A plea to the writers

[Raven56]

I have seen plenty of eps that have made me feel like that. Outcast, Doppleganger, Tabula Rasa for example.

We Likum Same Eps
With addition of Miller's Crossing, for me....

[Jumper_One]

To emphasise on the fact that its Sam, all they've done is have her sometimes go 'Back when I was on SG-1...'. Apart from that, all I've seen is her as Weir.

hm she did mention SG-1 in DG. what other times are you talking about?

You honestly don't see the similarities at all?

nope

[Mitchell82]

'Forced' how?

The Ark for example. He had no reason to really been in the ep.

To emphasise on the fact that its Sam, all they've done is have her sometimes go 'Back when I was on SG-1...'. Apart from that, all I've seen is her as Weir.

I see your point I just disagree. I just see Sam far better at the job.

You honestly don't see the similarities at all?

I see that some are similar but every ep has been unique. Just because some have a vague similarity does not a copy or rehash make.

All I got from Vengeance was 'I am Michael. FEAR ME, HUMANS! FEAR ME! FEAR MY BUGS!'

I saw alot more than that.

Outcast, and other episodes set on Earth, always seem to have a scene where two of the main characters, guided by a Swat Team, run around a warehouse chasing someone. Tabula Rasa reminded me of SG-1's Beneath the Surface (considering that the main plot device was that everyone had lost thier memories for some reason). I liked the central idea of Doppelganger, but what really winds me up about it is that it could have so easily have been written as an SG-1 episode.

I disagree.

[Jackie]

I'll actually agree with both sides on this one - you're very right on the characters growing and changing, but perhaps a basic starting point would have helped.

The really interesting thing is that I saw more action/story interest in SG-1 than I did character development/interaction, and I see more characterization in SG:A than I did in SG-1.

Hmmm, on the other hand, Doppelganger (what we fear), The Seer (future predetermined by character), Miller's Crossing (how far would you go?), Quarantine (facing helplessness) were all good what I refer to as 'what if' stories - they all made me think.

As do you .[B] I seldom agree with you, but you always make me think about just why, instead of knee-jerking a reaction. Luvly!

Funny...to me SG-1 was more emotional and less shoot em up and blow em up. maybe it's due to the special effects. I see the ships and beam in and out technology as a distraction from the story and a convenient plot ploy instead of part of the story.

Never said you had to agree with anyone! Thinking is a good thing.

Err...I think that its hard to get over one's entire planet being destroyed...which is what I meant by 'traumatised'.

Writing a script gives you room for whatever you want, whether its an action scene of a social inter-action, or perhaps a scene with one character on his own crying over the loss of his people, complete with flashbacks. Why did they have flashbacks only in 'Sateda' when realistically they should have been haunting him through out the series?

And what about Ford? And Weir for that matter? From what I've seen, the writers didn't know where to take thier characters and so instead of sitting down and really thinking hard on it, they stood up and said 'LETS MAKE 'EM BADDIES!'.

Its unacceptable to me that they don't 'examine the actions of thier characters instead of just hopping to the next fight scene' when, by now in season four, the characters should be well layered in thier depth. By this I mean that they're still introducing characters from the main team's past when this should have really been covered much, much earlier.


You may well be right. I think that it would have made for more interesting character-driven stories if they had basic backgrounds and personalities written down months in advance though before they started on the scripts, so they've had lots of time to go over it in thier minds and make it different from things they've already done in the series (and SG-1).

I underlined 'different' because its a key word here, and I really think that in order for me to be happy with Atlantis is for it to be different. Completely different from anything we've ever seen in a scifi show before.

My point with the script writing was unlike writing a novel...you are actually writing instructions...like a recipe. And with script writing--unless there is a reason to have the actor cry you leave the action blank for the director. With script writing the writer has to leave room for the director's impute and it is frowned upon to have the writer do the director's job.

I just wrote a script for a musical. (Need to find a musician now.) I need to NOT put in emotional cues unless there is a reason for it. The director does all that. I also place where the music goes and I can suggest what the song should be like but I can't write music. Script writing is far EASIER...IMO than writing a novel and I have done both. But with a novel you can take your time as a writer and really explore your characters with no restrictions.

When writing a TV show...the actual exploring of the character comes during production of a show.

Take Lt. Colonel Mitchell. We were given a back story that portrayed him as a hero but IMO that was a bit redundant. I would have had Mitchell brought in as Sam's temp replacement...for a medical leave, say she broke her leg or something...then the big hero who deserved his promotion. Then when sam came back they could have dealt with the...who is in charge issue.

Sam could have remained in command and then we could have had tension with Mitchell pondering if Sam was fit for command or vise versa. Just a thought.

What I would like to see the writer's do for season 5 is:

Come up with a solid over all story arc. You can have mini arcs under the over all arc.

Have one solid enemy and not a bunch of little ones.

Have a define a mission purpose for SGA to even be exist. Another words...make it real. Why would Earth still send people to another universe, to a ancient city and risk exposing Earth to an enemy with space travel?

define who the enemy is? What is their goal?

Bring about deeper character development and rely less on plot devices such as Asgard technology and Earth built ships to resolve the situation.

Make SGA the under dog once more. We seem to have too much technology, we seem to be smarter than Ancients and Rodney can solve anything.

Define if the expedition is military or civilian.

Actually employ the gate as you entrance and exist point to scenes.

Bring up questionable actions and repercussions in the character development. Example: MC and Sheppard's assisted suicide.

Resolve over due issues such as the fate of Ford and Wier.

Explore the city

Avoid wallpapering characters in favor of vamping McKay even more.

[Briangate78]

Michael is a perfect example of some good writing, imo. They had a character who they made into a human, lied to him, and then betrayed him again after he helped to save Sheppard's team. No one wanted to listen to Ronon, which that continues in "Vengence" when he snaps back at Sheppard. I loved that part, because he is right, and Sheppard knows it.

I also think it's a moral issue, is he a Wraith or is he Human? He is an outcast, and I think Michael has been one of the most dynamic enemies/characters we've seen. The scene in vengence where Michael tells Sheppard to shoot him because he doesn't care if he lives or not truly makes you wonder how hurt this character is. Outcasted from the Wraith and Atlantis, all because of what Beckett/Atlantis did to him. Wow I cannot WAIT, till the Kindred. Screw the replicators, the show is going to really dive in deep for the last 3 eps of the season.

[Raven56]

What I would like to see the writer's do for season 5 is:

Come up with a solid over all story arc. You can have mini arcs under the over all arc.

Have one solid enemy and not a bunch of little ones.

Have a define a mission purpose for SGA to even be exist. Another words...make it real. Why would Earth still send people to another universe, to a ancient city and risk exposing Earth to an enemy with space travel?

define who the enemy is? What is their goal?

Bring about deeper character development and rely less on plot devices such as Asgard technology and Earth built ships to resolve the situation.

Make SGA the under dog once more. We seem to have too much technology, we seem to be smarter than Ancients and Rodney can solve anything.

Define if the expedition is military or civilian.

Actually employ the gate as you entrance and exist point to scenes.

Bring up questionable actions and repercussions in the character development. Example: MC and Sheppard's assisted suicide.

Resolve over due issues such as the fate of Ford and Wier.

Explore the city

Avoid wallpapering characters in favor of vamping McKay even more.

That's interesting - most of what you've brought up would tend to make it way too predictable for me - I like never knowing whether they're walking through the 'gate, having a show on Atlantis, or frantically dashing back to Earth 'cause the defecation has hit the revolving blades back here.

[ToasterOnFire]

^ Jackie, those are all very good points and I'd like to see most to all of them too.

[Jackie]

Michael is a perfect example of some good writing, imo. They had a character who they made into a human, lied to him, and then betrayed him again after he helped to save Sheppard's team. No one wanted to listen to Ronon, which that continues in "Vengence" when he snaps back at Sheppard. I loved that part, because he is right, and Sheppard knows it.

I also think it's a moral issue, is he a Wraith or is he Human? He is an outcast, and I think Michael has been one of the most dynamic enemies/characters we've seen. The scene in vengence where Michael tells Sheppard to shoot him because he doesn't care if he lives or not truly makes you wonder how hurt this character is. Outcasted from the Wraith and Atlantis, all because of what Beckett/Atlantis did to him. Wow I cannot WAIT, till the Kindred. Screw the replicators, the show is going to really dive in deep for the last 3 eps of the season.

Micheal is a phenomenal story arc and I really wish they kept Beckett as part of it. (I know you will tell me to wait and see.)

Micheal is the perfect example of what the writers can do. No heavy dependency on technology, you don't have Rodney smarter than the Wraith. The Wraith...one of the few enemies I like...are in a situation where they are facing starvation, they hunt for food(us) and we fight back. Imagine cows taking up arms and shooting back at us!

They are a result of evolution and not some freak science experiment...so who are we to say...kill them all.

We actually committed a crime against them by trying to make them human like. Just a wonderful arc that should have continued in greater detail and depth.

(Note: i thought Micheal's mutated wraith were a little cheesy though.)

[Briangate78]

Micheal is a phenomenal story arc and I really wish they kept Beckett as part of it. (I know you will tell me to wait and see.)

Micheal is the perfect example of what the writers can do. No heavy dependency on technology, you don't have Rodney smarter than the Wraith. The Wraith...one of the few enemies I like...are in a situation where they are facing starvation, they hunt for food(us) and we fight back. Imagine cows taking up arms and shooting back at us!

They are a result of evolution and not some freak science experiment...so who are we to say...kill them all.

We actually committed a crime against them by trying to make them human like. Just a wonderful arc that should have continued in greater detail and depth.

(Note: i thought Micheal's mutated wraith were a little cheesy though.)

Yeah I enjoyed the Michael story arcs, saved Season 2 for me, imo. The monsters he had were a little cheesy, but I hope if they do return they are touched up a little better or made differently.

Beckett is one of the key characters for this story arc. This is why even Beckett has become a great character, he is not just a medical doctor, and it is the reason why if he does return next season ,there will be room for him along with Keller.

[ciannwn]

I also think it's a moral issue, is he a Wraith or is he Human? He is an outcast, and I think Michael has been one of the most dynamic enemies/characters we've seen. The scene in vengence where Michael tells Sheppard to shoot him because he doesn't care if he lives or not truly makes you wonder how hurt this character is. Outcasted from the Wraith and Atlantis, all because of what Beckett/Atlantis did to him.

There's also another aspect to Michael. In 'Misbegotten' he tells Teyla -

MICHAEL: And if I remember nothing of what or who I am -- if this consciousness is erased -- what is the difference between that and death?

Previously in 'No Man's Land' he tells the Queen -

MICHAEL: ... But I don't understand why I wasn't told. I told you of their plan because I believed it was a viable way ...

Maybe I'm wrong but I get the impression that he was perfectly happy for other Wraith to be turned into amnesiac humans even though he objected when it happened to him.

[Raven56]

There's also another aspect to Michael. In 'Misbegotten' he tells Teyla -

MICHAEL: And if I remember nothing of what or who I am -- if this consciousness is erased -- what is the difference between that and death?

Previously in 'No Man's Land' he tells the Queen -

MICHAEL: ... But I don't understand why I wasn't told. I told you of their plan because I believed it was a viable way ...

Maybe I'm wrong but I get the impression that he was perfectly happy for other Wraith to be turned into amnesiac humans even though he objected when it happened to him.

Yep. And that shows just how like humans the Wraith really are, doesn't it? Don't do as I do, do as I say...... :snicker:

[Jackie]

Yeah I enjoyed the Michael story arcs, saved Season 2 for me, imo. The monsters he had were a little cheesy, but I hope if they do return they are touched up a little better or made differently.

Beckett is one of the key characters for this story arc. This is why even Beckett has become a great character, he is not just a medical doctor, and it is the reason why if he does return next season ,there will be room for him along with Keller.

I knew you were gonna say that! Lol. Oh, you predictable puppy you.

There's also another aspect to Michael. In 'Misbegotten' he tells Teyla -

MICHAEL: And if I remember nothing of what or who I am -- if this consciousness is erased -- what is the difference between that and death?

Previously in 'No Man's Land' he tells the Queen -

MICHAEL: ... But I don't understand why I wasn't told. I told you of their plan because I believed it was a viable way ...

Maybe I'm wrong but I get the impression that he was perfectly happy for other Wraith to be turned into amnesiac humans even though he objected when it happened to him.

I think Micheal is supposed the border on insanity. Talk about an identity disorder!

Todd is also an interesting story arc. He's stable enough to know what is going on and yet still the enemy.

[Briangate78]

I knew you were gonna say that! Lol. Oh, you predictable puppy you.



I think Micheal is supposed the border on insanity. Talk about an identity disorder!

Todd is also an interesting story arc. He's stable enough to know what is going on and yet still the enemy.

The Wraith have gotten some nice development. We even got some interesting development on the replicators, but I still think the Wraith are more dynamic that ever. I don't think Atlantis realizes how human these Wraith are, and yet they feed on the thing they are mostly like. That is deep for ya.

Oh and yes Beckett rocks!

[Jackie]

The Wraith have gotten some nice development. We even got some interesting development on the replicators, but I still think the Wraith are more dynamic that ever. I don't think Atlantis realizes how human these Wraith are, and yet they feed on the thing they are mostly like. That is deep for ya.

Oh and yes Beckett rocks!

what makes the wraith so "human" is how we can reflect Earth's own problems in them. Starvation provokes images of rail thin children wondering around the dessert.

It's in our nature to solve problems and make thing better. the problem with solving the Wraith's food problem is it would require our own sacrifice.

Then we go from a human need to help others to defending ourselves from a predator that we are prey too.

Our options are feed the wraith or kill the wraith. beckett attempted to "solve" the problem and created Frankenstein in the process.

So, my solution is to reverse Beckett's virus to strip away any human from them. Then call in Bug Busters and well there you go.

[ciannwn]

Our options are feed the wraith or kill the wraith. beckett attempted to "solve" the problem and created Frankenstein in the process.

So, my solution is to reverse Beckett's virus to strip away any human from them. Then call in Bug Busters and well there you go.

TPTB could decide that the solution lies in a middle way - a genetic alteration which enables Wraith to live on ordinary food as adults while remaining Wraith in all other respects. As they're the ones who invented Wraith biology it would work because they say it does and they could make it sound scientific with a bit of medical technobabble. Some Wraith could choose to take this option because they see benefit to themselves (an over specialised diet makes them vulnerable and forces them to spend much of their lives hibernating.) Others could refuse so there would still be some 'bad guys' left for the expedition to blow up.