I hate to admit it, since I like Carter better than Weir, but...

[Xicer]

huh?

KDR = Kill/Death Ratio. lol in online FPS's (first person shooter games) you kdr is the ratio of how many times you kill someone over how many times you die. I'm gonna take a guess and say that he's making a Battlefield 2 reference given the "spamming med-packs/revives" comment. He's basically just saying Sam is best for the job because shes killed the most aliens.

[PG15]

No one can disagree with this fact. It's evident in all episodes she's been in as "leader".

Yeah, I'll disagree with that fact opinion, thank you very much. I loved Carter in The Seer, and liked a myriad of moments in the episodes that proceeded that.

[Agent_Dark]

KDR = Kill/Death Ratio. lol in online FPS's (first person shooter games) you kdr is the ratio of how many times you kill someone over how many times you die. I'm gonna take a guess and say that he's making a Battlefield 2 reference given the "spamming med-packs/revives" comment. He's basically just saying Sam is best for the job because shes killed the most aliens.

this man knows the drill.

[jckfan55]

i agree.. that weir-shepperd have a really good chemistry.. something that carter-shepperd still don't have.. because carter in atlantis isn't even carter.. just an image like someone mention.. we all see her as a strong military/scientist woman who loved to shoot at the enemy, blow up a sun, play with time, and many other crazy things.. but in atlantis.. all we see so far is you have the go..

Maybe they're being so careful not to force Sam on the Weir fans that they haven't let Sam be Sam as much as many of us would like to see. I'm hoping to see more of the kind of things you say in future episodes. The Seer gave us some glimpses

[Aussie_Fan]

You know, I've been thinking about this, and I think my whole problem is that everyone is being so freaking nice to each other. You know, people being nice is great in RL, but it's boring on TV. I liked Carter in the one episode where they had some tension introduced with Ronon. But since then everyone is on their best behavior. And I'm not talking about outside tension, like Woolsey. That doesn't count. Even Rodney is being uncommonly nice, and it just doesn't feel right.

Yes I miss Weir. Yes, I think she added something special to the group. But her not being there has nothing to do with my frustrations about Carter. They've always been two separate issues for me. I don't like the way Elizabeth's been treated. But my issues with Carter are a separate thing. I wouldn't have a problem with Carter if they would work harder on showing us an actual transition - if they would put in some tension, some confrontation. Show us some struggle with her taking over this new command. But instead, they've voted to skip all of that, and just have her just fill Elizabeth's place. They badly need to differentiate her from Elizabeth somehow. If she was actually doing something different, I don't think there would be so much issue with comparisons. But when she's doing the same things, saying the same things, even standing in the same position on the same balcony - good grief. They threw in a token confrontation with Ronon in Reunion (and BTW, as I've said before, I really liked Carter in Reunion), and then just skipped over all the rest.

One of the reasons the later seasons of SG-1 were more boring (IMO) than the earlier seasons is that they completely threw away the idea of any intrateam tension after Daniel returned. That's one reason I welcomed Vala so much - she shook things up, introduced some friction. Not as much as there could have been, but at least some.

I don't understand why the writers are so afraid to put other main characters in conflict with Carter. This happened on SG-1 too, and I didn't understand it. Are they that afraid that it's going to make her look bad? That doesn't speak well for confidence in the character. If they were bringing a character like Jack O'Neill over to run the place, you can bet they'd throw in a lot of tension and butting heads between him and Sheppard and him and Rodney. So why in the world not do the same with Carter? Why take the easy way out? The Carter/Shep bonding moments wouldn't bother me so much if they'd had to work to get there - if they'd earned them. But this instantanious harmony is not only unrealistic - it's boring. Annoyingly so.

As someone mentioned earlier, there was Teyla's dream where it was brought up that she was afraid Carter didn't trust her. Why not explore that? Why not have Carter have a few confrontations with Rodney or with Shep? And for heaven's sake, have the woman make a few mistakes along the way! This is her first command after all! Mistakes make a person more likable in my opinion, and they're certainly having Rodney make a ton of them this year. Why not spread the wealth a little?

There's a lot of things that they could do to make Carter's transition better. Instead, with Amanda being out so much in the first half, I'm afraid they've completely skipped the transitional phase (less the token confrontation with Ronon) and now will expect us to assume that everyone's completely adjusted. Well, no, I'm not adjusted. I want them to show us that.

You know, we talked and debated about this for months and months before the season actually aired. As I remember it, most people said they wanted a realistic integration - to show Carter having some struggles with the command, to not have everyone accept her all at once. Well, here we are, and what I'm seeing is what I feared. No, she's not taking over the show, but neither is her integration into the Atlantis crew being handled remotely believably. Instead, they're ignoring all the questions and all the tension points that they could be exploiting, in favor of showing Carter being perfectly accepted. It's S9 all over again, with them absolutely refusing to acknowledge the co-leadership issue and instead having Carter and Cam be bestest of friends.

I hope this isn't the end of it. I hope that going into the second half, they explore some more of these aspects. But my fear is that they will expect us to assume that this has all already happened (after all, it had already been three months in The Seer), and refuse to show it.

To quote Joe Flanigan, speaking of the relationship between Sheppard and Carter:



I agree completely - it's dull when people are just getting along. Here's hoping they succeeded, but so far it doesn't look promising.

All of the above is only my own opinions and perspectives on the subject in question.

I think you've hit the nail on the head for me. I've been trying to figure out why Atlantis has been bugging me lately and I think this is it.

The writers are afraid of doing anything with the characters. So this inturn, makes everyone get a long like one big happy family. Not that there's a problem with this BUT every family has it's arguements and certain people who don't really get a long with others.

Ronons reaction to Carter was really great! (Though to me it seemed a bit strange 'cause Weir and Ronon never really had much time together..) I think it would have been great if EVERYONE acted that way to begin. Not necessarily as in-your-face about it. Everyone grieves differently and it would have been nice to see some of it.

Maybe they're being so careful not to force Sam on the Weir fans that they haven't let Sam be Sam as much as many of us would like to see. I'm hoping to see more of the kind of things you say in future episodes. The Seer gave us some glimpses

I'm a huge, huge Weir fan and yes, obviously I'm upset she's gone.. but in saying that if they're going to replace Weir, I want them to REPLACE her. Not slowly interaduce the new character. It kinda just drags things out and personally, I want the show to be moving forwards. Not stuck trying to get everyone use to Carter. She's there so she might as well be there.

[Mitchell82]

Sam has great chemistry with the team and IMHO way better than Weir.

[jz9]

As others have said chemistry can be totally subjective and one fan can see loads of chemistry between characters while another sees none.

I think Sheppard has "chemistry" will all of the characters and I wouldn't say that one is hugely better than the other, just different. Some fans relate better to different pairings and to what these different pairings bring out in the characters. McKaySheppard brings out more of the mischevious side to Shep, whilst the Ronan/Sheppard brings out more of the competitive/soldier side, Sheppard/Teyla brings more of Sheps emotional side and Sheppard/Weir more of a protective side. They are all just different and each one brings out interesting sides to the characters, and some fans just naturally get drawn to one pairing more than another, and therefore feel this paring has the best chemistry.

Weir has had 3 years to get to know the team and bond with them so there will be a familiarity and closness that has grown over the course of time. I would never say that this was instantaneous. Sheppard/Weir were quite distrustful of one another in the first few eps and even in Rising Shep didn't seem willing to follow Weir's orders at all but over time they definitely came to respect each other eventhough they disagreed on issues with regard to Atlantis. Weir probably knew Rodney the longest and wasn't phased by his abrasive nature and I felt they had the best understanding of who they both really were. There was no light bantering that we saw more often between Shep/Weir but deeper emotional moments and this is why I think Rodney was hit the most by her death.
But people do take time to get to know one another and yes there can be an instant chemistry or a knowing that you like and respect this person but boundaries still have to be set and this takes time. Carter has only had a tiny amount of time to interact with the team so there is no way we can say that she can build up in a few weeks what Weir built up in 3 years. But even though she is still finding her feet in her new position, and with Sheppard and the team, I do feel that that instant respect is there already and Sheppard feels possibly more at ease with her because they both share a military background. His relationship with Carter again is just different but they do have that instant rapport IMO and they seem to fit very well into the kind of leadership that Atltantis needs at the present time.

In time I think Carter will build up a great relationship with all the team. It may be different to how Weir interacted with them but that doesn't mean it will be any less meaningful.

Well said.

[Ripple in Space]

Hmm...so Carter is apparently top at everything...that screams of mary-suism and bad writing

pity she ain't number 1 in the personality stakes...

I think this is the most biased comment I've ever read within this forum from someone who's not just a complete moron.

[Cautious Explorer]

I think this is the most biased comment I've ever read within this forum from someone who's not just a complete moron.

I was going to respond that I thought the poster who compared Carter to Superman and believed she was better at everything than anyone else in Atlantis might be a little biased too, but then I realized something.....it was you:

It's kind of like Jerry Seinfeld's joke about Superman and the Justice League. Back in Seinfeld's day, Superman wasn't only super-strong, but he was also super-smart and could time-travel at will, and had telekinetic powers. So why did he need the Justice League?

It's the same situation with Carter and the Expedition. In Sg-1 she wasn't the best at everything...
SG-1
- #1 Scientist, #2 Military Officer, #3 Warrior
- #1 Military Officer, #2 Warrior
- #1 Anthropologist/Archaeologist, #1 Ambassador
- #1 Warrior
- #1 Military Commander

Atlantis
- #1 Scientist (by McKay's own words), #1 Military Officer, #1 Military Commander (just ask HWS & the IOA), #1 Offworld Experience (been on far more worlds and more diverse tech levels), #1 Alien Kill-Count ("Exodus" + 10+ years of Combat)
- #2 Military Officer
- #2 Scientist (by his own admission)
- #2 Offworld Experience
- #2 Alien Kill-Count

[JSPuddlejumper]

It is too early to say yet. Carter has hardly appeared in any episodes.

Wait till the war with Replicators heat up before coming to a conclusion.

[Ripple in Space]

I was going to respond that I thought the poster who compared Carter to Superman and believed she was better at everything than anyone else in Atlantis might be a little biased too, but then I realized something.....it was you:

I compared Carter to a Jerry Seinfeld joke about Superman from the 1970s... I don't see how my post is biased, especially since I preferred Weir's character's chemistry over Carter's on Atlantis . And while my post didn't attack a single character, but laid out how it's been, I don't even see opinion playing a part in my post.

How do the IOA & Homeworld Security not consider Carter to be a more qualified military leader than Sheppard? They literally brought her in to lead the Expedition...

How does Rodney not think that he's smarter than Carter, but she's a better scientist? You might want to watch "Grace Under Pressure."

How has Carter not been on a larger technological diversity of worlds than Teyla? Before Teyla joined the Expedition the most advanced civilization she had contact with was the Genii. Carter's been on primitive worlds, and been to the Nox and Asgard worlds, among MANY other advanced societies.

Counting "Exodus" alone, how has Carter not killed more aliens than Ronon? Not to mention all of the others she's killed in 10 years.

[Blower'sGate]

Carter's a good boss but Atlantis' season 1 was the best season SGA's ever had. Who was in charge? Yup, Weir. Guess it would make sense to have Weir back...


.... not that I'm a fan

[Cautious Explorer]

I compared Carter to a Jerry Seinfeld joke about Superman from the 1970s... I don't see how my post is biased, especially since I preferred Weir's character's chemistry over Carter's on Atlantis . And while my post didn't attack a single character, but laid out how it's been, I don't even see opinion playing a part in my post.

How do the IOA & Homeworld Security not consider Carter to be a more qualified military leader than Sheppard? They literally brought her in to lead the Expedition...

How does Rodney not think that he's smarter than Carter, but she's a better scientist? You might want to watch "Grace Under Pressure."

How has Carter not been on a larger technological diversity of worlds than Teyla? Before Teyla joined the Expedition the most advanced civilization she had contact with was the Genii. Carter's been on primitive worlds, and been to the Nox and Asgard worlds, among MANY other advanced societies.

Counting "Exodus" alone, how has Carter not killed more aliens than Ronon? Not to mention all of the others she's killed in 10 years.

Do you understand what "bias" means? You said you're a fan of Carter. You proceeded to explain that Carter was like Superman in the Seinfeld joke -- so superior to the others that they weren't even necessary. You then went on to describe how she was better than each individual on Atlantis, in your opinion. You are lamenting the fact that she is not used more in the series. And now you are trying to present the same argument again, that you believe Carter to be superior to the others. How is your post not biased?

[Ripple in Space]

Do you understand what "bias" means? You said you're a fan of Carter. You proceeded to explain that Carter was like Superman in the Seinfeld joke -- so superior to the others that they weren't even necessary. You then went on to describe how she was better than each individual on Atlantis, in your opinion. You are lamenting the fact that she is not used more in the series. And now you are trying to present the same argument again, that you believe Carter to be superior to the others. How is your post not biased?

That list wasn't opinion . I wasn't lamenting that she wasn't used more, I don't think that she can be to the extent that Weir or Hammond were, not with the current writing staff anyway. In fact I preferred Weir's chemistry in the cast by far. I made this thread, and Weir's superior chemistry is the basis of it. That list doesn't have room for opinion, they are facts that the characters have stated. Do you know what bias is?

Carter stated that she was promoted over John.

McKay stated that Carter reaps better scientific results than him because she's wiser (yet less intelligent).

Carter has been seen on the Nox & Asgard worlds, along with many others.

Carter was seen blowing up a star that crippled a Goa'uld fleet, killing at least many hundreds of, and more likely a few thousand Jaffa and Goa'uld. That's all in addition to all of the Jaffa we've seen Carter kill over 10 years. Ronon's kill count is nowhere near that high, nor has he ever claimed it to be.

[Cautious Explorer]

That list wasn't opinion . I wasn't lamenting that she wasn't used more, I don't think that she can be to the extent that Weir or Hammond were, not with the current writing staff anyway. In fact I preferred Weir's chemistry in the cast by far. I made this thread, and Weir's superior chemistry is the basis of it. That list doesn't have room for opinion, they are facts that the characters have stated. Do you know what bias is?

Carter stated that she was promoted over John.

McKay stated that Carter reaps better scientific results than him because she's wiser (yet less intelligent).

Carter has been seen on the Nox & Asgard worlds, along with many others.

Carter was seen blowing up a star that crippled a Goa'uld fleet, killing at least many hundreds of, and more likely a few thousand Jaffa and Goa'uld. That's all in addition to all of the Jaffa we've seen Carter kill over 10 years. Ronon's kill count is nowhere near that high, nor has he ever claimed it to be.

Wow. I totally missed the point of your post. I thought you were praising Carter by listing her accomplishments and stating she's the best at everything. Instead you were meaning what? I still don't get your point. Were you being sarcastic?

I'm not going to debate with you about what was said or done on SG-1. I haven't watched and I just don't care.

But you're list is just your opinion. You're not merely listing what Carter has or hasn't done. You're giving your opinion on how that makes her better in certain areas than other characters. That's always up for debate.