Teyla's Baby

[ciannwn]

ciannwn, I'll address your post tomorrow, since I do have some answers I'd like to put up.

Maybe it will be easier if I just put my thoughts about Teyla's baby's brain in one shortish post. You don't have to agree with me but it should explain the way I'm approaching the puzzle.

Spoiler:

1: DNA is like a blueprint for building a body.

http://www.microbeworld.org/know/dna.aspx

It is the genetic blueprint, or recipe, for making all living things. Almost every cell in your body contains DNA and all the information needed to make you what you are, from the way you look to which hand you write with.

Teyla's Wraith DNA has given her Wraith telepathic abilities. It's logical to assume that some part of her brain is constructed on the Wraith pattern enough for her to be able to tune into the Wraith telepathic network. Her normal, everyday sensing ability is an extremely toned down version of this because she doesn't hear their thoughts unless she makes an effort to tune in.

2: In 'Be All My Sins' we learn the following -

SHEPPARD: ...How ... far along are you?

TEYLA: About three months.

'Spoils Of War' continues from where 'Be All My Sins' ended so Teyla is still about three months pregnant in this story.

3: Everyone thinks Teyla's baby is human with, perhaps, a bit of Wraith DNA which will give it Wraith telepathic abilities once it's brain is fully developed. What they'd be expecting the fetus to be like at Teyla's stage of pregnancy would be something on these lines depending on how many weeks 'about three months' actually is. This could be 12, 13 or maybe 14 weeks. (15 weeks would be nearer four months.)

http://www.umm.edu/ency/article/002398.htm

This page has further links to a bit of extra detail. I won't give every single link but people can double check things for themselves if they want to.

It's between 3 and 6 inches long. It's learned how to make a fist and suck its thumb. It's got some kind of a brain but it's still rudimentary at the moment - it won't enter the rapid brain development stage until around week 25. If it's got Wraith DNA the part of its brain responsible for 'telepathic abilities' should also be in a rudimentary state.

4: The Queen tells Teyla - "You cannot resist me for long. Combined, your two minds are very powerful.."

If Teyla mentioned that her baby's mind helped her to control the Queen, someone ought to be thinking this is a bit odd. A human fetus between 12 and 14 weeks old doesn't have a brain capable of producing much in the way of mind let alone one which is powerful enough to help Teyla overcome a Wraith Queen.

[vaberella]

Maybe it will be easier if I just put my thoughts about Teyla's baby's brain in one shortish post. You don't have to agree with me but it should explain the way I'm approaching the puzzle.

Spoiler:

1: DNA is like a blueprint for building a body.

http://www.microbeworld.org/know/dna.aspx

It is the genetic blueprint, or recipe, for making all living things. Almost every cell in your body contains DNA and all the information needed to make you what you are, from the way you look to which hand you write with.

Teyla's Wraith DNA has given her Wraith telepathic abilities. It's logical to assume that some part of her brain is constructed on the Wraith pattern enough for her to be able to tune into the Wraith telepathic network. Her normal, everyday sensing ability is an extremely toned down version of this because she doesn't hear their thoughts unless she makes an effort to tune in.

2: In 'Be All My Sins' we learn the following -

SHEPPARD: ...How ... far along are you?

TEYLA: About three months.

'Spoils Of War' continues from where 'Be All My Sins' ended so Teyla is still about three months pregnant in this story.

3: Everyone thinks Teyla's baby is human with, perhaps, a bit of Wraith DNA which will give it Wraith telepathic abilities once it's brain is fully developed. What they'd be expecting the fetus to be like at Teyla's stage of pregnancy would be something on these lines depending on how many weeks 'about three months' actually is. This could be 12, 13 or maybe 14 weeks. (15 weeks would be nearer four months.)

http://www.umm.edu/ency/article/002398.htm

This page has further links to a bit of extra detail. I won't give every single link but people can double check things for themselves if they want to.

It's between 3 and 6 inches long. It's learned how to make a fist and suck its thumb. It's got some kind of a brain but it's still rudimentary at the moment - it won't enter the rapid brain development stage until around week 25. If it's got Wraith DNA the part of its brain responsible for 'telepathic abilities' should also be in a rudimentary state.

4: The Queen tells Teyla - "You cannot resist me for long. Combined, your two minds are very powerful.."

If Teyla mentioned that her baby's mind helped her to control the Queen, someone ought to be thinking this is a bit odd. A human fetus between 12 and 14 weeks old doesn't have a brain capable of producing much in the way of mind let alone one which is powerful enough to help Teyla overcome a Wraith Queen.

Don't worry. I never write posts in hopes of agreement, so I can respect another individual's posts as their own form of contemplation.

Okay, I'll make a few comments, because you're touching on things that I've tread upon that I see you recognize but then you choose to ignore it time and time again.


First off let's make something clear. Teyla is not your "traditional human", secondly no matter if the "father" is human there is no way this child can be normal (even if birthing is normal by our estimation) because of the mother.

I see you're aware of this but you continously choose to ignore the pervasive importance of just that factor alone. You can't put our own human make up to generalize Teyla. This is what I refrain from in my post. I try to focus more on what we've learned in SGA about the Wraith and Teyla. I'm not saying it's a good model, because it gives you an idea, but you have to see this see this is scifi and as such it has to be looked at more 'fantastically.'

This is far from black and white and of course I'm making no claim that my direction is correct, but looking at what we can gather from the episodes as 'fantastical' as it may seem it is not confusing or hard to see it as plausible.

1. I don't know how toned down it is. Because the Wraith can keep their thoughts from their own. That has been established. Take for instance the Wraith in Allies. They said they "could" send out notice to other wraith ships but chose not too---this was the importance of their thread. So her situation is mainly keeping control versus giving her mind up for their puppeteering.

Plus, I think there is a natural mechanism that has been passed down through her lineage---they've become mentally stronger to keep out the Wraith thoughts. Her earlier ancestors weren't able to do that...they were overrun by thoughts of the wraith which led to moments of madness. Check "The Gift". Enfin, her distinct ability was a counter condition to protect her mind---which as mentioned conditioned through her lineage. The fact she needs to make an effort actually is a good thing versus a weakness.

However, I do agree that it can be safe to assume the Wraith gene is part of her brain construction.


2. JM has said in his blog that there is about 2 weeks time lapse between each episode. That's why when I look at Michael I assume several months must have went by for the retro-virus monitoring, and then the moment where he was deemed healthy but under supervision, to the time that he was released and given an identity, until of course the time he was able to find out who he was. He was able to recon a lot of information....that demanded time and acess to quite a bit of information. Another great example is to rewatch NML, McKay makes mention of a huge amount of time passage in regards to Teyla's Wraith ship training during a debriefing with Weir.

Taking that into consideration that's about 3 months probably more so 4 and passing there. You have to look at the ep and see if time was demanded. Logical processing has to give time lapses within the episode not only between the eps. However, to make this easier I'll agree to your 3 months.


3. Why would you say that it's wraith part would be "rudimentary"? I think you take a lot of liberty with Wraith dna and what affect it can have on a fetus. Physiological changes doesn't mean that biological and really mental abilities don't surpass them--especially considering wraith dna involved. I won't deny that the wraith do have humnoid experience as children, since I've mentioned it quite a bit. However, we don't know the extent of their mental state even if physically and to survive they have human functions early on. You're basing this entirely on a human child and not taking into consideration or really you're disregarding how active the wraith gene is during the time of gestation. This is something none of us can fully argue because we don't know much about Wraith birthing or Wraith Queen births anyway, and if that really has any affect on Teyla.

However, after SoW, we can establish that the Wraith gene is fundamental and even if the body is basically human the brain activity of the child is far more advanced than normal---this is established in canon and can not be ignored---so we can't place Earth "human" functions entirely to those of the Wraith gene or Wriath in general.


4. There's one fundamental difference between a human fetus and Teyla's fetus at this point. Teyla's fetus is not as human as we would like to think it is...which is why I don't think Kanan is the father of parasite. This thing is a creature. Of course I would expect something off with the creature considering it's mother. But the extent we're seeing something off and the power of the mental state the parasite is more powerful than expected. Which is what I've been saying from the beginning. It can't be fully human and never would it be, this would be the case if Kanan is the father or not.



As I said early on and to reiterate...no matter who the father is the parasite will not have Teyla experiencing a normal birth. The parasite cannot be normal because the Mother is not normal and canon has not said that the gene skips a generation. Cronica, it would be safe to say the parasitic life form gestating within Teyla isn't like you or me and NEVER would be.

[cabouse18]

Can we all agree that this is Scifi and they tend to bend all known rules of genetics, biology and other things??

After seeing the promo for Kindered.....

Spoiler:

I am massively confused how the replicators seem to fit in, what is has to do with Michael and now, sorry to say, I might actually be leaning towards her kid is normal Is anyone else like WTF????

and perosnally......and this is just my opinion.......

Spoiler:

I think they never should have wrote the pregnancy into the show....hell it would have been more plausible for her to have disappeared with her people or they could have had her split ties with Atlantis to search for her people and then they find her in Search and Rescue.

We practically don't get any Teyla now as it is....so what would have been the difference?

[ciannwn]

I see you're aware of this but you continously choose to ignore the pervasive importance of just that factor alone. You can't put our own human make up to generalize Teyla.

Spoiler:

I was talking about the SGA characters not finding anything strange about Teyla's baby even though a lot of viewers do. In my last post I said - "Everyone thinks Teyla's baby is human with, perhaps, a bit of Wraith DNA which will give it Wraith telepathic abilities once it's brain is fully developed. What they'd be expecting the fetus to be like at Teyla's stage of pregnancy would be ..." I then went on to give a few examples of what they'd be expecting from a normally developing human fetus with a bit of Wraith DNA. A couple of things in 'The Gift' suggest why they appear to expect this.

BECKETT: I ran every test I could on all of you from the get-go. Physiologically, you and your people are the same as we are. I have no explanation for any of your special super-powers.

After Beckett has discovered that Teyla has some Wraith DNA we get the following -

SHEPPARD: You're saying Teyla's part-Wraith?!

BECKETT: A very small part.

WEIR (to John): Which makes her about as different from us as you, because of the Ancient gene you possess.

Jumping to your last paragraph because it fits here.

The parasite cannot be normal because the Mother is not normal

The Atlantis characters seem to think that Teyla is as normal as Sheppard as far as being human goes. This suggests that they're regarding Teyla's baby in the same way because they believe another Athosian is the father.

JM has said in his blog that there is about 2 weeks time lapse between each episode.

Taking that into consideration that's about 3 months probably more so 4 and passing there. You have to look at the ep and see if time was demanded.

We can narrow things down a bit within the 'Be All My Sins' story. Sheppard and co. go with Todd to the hive and then on to see Larrin. The Larrin interview ends with her leaving the room while Sheppard is still tied to the chair. The next scene is where Zelenka discovers that Rodney has created Fran although she doesn't have her name yet.

The scene after that is Sheppard and co. returning to the city. This is where Teyla reveals that she's about three months pregnant. We can't pinpoint the exact day but it must be somewhere around the 12 week mark. A few weeks more and she'd have reported that she was about four months pregnant. There would be some time needed for Larrin to get to Atlantis but the conference doesn't take long and the Daedalus, Apollo and Larrin's ship set off to join the Wraith and other Traveller ships immediately afterwards. The battle itself can't have taken days.

In 'Spoils' -

McKAY: It's only been a week since the battle

He then points out the flashing dot that's Todd's tracking device. The signal is monitored for nearly 24 hours and then they decide to investigate. The rest depends on how long it takes to reach the hive, get some repairs done while Sheppard returns to Atlantis for Teyla etc.

''Quarantine' is the story after 'Spoils'. Going by the size of Teyla's bump it's been more than two weeks since the end of the last episode. (Hopefully, she won't have shrunk a bit the next time we see her because of continuity problems. )

She has a happy experience while trapped with Sheppard.

(Turning to look around the room, she suddenly turns back and stares down at her stomach wide-eyed. John sees her expression and stops, staring at her nervously. She looks up at him briefly, then down at her stomach again and gasps. John points to her anxiously.)

(Teyla smiles.)

TEYLA: The baby just kicked.

This comes across to me as the first time that she's actually felt the baby kicking. Estimates vary as to when this would be because it depends on how the mother interprets the first sensations that she can actually feel.

Baby's Movements

For a first pregnancy you will probably be aware of something at around 18 to 20 weeks. For subsequent pregnancies, when you know the tell-tale signs, first movements can be felt earlier, at around 15 to 18 weeks.

Working backwards we can get an idea of what age the fetus wasn't during 'Spoils'.

Normal development as far as size goes is suggested by Teyla not feeling it kicking until 'Quarantine'. Even if she was four months pregnant during 'Spoils' the fetus would have been about 6 inches long A 6 inch long fetus doesn't have a big enough head to hold much in the way of brain matter.

The expedition members don't appear to have changed their views of Teyla being no more different from 'normal' than Sheppard is and they seem to be treating the baby as normal for someone like Teyla as far as development goes. They've seen Teyla engaged in telepathic contact with Wraith and they know she can be taken over even though she has an adult, fully developed brain. Her baby, which they appear to be assuming has the same amount of Wraith DNA as Teyla, has a tiny little brain. The Wraith Queen tells Teyla "Combined, your two minds are very powerful.."

I just find it odd that the other characters aren't thinking ???? at the baby being able help it's mother control a Wraith Queen. Shouldn't they be wondering why a tiny little human brain with a bit of Wraith DNA has a mind powerful enough to increase the abilities of an adult human brain with the same bit of Wraith DNA? Why doesn't anyone appear to be thinking that maybe the tiny little brain could be less human than Teyla's?

There's one fundamental difference between a human fetus and Teyla's fetus at this point. Teyla's fetus is not as human as we would like to think it is...which is why I don't think Kanan is the father of parasite. This thing is a creature.

The SGA characters do appear to think that the baby is as human as Teyla is, though. Nobody seems to be considering the possibility that it isn't as human as it ought to be and suggesting that Kanan mightn't be the father.

Of course I would expect something off with the creature considering it's mother. But the extent we're seeing something off and the power of the mental state the parasite is more powerful than expected. Which is what I've been saying from the beginning.

I agree with you and that's why I think it's odd that the SGA characters don't seem to think its mental state is more powerful than expected. I even said I thought it was odd at the very end of my last post. Unlike us viewers they don't have the advantage of being able to read spoilers for future episodes but even so, they seem to be taking an awful lot for granted.

[vaberella]

Can we all agree that this is Scifi and they tend to bend all known rules of genetics, biology and other things??

That's actually been my point all along.

After seeing the promo for Kindered.....

Spoiler:

I am massively confused how the replicators seem to fit in, what is has to do with Michael and now, sorry to say, I might actually be leaning towards her kid is normal Is anyone else like WTF????

That's whats great about scifi. It's not supposed to make "sense". Well no matter what it's not normal. But the spoilers actually made me think that it's far from human.

and perosnally......and this is just my opinion.......

Spoiler:

I think they never should have wrote the pregnancy into the show....hell it would have been more plausible for her to have disappeared with her people or they could have had her split ties with Atlantis to search for her people and then they find her in Search and Rescue.

We practically don't get any Teyla now as it is....so what would have been the difference?

Spoiler:

Many people have said the same thing. I have no problems with the pregnancy, because the writers had a valid reason for doing what they did considering what was going on in real life. I just don't want the kid to survive, since I feel it would just dominate the Teyla storyline and we lose Teyla to a baby. As I've said before, there are quite a bit of problems that arise from it, especially considering the fact that Teyla is not one of the most fleshed out characters; if at all.

The Teyla story was to be far more fleshed out and better formatted and having the pregnancy take a backseat than become the most pervasive part of the story. Unfortunately fandom and basically the storyline actually makes her pregnancy pervasive. Cronica, things then become revovled around the pregnancy rather than around Teyla. The character takes a backseat and unfortunately, yeah I feel she has.

I've even said that the problem also I have is the fact that Teyla is not really developed. People seem to be taking notice, but not of anything that wasn't in place before. I see people going, Teyla was great in a scene...and as a Teyla fan in the past I'm like where is this greatness coming from?! Its not something that already isn't established and part of the character. The character is not taken on a really unique avenue to garner development yet. She's just same old Teyla with maybe a few more words in a few episodes.

Some scenes of her I thought was totally worthless and unnecessary. As I said, I recognize why the writers did what they did. Unforunately I don't think they were successful in keeping Teyla, but lost her to keep her baby storyline viable.

[vaberella]

Spoiler:

I was talking about the SGA characters not finding anything strange about Teyla's baby even though a lot of viewers do. In my last post I said - "Everyone thinks Teyla's baby is human with, perhaps, a bit of Wraith DNA which will give it Wraith telepathic abilities once it's brain is fully developed. What they'd be expecting the fetus to be like at Teyla's stage of pregnancy would be ..." I then went on to give a few examples of what they'd be expecting from a normally developing human fetus with a bit of Wraith DNA. A couple of things in 'The Gift' suggest why they appear to expect this.

BECKETT: I ran every test I could on all of you from the get-go. Physiologically, you and your people are the same as we are. I have no explanation for any of your special super-powers.

After Beckett has discovered that Teyla has some Wraith DNA we get the following -

SHEPPARD: You're saying Teyla's part-Wraith?!

BECKETT: A very small part.

WEIR (to John): Which makes her about as different from us as you, because of the Ancient gene you possess.

Jumping to your last paragraph because it fits here.


The Atlantis characters seem to think that Teyla is as normal as Sheppard as far as being human goes. This suggests that they're regarding Teyla's baby in the same way because they believe another Athosian is the father.

I never denied that and actually put that in many of my previous posts. So I'm trying to see where you're going with it?! Since you were demanding why they don't know. And I explained using the above reasons why the lead actors might not question or wonder about Teyla's pregnancy too much.

I also mentioned they don't have the equipment and full on knowledge of Wraith neonates to also make any other speculative ideas besides that it's human. So, even if the kid is NOT human, there is too much information contrary and saying that it is human that they would never question the pregnancy or wonder about certain aspects of the child. The brain function of a human child cannot explain the brain function of a child with wraith dna---and one that may have been medically fooled around with.

Spoiler:

We can narrow things down a bit within the 'Be All My Sins' story. Sheppard and co. go with Todd to the hive and then on to see Larrin. The Larrin interview ends with her leaving the room while Sheppard is still tied to the chair. The next scene is where Zelenka discovers that Rodney has created Fran although she doesn't have her name yet.

The scene after that is Sheppard and co. returning to the city. This is where Teyla reveals that she's about three months pregnant. We can't pinpoint the exact day but it must be somewhere around the 12 week mark. A few weeks more and she'd have reported that she was about four months pregnant. There would be some time needed for Larrin to get to Atlantis but the conference doesn't take long and the Daedalus, Apollo and Larrin's ship set off to join the Wraith and other Traveller ships immediately afterwards. The battle itself can't have taken days.

In 'Spoils' -

McKAY: It's only been a week since the battle

He then points out the flashing dot that's Todd's tracking device. The signal is monitored for nearly 24 hours and then they decide to investigate. The rest depends on how long it takes to reach the hive, get some repairs done while Sheppard returns to Atlantis for Teyla etc.

''Quarantine' is the story after 'Spoils'. Going by the size of Teyla's bump it's been more than two weeks since the end of the last episode. (Hopefully, she won't have shrunk a bit the next time we see her because of continuity problems. )

She has a happy experience while trapped with Sheppard.

(Turning to look around the room, she suddenly turns back and stares down at her stomach wide-eyed. John sees her expression and stops, staring at her nervously. She looks up at him briefly, then down at her stomach again and gasps. John points to her anxiously.)

(Teyla smiles.)

TEYLA: The baby just kicked.

This comes across to me as the first time that she's actually felt the baby kicking. Estimates vary as to when this would be because it depends on how the mother interprets the first sensations that she can actually feel.

Baby's Movements

For a first pregnancy you will probably be aware of something at around 18 to 20 weeks. For subsequent pregnancies, when you know the tell-tale signs, first movements can be felt earlier, at around 15 to 18 weeks.

Working backwards we can get an idea of what age the fetus wasn't during 'Spoils'.

I don't see the point of all this. As I said, JM has said in his blog there are about 2 week intervals in posts and I made mention that logical pathways can also say that WITHIN eps there are times periods that go by. So I see you've said a lot, and I'll assume you just wanted to prove that she's 3 months along nearly 4. I said she was probably nearly 4 passing the 3 month mark, but that's subjective since we're basing it on speculative knowledge. I'm not saying it's incorrect because I did the same, but there was no reason to go on and on about it since I said we'll use the 3 month mark as a valid estimation even if it's not mentioned in the storyline.

Normal development as far as size goes is suggested by Teyla not feeling it kicking until 'Quarantine'. Even if she was four months pregnant during 'Spoils' the fetus would have been about 6 inches long A 6 inch long fetus doesn't have a big enough head to hold much in the way of brain matter.

You forget about wraith dna which can't be ignored. You just go on this normal kick which isn't possible since SoW confirmed that the child ISN'T normal.

Spoiler:

The expedition members don't appear to have changed their views of Teyla being no more different from 'normal' than Sheppard is and they seem to be treating the baby as normal for someone like Teyla as far as development goes. They've seen Teyla engaged in telepathic contact with Wraith and they know she can be taken over even though she has an adult, fully developed brain. Her baby, which they appear to be assuming has the same amount of Wraith DNA as Teyla, has a tiny little brain. The Wraith Queen tells Teyla "Combined, your two minds are very powerful.."

I just find it odd that the other characters aren't thinking ???? at the baby being able help it's mother control a Wraith Queen. Shouldn't they be wondering why a tiny little human brain with a bit of Wraith DNA has a mind powerful enough to increase the abilities of an adult human brain with the same bit of Wraith DNA? Why doesn't anyone appear to be thinking that maybe the tiny little brain could be less human than Teyla's?

Probably again because they don't have the full knowledge of the wraith gene. And actually don't see this as being odd for those like Teyla. We don't know anything about Teyla's own mother and her pregnancy. They could see this as being very normal for her. You and many people as well as the characters keep pushing this "bit of Wraith DNA". I think that's one of the things the writers are using but have established that her Wraith dna is far from a bit. AGain as I mentioned Carson could not define how much Wraith DNA makes up Teyla. The Wraith themselves were believed to be humans at some point. Add that to genetic modification with humans using Wraith DNA there's no telling the magnitude of the Wraith DNA in the human body. Beckett himself even said that he'd need to do genetic mapping and needing samples.

I think you're taking a lot for granted. As I mentioned check out Epiphany. Her Wraith DNA provided her the ability to sense other entities that a NORMAL human could not. Look again at Instinct...she could sense something decidedly different about Ellia versus the other Wraith running around. Go back to Rising II and The Gift, they established that Teyla's physiology is decidedly different and far superior than the NORMAL human. Yes, she has all things human but she is NOT and extremely far from being a NORMAL human.

These things have to be recognized. I'll assume Beckett never had a chance to do full indepth study of Teyla as she is, and I'm sure the equipment is definitely not up to par to do it and the samples were most definitely not enough. You allowed yourself to believe that it's tiny when in fact the show goes further to make it far from small.

Other than not feeding off of humans, Teyla has many Wraith like abilities.

The SGA characters do appear to think that the baby is as human as Teyla is, though. Nobody seems to be considering the possibility that it isn't as human as it ought to be and suggesting that Kanan mightn't be the father.

And that's the beauty and adds to the stupidity of the characters that have been established since S1. Kanan could very well be the father, but the parasite would never be normal because of the mother. And SoW, again verifies that the fetus cannot be normal even if the rest of the characters just put it down to a "Teyla thing".

Spoiler:

I agree with you and that's why I think it's odd that the SGA characters don't seem to think its mental state is more powerful than expected. I even said I thought it was odd at the very end of my last post. Unlike us viewers they don't have the advantage of being able to read spoilers for future episodes but even so, they seem to be taking an awful lot for granted.

I don't. They've proven they're idiots time and time again.

You're just giving them far more credit than they rightly deserve.

[ciannwn]

You just go on this normal kick which isn't possible since SoW confirmed that the child ISN'T normal.

Spoiler:

I'm not saying that the child is normal. A fetus having a mind powerful enough to help control a Wraith Queen is definitely not normal.

You and many people as well as the characters keep pushing this "bit of Wraith DNA".

Whenever I said a 'bit of Wraith DNA' I was intending it to be read as meaning what the Stargate characters seem to be thinking, not what I was thinking.

AGain as I mentioned Carson could not define how much Wraith DNA makes up Teyla. The Wraith themselves were believed to be humans at some point. Add that to genetic modification with humans using Wraith DNA there's no telling the magnitude of the Wraith DNA in the human body. Beckett himself even said that he'd need to do genetic mapping and needing samples.

According to what Beckett said in 'The Gift' he did acquire some Wraith cells and get the mapping process underway.

Beckett: We needed Wraith cells, which we eventually got,but then we need a full mapping of the genetic code contained within those cells, which wasn't even fifty percent complete ...

This appears to mean that Beckett managed to find Teyla's Wraith DNA while the Wraith mapping process was still under 50% complete. I'm guessing he's supposed to have compared this partial map with Teyla's genetic makeup. Maybe he did miss something if he didn't do another comparison when the Wraith gene map was 100% complete. As for believing the Wraith to be humans at some point, he wasn't thinking that in 'The Gift'.

McKAY: But I thought you already said they had a number of genetic characteristics similar to humans.

BECKETT: They do -- but they're still much closer to the bug creature that attacked Major Sheppard than to us.

and

BECKETT: My theory is that the Ancients unwittingly allowed humans to evolve on a planet with, uh, (he looks apologetically at John) insect species on it. At some point the insects fed on humans and somehow incorporated our DNA into theirs. The Wraith are an evolution of that combination.

The other expedition members believe that he was right.

McKAY (in 'Spoils'): ... I mean, you've gotta remember – they're descended from insects, right? ..

As I mentioned check out Epiphany. Her Wraith DNA provided her the ability to sense other entities that a NORMAL human could not.

It was never explained why her Wraith DNA enabled her to sense a manifestation of the 'Epiphany' community's fears. It would have been nice to know seeing as the Beast wasn't a Wraith or even a real life form.

Look again at Instinct...she could sense something decidedly different about Ellia versus the other Wraith running around.

It was never explained how she was able to sense something different about Ellia. In 'The Gift' she tells Heightmeyer that sensing Wraith " ..feels like a deep cold that comes from within. I first felt it when I was a girl. I could not breathe, and I did not know why, and then we heard the Darts." I don't think she ever described what she 'felt' from Ellia, the 'Ephiphany' Beast or even Todd during his stay in the city. Does the 'deep cold' feeling only apply to Wraith who are in the 'hunting mode' or what? For all we know, the deep cold feeling could be something that the scriptwriters 'conveniently forgot about' because it suited their plot purposes to do so. This doesn't mean that she didn't sense these other things, of course, just that the scriptwriters neglected to give us further details.

Go back to Rising II and The Gift, they established that Teyla's physiology is decidedly different and far superior than the NORMAL human. Yes, she has all things human but she is NOT and extremely far from being a NORMAL human.

I wasn't trying to prove that she's 'normal'. I was looking at what the Stargate characters said in 'The Gift' and trying to figure out what they might think about her.

SHEPPARD: You're saying Teyla's part-Wraith?!

BECKETT: A very small part.

WEIR (to John): Which makes her about as different from us as you, because of the Ancient gene you possess.

Weir seems to be saying that Teyla is no further removed from ordinary humans than Sheppard with his Ancient gene is. Maybe they were underestimating how far removed from ordinary humans she actually is.

I'll assume Beckett never had a chance to do full indepth study of Teyla as she is, and I'm sure the equipment is definitely not up to par to do it and the samples were most definitely not enough.

His equipment was good enough to identify the Ancient gene with and I'm guessing he took it with him when he went to Atlantis. From 'Hide And Seek' -

BECKETT: We believe A.T.A. -- or Ancient Technology Activation -- is caused by a single gene that's always on, instructing various cells in the body to produce a series of proteins and enzymes that interact with the skin, the nervous system and the brain. (He gestures dramatically with the syringe. McKay watches it nervously.) In this case we're using a mouse retrovirus to deliver the missing gene to your cells.

Beckett would have had more Wraith samples to work with after 'The Seige' - there was Bob (a faced male), the masked guard who was still attached to Ford when they fished him out of the sea and probably a lot of other Wraith lying around as well. As for him not having a chance to do a full, in depth study of Teyla, he'd have had plenty of time if he'd wanted to do further comparisons between her genetic makeup and Wraith genetic makeup. 'The Gift' was the third from last story in Seaon One . As I said earlier, maybe he didn't bother so missed something.

You allowed yourself to believe that it's tiny when in fact the show goes further to make it far from small.

I wasn't talking about what I believe. I was saying that the other SGA characters might believe it because Beckett said -

BECKETT: A very small part.

As for how much Wraith DNA she has, we don't know. We've never had a story where Beckett or Keller reported the percentage of Wraith DNA in her genetic makeup. If the medical department is supposed to know more it's being kept a secret from us viewers.

Other than not feeding off of humans, Teyla has many Wraith like abilities.

She has Wraith telepathic abilities which enable her to tune into Wraith minds. She can also fly hive ships but it hasn't been explained whether this is something to do with her Wraith telepathic abilities or another Wraith gene which makes hive ships respond to Wraith. She's fast and strong in combat but was no match for Steve at the end of 'Suspicion'. Ronon appears to be stronger and better in combat than the average human but there's never been any suggestion that he's got Wraith DNA.

So I see you've said a lot, and I'll assume you just wanted to prove that she's 3 months along nearly 4.

The length of the pregnancy determines the size of the fetus and how much brain matter its head can hold. This is the first time that the medical department would have come across the fetus of an Athosian woman with Wraith DNA. You'd think they'd be taking a lot of professional interest in it. An ordinary human fetus wouldn't have a mind powerful enough to help control a Wraith Queen so you'd think that Teyla's baby would have caused a sensation. The expedition is supposed to be involved in scientific research as well as fighting 'bad guys' and Teyla's baby is definitely something of a scientific curiosity.

And that's the beauty and adds to the stupidity of the characters that have been established since S1. Kanan could very well be the father, but the parasite would never be normal because of the mother. And SoW, again verifies that the fetus cannot be normal even if the rest of the characters just put it down to a "Teyla thing".

That's what I've been saying. They don't seem to question why a 3 - 4 month old fetus with it's tiny little brain should have a mind strong enough to help it's mother who has a fully developed adult brain. Some of us viewers are going ???? at the news but, up to now, none of the SGA characters seem to find it odd. We haven't seen the rest of the season,though, so maybe they'll think something's odd about it in a future story. Until we have seen the rest of the story arc we don't know whether it's oddness really is due to Michael or just because it's a 'Teyla thing'. TPTB have decided something but we have no idea what it is yet.

They've proven they're idiots time and time again.

I definitely agree with you there.

You're just giving them far more credit than they rightly deserve.

I'm just giving Beckett the scientific credit for things which have been established in the series. He identified the Ancient gene which is very rare in the Earth human population and developed the Ancient gene therapy so more people could have Sheppard's ability to fly Puddle Jumpers etc. In 'The 'Gift' he'd partially mapped Wraith genetic makeup so one would assume that he'd finished the job later on. He then goes on to develop his retrovirus which is supposed to work as follows according to 'Instinct' -

BECKETT: We're working on a retrovirus that would alter Wraith D.N.A., essentially stripping out the iratus bug elements of the genetic code and leaving only the human aspects behind.

This indicates that he must have identified the Iratus bug elements because his second retrovirus targets them. It isn't perfect because it only works on males for a short time unless they're given further doses but it does suggest that he knew a lot more about Wraith genes in 'Michael' than he did in 'The Gift'. Maybe it's why the other characters think that Teyla is only "A very small part" Wraith because this is what he told them.

[DONNA BOOTH]

Im already seething about the Lack of Teyla now so im hoping we get see more than one Teyla Centric episode next season

[ciannwn]

Im already seething about the Lack of Teyla now so im hoping we get see more than one Teyla Centric episode next season

The lack of Teyla is probably due to Rachel Luttrell's real life pregnancy. Working on SGA full time would have been very tiring for her so they arranged for Teyla not to be in as many stories as usual.

[Jumper_One]

The lack of Teyla is probably due to Rachel Luttrell's real life pregnancy. Working on SGA full time would have been very tiring for her so they arranged for Teyla not to be in as many stories as usual.

true but also Teyla will have an important role in The Kindred

[Willow'sCat]

So how long do you *all* think this baby will remain on the show? Can we really have SGA with a baby/child as part of the cast? Has it ever worked in other scifi shows? In my experience it hasn't, the only time it probably comes close to working is when they keep the kid but you rarely see it or hear mention of it again which really makes it nothing more then a "plot device".

Lets just say I have many doubts.

[MattSilver 3k]

I think the baby will just be a little plot device that'll appear every now and then (Think: Teyla's dying offworld or something and she tells Sheppard to look after her baby or whatever). I don't think it'll be a super wraith gene baby - just a normal one with Teyla's wraithsensing genes.

[Amalthea]

So how long do you *all* think this baby will remain on the show? Can we really have SGA with a baby/child as part of the cast? Has it ever worked in other scifi shows? In my experience it hasn't, the only time it probably comes close to working is when they keep the kid but you rarely see it or hear mention of it again which really makes it nothing more then a "plot device".

Lets just say I have many doubts.

Maybe he'll be like "Baby Ricky" from I Love Lucy and will always be napping. lol

[atfan]

So how long do you *all* think this baby will remain on the show? Can we really have SGA with a baby/child as part of the cast? Has it ever worked in other scifi shows? In my experience it hasn't, the only time it probably comes close to working is when they keep the kid but you rarely see it or hear mention of it again which really makes it nothing more then a "plot device".

Lets just say I have many doubts.

I don't think it will Probably the father will end up taking it since Telya would be reluctant to leave Atlantis or else the baby won't be normal but part Wraith in which case well who knows?

[ciannwn]

or else the baby won't be normal but part Wraith in which case well who knows?

Teyla's part Wraith. The question is will the baby be 'normal' for a human woman with some Wraith DNA or will it have far more Wraith DNA than it could have inherited from it's mother?