I hate to admit it, since I like Carter better than Weir, but...

[Uber]

On that, we'll have to agree to disagree. Elizabeth had intuition as much as Sam does - it might not be military based - but I could easily see her making the same call. Especially since Sam wasn't using her military background to make her decision - if she were, she would have said to fire. She herself said she just went with a hunch.

But that's me - if you don't see it from the same perspective, that's fine.

Actually she admitted that she didn't know whether or not the Wraith would fire on them...which suggests strongly that she was relying on her gut instinct sharply honed from her experience to prod her to order Shep not to fire. And Shep had to listen to her...he couldn't ignore her and do what he wanted like I think he would have to Weir, had she commented, which I'm not sure she would have.

LOL You're right...lots o' suppositions there too. No worries...I can do the agree to disagree with the best of 'em.

[Jumper_One]

On that, we'll have to agree to disagree. Elizabeth had intuition as much as Sam does - it might not be military based - but I could easily see her making the same call.

true. however Carter was able to order Shep not to fire, Weir couldn't have done that

Especially since Sam wasn't using her military background to make her decision -

she wasn't? how so?

if she were, she would have said to fire.

really? how do you know?

She herself said she just went with a hunch.

correct, a hunch that was extremely influenced by her military and non-military experience

But that's me - if you don't see it from the same perspective, that's fine.

ok

[Cautious Explorer]

I see her completely the opposite and to me she definitely has command presence and where do you get that she is not intelligent!.

Where do I get that she isn't intelligent? Observation. I know she's supposed to be intelligent. TPTB have said she's intelligent. But personally, I haven't seen much sign of it. That's not to say she isn't an intelligent scientist. But as a leader, I'm not seeing much skill so far.

She is everything I wanted the leader of Atlantis to be. She is professional and has a great dynamic with Sheppard. They had an immediate respect for each other and they both have military experience, so already they understand each other more than Sheppard and Weir ever seemed to.

I'm at a loss as to where you're seeing this "great dynamic" between Sheppard and Carter. She's his boss and outranks him. I see him being polite. And I don't know why you assume Sheppard immediately respects her because she has military experience. That never stopped him from having issues with Caldwell or Everett. I think it's just because she's a fairly innocuous presence. She's barely there enough for Sheppard to take issue with anything.

That was my biggest problem with Weir, she never IMO ever showed any command presence and always seemed uncertain of herself to the point of worrying like a mother hen. So far I havn't seen any uncertaintly from Carter and she has impressed me in the role in the short time she has been in it more than Weir did in three seasons. Sam and John work well together, while Sheppard and Weir seemed to be pulling in different directions.

LOL You're issues with Weir are exactly what I hate about Carter. Except for the mother hen attitude. Carter just seems too removed from everyone to appear that way. I just wish Carter could exhibit some warmth or charisma - something.

I won't go into what I think of Keller here but again I never felt Carter to be insecure. She has only been in the role a few weeks and has had huge decisions to make, but she came across confident and in control and I don't think Weir would have reacted the way Carter did in the Seer. She used her gut instinct and military expertise to make a call and it was the right one.

Carter was indecisive and nervous in the Seer. She let Woolsey upset her to the point of yelling at him to "shut up". She confessed to Woolsey that she had no reason for making the call she did. I think it's a little optimistic to say her military experience played any part at all. Actually, I think she lucked out. Rather than her indecision leading to catastrophe, it ended up giving the Wraith time to fire on each other.

Would Weir have done the same, I don't think so. It's not enough just to have an easy going relationship with your co-leader, its about making the right and informed decisions and so far Carter has done a good job and I think she will get better and better.

I think it's more about having an easy-going relationship with your second in command, while being indecisive and underconfident. I have yet to see her make a great command decision. I hope she gets better and better. IMO she couldn't get much worse.

As to Carter not being in a commanding role before, you could say exactly the same of Weir. Not only was she not in a leadership role but she had no military experience, and her negotiating skills were never used much at all, so she was just as untrained if you like as Carter. But Carter has the experience to deal with the life and death situations which can ultimately only benefit Atlantis.

Weir was selected for an exploratory mission that turned out differently than anyone had anticipated. Carter was deliberately selected for the known situation in Pegasus. Presumably her leadership abilities were taken into consideration. Majorsal, whose post I originally responded to, stated that Carter has had plenty of command experience. So far, I'm not seeing this expertise being put to use. I wouldn't expect someone experienced at leading to appear so hesitant, doubtful and indecisive as Carter has shown to be. Would anyone accept that behaviour in a male commander?

On this I disagree. I think Elizabeth would have done exactly the same thing, judging from how she's handled matters over the last three seasons.



Yes they work well together, too well. I'm sorry, but I find that incredibly boring, and this more subdued version of Shep seems OOC. I thought Sheppard and Weir's occasional disagreements made the show more interesting, and having to have two people with different backgrounds find a way to work together made for a more interesting setup.

I agree. Carter isn't doing anything that Weir couldn't do. And she's doing it with a lot less warmth and character.

I don't understand why we aren't seeing any conflict between Sheppard and Carter. I don't enjoy this new version of Sheppard who's so happy to take orders. He's far too docile. Carter desperately needs to have conflict with someone. She's far too boring the way she's being portrayed right now.

[justhere1971]

Where do I get that she isn't intelligent? Observation. I know she's supposed to be intelligent. TPTB have said she's intelligent. But personally, I haven't seen much sign of it. That's not to say she isn't an intelligent scientist. But as a leader, I'm not seeing much skill so far.

I'm at a loss as to where you're seeing this "great dynamic" between Sheppard and Carter. She's his boss and outranks him. I see him being polite. And I don't know why you assume Sheppard immediately respects her because she has military experience. That never stopped him from having issues with Caldwell or Everett. I think it's just because she's a fairly innocuous presence. She's barely there enough for Sheppard to take issue with anything.


LOL You're issues with Weir are exactly what I hate about Carter. Except for the mother hen attitude. Carter just seems too removed from everyone to appear that way. I just wish Carter could exhibit some warmth or charisma - something.



Carter was indecisive and nervous in the Seer. She let Woolsey upset her to the point of yelling at him to "shut up". She confessed to Woolsey that she had no reason for making the call she did. I think it's a little optimistic to say her military experience played any part at all. Actually, I think she lucked out. Rather than her indecision leading to catastrophe, it ended up giving the Wraith time to fire on each other.



I think it's more about having an easy-going relationship with your second in command, while being indecisive and underconfident. I have yet to see her make a great command decision. I hope she gets better and better. IMO she couldn't get much worse.



Weir was selected for an exploratory mission that turned out differently than anyone had anticipated. Carter was deliberately selected for the known situation in Pegasus. Presumably her leadership abilities were taken into consideration. Majorsal, whose post I originally responded to, stated that Carter has had plenty of command experience. So far, I'm not seeing this expertise being put to use. I wouldn't expect someone experienced at leading to appear so hesitant, doubtful and indecisive as Carter has shown to be. Would anyone accept that behaviour in a male commander?



I agree. Carter isn't doing anything that Weir couldn't do. And she's doing it with a lot less warmth and character.

I don't understand why we aren't seeing any conflict between Sheppard and Carter. I don't enjoy this new version of Sheppard who's so happy to take orders. He's far too docile. Carter desperately needs to have conflict with someone. She's far too boring the way she's being portrayed right now.

Maybe he's just stopped caring? ITA about Weir. She'd have handled it just the same way, only with better chemistry with the team. The lines are being written for her, yet it's Carter who's delivering them.

[Chrysalis]

Maybe he's just stopped caring? ITA about Weir. She'd have handled it just the same way, only with better chemistry with the team. The lines are being written for her, yet it's Carter who's delivering them.

Yeah, funny that. I've seen that a lot this season. It makes me wonder whether the issue was more them wanting to work with Amanda, as opposed to working with Carter.

[RealmOfX]

<snip>
I don't understand why we aren't seeing any conflict between Sheppard and Carter. I don't enjoy this new version of Sheppard who's so happy to take orders. He's far too docile. Carter desperately needs to have conflict with someone. She's far too boring the way she's being portrayed right now.

I've heard this opinion expressed before but what logical reason is there for conflict between Shep & Carter at this point in time?? The way I see it there is none.

A new commander is nothing new for career military so what logical reason would you have for conflict between the two at this stage? Do you want Shep to be totally unprofessional and have problems just because Carter isn't Weir??





I've gotta laugh at all the "she's too boring" and "she's just delivering Weir's lines" garbage from certain quarters or "she's hardly there". Seems to me some people got exactly what they asked for and are now complaining because they got it

[justhere1971]

I've heard this opinion expressed before but what logical reason is there for conflict between Shep & Carter at this point in time?? The way I see it there is none.

A new commander is nothing new for career military so what logical reason would you have for conflict between the two at this stage? Do you want Shep to be totally unprofessional and have problems just because Carter isn't Weir??

I've gotta laugh at all the "she's too boring" and "she's just delivering Weir's lines" garbage from certain quarters or "she's hardly there". Seems to me some people got exactly what they asked for and are now complaining because they got it

No one is asking for conflict for conflict's sake. It's logical to think, once a new boss is in place, there will be some adjustment period, regardless of the situation. Where have we seen that really? Ten episodes in, and we've seen them sitting down eating meal.
Have you watched the past three seasons of SGA? Or is this your first year? If it is, I understand your misconception at expecting Shep to just roll over and have Carter pet his belly. He excels in mild conflict. That's his MO. In my mind that's him feeling his leader out. Learning how they work, so he can better work with them.

As for certain quarters getting exactly what they asked for, I am confused. Are you trying to say the people who like Carter got a paler version of Carter, yet they should be happy because well it's her? Or is it that the Weir fan's should just shut up and enjoy the lines, in the blond model?

[Cautious Explorer]

I've heard this opinion expressed before but what logical reason is there for conflict between Shep & Carter at this point in time?? The way I see it there is none.

A new commander is nothing new for career military so what logical reason would you have for conflict between the two at this stage? Do you want Shep to be totally unprofessional and have problems just because Carter isn't Weir??

Conflict is not the same thing as pouting because there's a new commander. I don't want to see that. As I said, Sheppard isn't Sheppard around Carter. He's the dutiful 2nd in command who happily follows Carter's orders. They're completely different types of people who ought to have different pov's now and then. It's not just Sheppard either. Carter hasn't had a difference of opinion with anyone except Woolsey.

I've gotta laugh at all the "she's too boring" and "she's just delivering Weir's lines" garbage from certain quarters or "she's hardly there". Seems to me some people got exactly what they asked for and are now complaining because they got it

I wasn't a huge Weir fan before Carter arrived. I'm disappointed that an interesting new character wasn't introduced to fill the leadership role. While it is more pleasant when Carter isn't featured IMO, there still needs to be someone filling the leader's role. There's a big hole where a leader out to be.

People asked for Carter to come and do nothing? I asked for Carter not to come at all. If she has to be there, she should at least be somewhat interesting. And interesting, doesn't mean hand her a gun and send her on missions. I'm not asking for that either. Let her be a decent commander with minimal screen time. A little bit here and there each episode would make more sense for the story than what they're doing now.

[justhere1971]

Conflict is not the same thing as pouting because there's a new commander. I don't want to see that. As I said, Sheppard isn't Sheppard around Carter. He's the dutiful 2nd in command who happily follows Carter's orders. They're completely different types of people who ought to have different pov's now and then. It's not just Sheppard either. Carter hasn't had a difference of opinion with anyone except Woolsey.

I wasn't a huge Weir fan before Carter arrived. I'm disappointed that an interesting new character wasn't introduced to fill the leadership role. While it is more pleasant when Carter isn't featured IMO, there still needs to be someone filling the leader's role. There's a big hole where a leader out to be.

People asked for Carter to come and do nothing? I asked for Carter not to come at all. If she has to be there, she should at least be somewhat interesting. And interesting, doesn't mean hand her a gun and send her on missions. I'm not asking for that either. Let her be a decent commander with minimal screen time. A little bit here and there each episode would make more sense for the story than what they're doing now.

Oh you mean actually show the fact they are communicating and building up a working relationship, as opposed to "oh wow! we're best buds, where should we go get a drink now?" Nahhhhhh, who needs that?

[Jumper_One]

Let her be a decent commander with minimal screen time.

um you want Carter to be a good commander with minimal screen time? how much have we seen of her so far?

A little bit here and there each episode would make more sense for the story than what they're doing now.

haha you're kidding right? people are already screaming how much we're seeing of her, can you imagine if she'd been in every ep so far (which btw wouldn't have made sense)

Oh you mean actually show the fact they are communicating and building up a working relationship, as opposed to "oh wow! we're best buds, where should we go get a drink now?" Nahhhhhh, who needs that?

come on if we'd seen Carter, Shep and everybody else chat and have fun you'd be complaining that there wasn't enough action or enough focus on the actual team or whatever

[Cautious Explorer]

Oh you mean actually show the fact they are communicating and building up a working relationship, as opposed to "oh wow! we're best buds, where should we go get a drink now?" Nahhhhhh, who needs that?

I think that would be too much effort. Besides, they already did that in Reunion: introduction, conflict, resolution and bonding all in one easy episode.

[justhere1971]

um you want Carter to be a good commander with minimal screen time? how much have we seen of her so far?

haha you're kidding right? people are already screaming how much we're seeing of her, can you imagine if she'd been in every ep so far (which btw wouldn't have made sense)

come on if we'd seen Carter, Shep and everybody else chat and have fun you'd be complaining that there wasn't enough action or enough focus on the actual team or whatever

I don't know which thread you've been visiting, but I have yet to hear some one screaming about too much screen time for Carter. I am not a fan of her on SGA - let me just be clear on that. I do not know if the second half of S4 will change that (I am hearing it will), but as of right now - no.

You do not need a backyard bbq or in their case an Atantis canoe ride w/ marshmellow roasting to show that they are building a working relationship. Communication alone would be one way. At least that's the way it works in the part of the world where I live in.

[justhere1971]

I think that would be too much effort. Besides, they already did that in Reunion: introduction, conflict, resolution and bonding all in one easy episode.

A very nice & tidy package indeed.

[Jumper_One]

No, I wouldn't. I thought Carter's introduction was horrible. Her character was a complete mish-mash. I'm complaining because they did do it that way. Should they have plopped her in the city with no introduction at all? Why not? It couldn't have been any worse that what they did to her character in Reunion. IMO of course.

well you know TBTB can't please every single fan. but it's pretty strange when people don't wanna see Carter and after the mid season finale a lot of people (especially the antis - no I did not call you an anti!) are complaining how little we've seen of her. if you don't like her introduction that's fine, it's your opinion. however there are others who have a different opinion now matter what TBTB do

[Jumper_One]

I don't know which thread you've been visiting, but I have yet to hear some one screaming about too much screen time for Carter. I am not a fan of her on SGA - let me just be clear on that. I do not know if the second half of S4 will change that (I am hearing it will), but as of right now - no.

well read some anti threads and you'll see how they see Carter so far. yes the second half will change that

You do not need a backyard bbq or in their case an Atantis canoe ride w/ marshmellow roasting to show that they are building a working relationship. Communication alone would be one way. At least that's the way it works in the part of the world where I live in.

ok then I'm sry but you gotta understand that there are a lot of people who complain either way. we see a lot of action, those guys and gals say we haven't seen much characters. if we see a lot of character development they will scream again that it's too much