Originally posted by The_Carpenter
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Originally posted by The_Carpenter View PostProbably just to shut Carter and O'Neill up
Either that or she pulled a Kirk and commandeered the shipOriginally posted by Myles View PostAgreed. They gave her a half done ship that took a month to complete working like 24/7. The IOA probably thought it woud take her 6 months to finish it(like it would with them) and by then they would have her out of there.
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As for giving Sam the ship, it seemed they didn't lose all hope of defending the Humans of the galaxy until after she died. Atlantis was still giving out medical supplies and trying to help as best they could. However, once the Phoenix was lost they completely pulled back. Maybe they thought Sam had a chance and although they weren't willing to risk the Daedalus and Apollo they might've been willing to reconsider as time went on. As others have mentioned, Sam has friends in high places so her voice probably kept them going as much they did. Anyway, one thing that isn't really clear is if they gave her the Phoenix to complete by themselves or if Mckay, Zelenka, and herself were helping them if it could get done faster. Some people seem to go for the former, but the latter seems more likely to me.Last edited by Xaeden; 09 March 2008, 12:08 PM.
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Originally posted by VSS View PostNo, McKay said the IOA and the military would not send them any extra reinforcements to defend humans in another galaxy. Not that they couldn't- they wouldn't. Then they finally started pulling people out far too late.
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Originally posted by VSS View PostFrom siggy:
What do you want?
To live.
Can't help you out there. That's between you and your God. Oh, wait a minute. You are your God. That's a problem.
In Loving Memory of Wraithlord.
I wish I got to know you better.
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Originally posted by reddevil18 View PostWhat does that have to do with what I said? They effectively ended their incursions into the galaxy, but they stated their intention of staying on Atlantis, believing that Michael wouldn't attack if unprovoked. The fact that the city is still there after all that time seems to prove that. For all we know, the Tau'ri might have remained in the galaxy for a few more decades, only limited to Atlantis. And they wouldn't send resources because they couldn't. You really have to look at it objectively. They really couldn't protect the galaxy anymore, but Atlantis, coupled with a few of our ships in orbit, would still be an almost unbreakable stronghold, that is still valuable to Earth. So, they probably stayed until Atlantis just wasn't useful anymore, regardless of the whole galaxy going to hell around it. That was the whole point of the expedition - Atlantis. They didn't give them resources to help the humans of their galaxy because they weren't their people and it was, indeed, a losing battle. However, Atlantis was not. The city was a defendable base, capable of withstanding direct attacks. Attacks that wouldn't come unprovoked.
Gosh, it reminds me of the US's early days in Iraq.
Originally posted by GoSpikey View PostApophis in Serpent's Song, right? We had that ep on telly, today.
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Originally posted by VSS View PostSure, I agree with all that, but why let "National Treasure" Carter and the Phoenix go up in flames? She wasn't defending Atlantis. They shouldn't have given her anything at all for the purpose of defending the other humans in the galaxy- OR they should have given her enough to have a chance to win. McKay didn't say there was some big threat in the Milky Way that was taking up all the other resources. They gave her just enough to fight but not win. That's dumb.
Gosh, it reminds me of the US's early days in Iraq.
So, it was sort of "Here, your boyfriend pulled enough strings to get you this ship. Do your best to hinder Michael's efforts, because we really CANNOT give you anything else". You really have to look at it objectively. Atlantis is the priority. They need one ship to guard the city, one for resupply and one in the Milky Way. They really gave her everything they could. You might think that they could have just sent 2-3-4 ships all at once, similar to what they did with the Asurans. But they just couldn't risk it. What if they lost all of them at once?
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Originally posted by reddevil18 View PostWell, it was made clear that they didn't want to give her ANYTHING. But the girl's got connections. However, I doubt Jack or Hammond or anyone else could get the IOA and the USAF to fully back her with all of their might. They just gave her enough to shut her up, but hoping at the same time the she WILL make a difference. Still, they gave her an unfinished ship, showing that their priority was Atlantis. They wouldn't let the Apollo and Daedalus get used for anything else. If one of them was destroyed, it would have been bad, because the Phoenix wouldn't be completed.
So, it was sort of "Here, your boyfriend pulled enough strings to get you this ship. Do your best to hinder Michael's efforts, because we really CANNOT give you anything else". You really have to look at it objectively. Atlantis is the priority. They need one ship to guard the city, one for resupply and one in the Milky Way. They really gave her everything they could. You might think that they could have just sent 2-3-4 ships all at once, similar to what they did with the Asurans. But they just couldn't risk it. What if they lost all of them at once?
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Originally posted by VSS View PostIf Atlantis was the priority, then that's what she should have been defending. That's my point. Everything else was just a suicide mission, authorized by the Pentagon. If they didn't care about the rest of the galaxy, why waste the best and brightest and one of only four ships on it? Makes no sense. Play to win or don't play.
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Originally posted by VSS View PostIf Atlantis was the priority, then that's what she should have been defending. That's my point. Everything else was just a suicide mission, authorized by the Pentagon. If they didn't care about the rest of the galaxy, why waste the best and brightest and one of only four ships on it? Makes no sense. Play to win or don't play.
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Originally posted by reddevil18 View PostWhat's so hard to understand? Atlantis was the IOA's priority. But Sam wanted to help the rest of the galaxy, so she most likely went crying to Jack and Hammond. They were able to convince TPTB to give her a ship, in order to shut her up. They probably felt that she wouldn't win, but that she'd manage to destroy a few ships, without getting herself blown up(obviously, that didn't work out as planned). A "keep her busy" approach. Seriously, you see this in real life all the time. I actually like that they did this. The IOA doesn't want to risk anything. Sam pulls some strings, but not enough to get a full scale war started. The end.
Originally posted by Xaeden View PostBecause they didn't entirely stop caring until after the Phoenix was destroyed. As reddevil18 mentioned, they needed a ship to defend Atlantis, they needed one to resupply it, and they needed something in the Milky Way to aid Sg missions and defend Earth should a threat arrise at a moment's notice. They weren't willing or completely able to commit all of their limited resources to fighting an offensive war, but they seemed to think there was still hope for the people of the Pegasus galaxy (or more accurately, they were convinced to go along with that idea). That's why, in addition to the Phoenix, they were still sending people through the gate to help the people out there. That all stopped with the loss of the Phoenix. Giving her the ship wasn't a hopeless situation. She had a chance, just like they had a chance when they sent people through the gate to combat a galaxy full of Goa'uld and Wraith. But they weren't willing to risk everything to back her up as if they lost everything Atlantis would be at risk. You don't fight a war by being all in, you keep things in reserve not just to counter, but to defend your current holdings. After the Phoenix was destroyed, which they obviously didn't want to happen, they had to reaccess the situation and since they never felt they had the resources to do anything to begin with, and any hope of fighting a gorilla war failed, they tried to remove themselves from any conflict so they could continue to utilize Atlantis.
Re: your second bold, if that's true, (which I agree it was) why send any resources in the first place? Back to square one.
EDIT: P.S. I'm done discussing now. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.Last edited by VSS; 09 March 2008, 02:38 PM.
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Originally posted by VSS View PostRe: Your first bold: McKay said the IOA and the military didn't want to waste time on the humans of the Pegasus galaxy.
Re: your second bold, if that's true, (which I agree it was) why send any resources in the first place? Back to square one.
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Originally posted by VSS View PostThat part in bold is news to me. McKay clearly portrayed her battle as a lost cause, a noble gesture. The entire ep revolved around that concept, as a matter of fact.
Re: your second bold, if that's true, (which I agree it was) why send any resources in the first place? Back to square one.
EDIT: P.S. I'm done discussing now. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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