposable income, it's not like they are targeting my demographic

And my son is a 30 year old male in the same situation. He grew up with SciFi, but now watches SGA when he remembers. Though he did say it got better toward the end of S4 and assumed the baby arc was just to accommodate RL, and the babydaddy will magically disappear in S5 so they can do a 3 men and a baby episode and then make Shep the de facto babydaddy. So, see he doesn't just say what I want to hear. Even threatening to withhold dessert wouldn't make him take it back.

[Jackie]

Why do you think Carson was replaced by Keller? Why do you think Carson returned to a recurring status role? It was heavily influenced by the network. Joe M has even said Mark Stern was the cause for Carson returning back to recurring status! Why? The network wants younger viewers, that age 18 to 49 is what the rave about. Atlantis, this season is up in those demos, and is likely one of the factors of the Season 5 renewal, and will likely lead to the Season 6 renewal.

We can complain all we want. But, we have to remember it is 90% business and 10% show! Keller for an example attracted younger viewers, and the network realized even though Carson(Paul McGillion) is older he likely attracted young viewers as well.

If you want to blame the changes to the show, you should also blame the network and advertisers also. At the same time though, they are the reasons why we have TV shows on TV.

I also think this is the reason why Weir was reduced then written out of the show. I've learned a lot with how ratings work. Sadly, us fans are at their mercy. It doesn't matter if you love this show, if the show is not hitting it's demos it will be suggested by the network to change things around, or they will cancel the show. When a show is as big as Atlantis with an established fan base, an adjustment is the smarter move.

Read what Dave Howe said in this recent article...

http://www.variety.com/article/VR111...&cs=1&nid=2562



My point to my rant, don't just blame the producers if you are upset with the direction. It is not 100 percent their fault.

You mean MALE 18-49. Cause I'm 22 and female and whoever got rid of Carson and Elizabeth obviously doesn't want me to stay and watch.

I don't think SGA will get a s6, it all depends if they get another hit show out of the ones they are making now. Caprica, The Stranded, Revolution, Warehouse 13 and True Believer. They still got Ghost Hunters and Eureka their number 1 and 2 show.

Yeah, I don't think they want women in general because Torri fans are usually young women plus what they're doing on the show, like bringing in young female actors and dress them in disgustingly tight uniforms isn't exactly something that is meant to appeal to women. An there's lots of other stuff like that. The only thing they may be doing for women ATM is hooking up these random lead characters, who have known each other for a short while and BAM! They're suited to each other! Stupid, sloppy, unrealistic. These people really suck at writing believable relationships.

See, that really ticks me off! Why do these network people not care about their female viewers, do they think we don't have any money, are we not 'cool' enough? I would love an answer as to why tv etc is nearly always aimed at men! And they think that to keep the women happy then they must make sappy 'relationships' as if that's the only thing women are into, what a cheek! I personally hate any shipping it puts me off the show if anything. Don't they know anything about women?!!!!

There is one simple reason why skiffy and sci-fi genre in general have made the 18-40 year old white male demographic their target audience. MONEY!

Most unfortunately, the sci-fi genre has gotten stuck in a rut where they STILL think the only audience members with MONEY TO SPEND on DVD's, action figures and memorabilia is in fact, males.

The proof is in the marketing! Look at the stargate action figures. they are not called "dolls" my word that would be too girly and men don't buy dolls...they buy Action Figures. Skiffy is following the old "standby" demographic from decades ago that had the mind set of males having the money to spend on added features and extras.

What makes Stargate a franchise is not the number of series...it's the toys and the marketing. Stargate has a lot of merchandise for a little TV show and who is all that merchandise aimed at? Men!

The old way of thought (the girls would rather buy a dress than a dvd) is still planted in tptb mind and even though the demographic is drastically changing to include women and viewers of all ages...the marketing has not!
This trend in the marketing is sooo bad that there are cases where a sci-fi writer who is female has to use a male pen name becuase the publishers are afraid no one will buy the book if it was written by a woman.

Ironic how sci-fi genre could be so sexist and so far behind the times when it comes to marketing and yet sci-fi in general is looked upon by many as a peephole into the future and how women and minorities are supposed rival their male counterparts in power and respect.

Sci-fi genre in general is sexist, they are also racist (how many times do you see a black captain or CO that is well liked and loved.) this genre will continue to be like this as long as they continue to value, white males with money to burn over all their other viewers.

The best way to fight this...is to boycott the marketing! But that will never happen. People love their toys, their DVD's, their collectors editions. If there was a boycott of Stargate memorabilia with a direct message stating that we are sick of the demographic racism and sexism then tptb might pay attention when it hits them in licensing royalties.

[Reiko]

You mean MALE 18-49. Cause I'm 22 and female and whoever got rid of Carson and Elizabeth obviously doesn't want me to stay and watch.

Exactly what I brought up in my last post. It seems they are alienating female viewers like me - and intellegent viewers - by eliminating the two best characters on the show IMHO. Carson and Elizabeth had a huge female fan base (look at the campaigns, fans and complainers - pretty much all women) and by removing them you're taking out two characters that appeal to a very large demographic.

Yeah, I don't think they want women in general because Torri fans are usually young women plus what they're doing on the show, like bringing in young female actors and dress them in disgustingly tight uniforms isn't exactly something that is meant to appeal to women.

What I've noticed too. Apparently Torri is too "old" and isn't in the position to be dressed suggestively. Elizabeth is a female character I look up too. Carson is a male character I look up to and those are really hard to find these days. Wow, I'm looking up to fictional characters Thanks for killing it, TPTB and Skiffy