BOO To Clones

[Black Panther]

Hate to be a stick in the mud, but there is no REAL carson. Maybe thats too fourth wall but there it is. Both are characters portrayed by MG and theyre identical roles with only slightly different backstories.

Now you are just getting too technical. You know what I meant.

How would it be any different (other than the degenerative disease) if this was the real Carson and the clone died? They would still be missing all the time between "Misbegotten" and "Kindred". All of you who are complaining about this are complete idiots. Wishing it was the other way around would only change the fact that the Carson they found would not currently be in a stasis cell. That is the only thing that would change.

First, there is no reason to insult people just because they have a different view point from your own.

Now to answer yours and others question about what is different. I can think of one glaring difference. He isn't Carson. Carson is dead. Now that we have his clone doesn't make him any less dead. This Carson can't live for him. Carson doesn't some how gain a second life through Clone Carson. Our Carson no longer experiences life. Clone Carson is little more than an illusion. His memories, except for the ones he has since he was made, are false. This is no different then when Cameron was implanted with Dr. Marell's memories and made to believe he killed Reya in Collateral Damage. Just because he remembered killing her didn't make him the murder. The same with Clone Carson. Just because he has Carson's memories and was made to believe he is Carson doesn't make him Carson. Like I said before just because he looks, acts, and sounds like Carson doesn't make him Carson. No matter how much we wish him to be. Sorry, but I am not going to delude myself into believing he is something he isn't. I prefer facts not sentiment.

[MechaThor]

I just remembered we (as in the sci-fi community) have seen something rather similar to this before in Farscape! Inwhich Bens character spent also an entire Series playing two John Clones on in two diffrent locations!

Man that was a dam good Farscape storyline, Shame we only got a hint of the twi lives with this Beckett Clone arc.

[jenks]

Now to answer yours and others question about what is different. I can think of one glaring difference. He isn't Carson. Carson is dead. Now that we have his clone doesn't make him any less dead. This Carson can't live for him. Carson doesn't some how gain a second life through Clone Carson. Our Carson no longer experiences life. Clone Carson is little more than an illusion. His memories, except for the ones he has since he was made, are false. This is no different then when Cameron was implanted with Dr. Marell's memories and made to believe he killed Reya in Collateral Damage. Just because he remembered killing her didn't make him the murder. The same with Clone Carson. Just because he has Carson's memories and was made to believe he is Carson doesn't make him Carson. Like I said before just because he looks, acts, and sounds like Carson doesn't make him Carson. No matter how much we wish him to be. Sorry, but I am not going to delude myself into believing he is something he isn't. I prefer facts not sentiment.

Actually no, sentiment is exactly what you're going for. From our point of view, he is exactly the same as Carson, the only way he isn't is if you get sentimental about the old one as if he were real, he's not. Carson is a fictional character, if looking, acting and sounding like Carson doesn't make him Carson then nothing does.

[Seftrex]

To quote Rodney:

Spoiler:

As far as I'm concerned, one of the best friends I have ever had has come back from the dead.

The way Mckay sees Beckett, is the way we should all look at it and not just see him as a fake.

Could you truely say that you would look at him differently?

At the end of the day, to quote Rodney again:

Spoiler:

He is Carson

Though, I can still see anti-clone peoples view on it.

[The.Road.Not.Taken]

To quote Rodney:

Spoiler:

As far as I'm concerned, one of the best friends I have ever had has come back from the dead.

The way Mckay sees Beckett, is the way we should all look at it and not just see him as a fake.

Could you truely say that you would look at him differently?

At the end of the day, to quote Rodney again:

Spoiler:

He is Carson

Though, I can still see anti-clone peoples view on it.

thank you aslong as the charatcher see him as carson why are you all disapointed he is a clone its carson anit it be happy with what your given or would you rather have no carson at all

[Black Panther]

Actually no, sentiment is exactly what you're going for. From our point of view, he is exactly the same as Carson, the only way he isn't is if you get sentimental about the old one as if he were real, he's not. Carson is a fictional character, if looking, acting and sounding like Carson doesn't make him Carson then nothing does.

Actually he is not the same. As been brought out before. This Carson has been engineered by Michael and been with him all this time. When our Carson hasn't. That alone makes him different.

I'm not sure I am being the sentimental one. Are people really that desperate to have Carson back that they are willing to accept a replica. (Hmmm, perhaps we are all being sentimental just in two different ways.)

Let me state that I personally have no problem with Clone Carson. I am just against the mentality that he is some how truly Carson and can replace him. I know this is a show and that Carson and Clone Carson truly don't exist. The fact that it is the same actor makes this character not all that different from the original, but that doesn't change the fact this isn't the original character.

Again I have nothing against Clone Carson. I just don't agree with him being the true Carson.

[ShadowMaat]

Mmmm.... Just because Rodney says, "As far as I'm concerned, one of the best friends I have ever had has come back from the dead" doesn't make it true. Carson was his best friend. Of course he's going to grasp an any chance of getting him back! It's a version of Carson, yes, but it isn't the Carson they lost in Sunday. The clone might make a good substitute, but IMO he can never be the real thing.

If Carson 2 had been brought over from an alternate universe, one where Michael really had abducted him and had somehow escaped into "our" reality to be rescued by "our" team, would that make him "our" Carson? No. He'd be an AU Carson. But it's just as likely that McKay would have said the same thing about getting his friend back from the dead.

[Nitegate]

I wonder what's gonna happen to Carson once he gets cured. I mean he remembers having a life and close family back home on Earth, however since he's a clone so when he leaves Atlantis what will happen to him? I mean it's not like he'll be allowed to go home to the people he thinks of as his family because he's not technically him. I feel sorry for him because of this. He remembers a whole life that I doubt that the military and the IOA will allow him to become involved in.

why wouldn't they let him go home to his family, look at cloned mini jack o'neill in season 7, they let him live on earth.

[BubblingOverWithIdeas]

The point is that this is not Carson, this is a genetically engineered identical twin brother of Carson with Carson's memories implanted in his mind. He's not a "fake" or a "cheap copy", but he is a different human individual from the Carson Beckett that the team knew. It's better than no appearances, of course, and it provides a reason for him to be recurring rather than regular (though going back to his family or dealing with personal issues might also qualify as such a reason).

I sympathize with him as much as I would with Carson, I just think they should address at some point in Season Five that this is another man. Having the same memories does not make him the same consciousness, and having the same DNA certainly doesn't (witness real-life identical siblings, or Boomer and Athena on BSG).

[TDgamer]

Okay, so maybe I went a little too far. My apologies.

But my point stands. If this Carson was the real one, and it was the clone that died in "Sunday" it would still be the same situation. It would have been clone Carson that was the first to admire Lucius in "Irresistable". It would have been the clone Carson that fired the shots that saved Ronon in "Sateda". It would have been the clone Carson that struggled to save Marines that he believed were still alive in "Phantoms". Most importantly, it would have been the clone Carson that we felt sorry for when nobody would go fishing with. The clone who had made everyone leave the infirmary so that he could operate on an explosive tumor. The clone, who made the ultimate sacrifice in order to save a scientist.

And it would have been the real Carson who would have none of these memories. The real Carson who had been living in captivity for the last two years. And most importantly, the real Carson who had been coerced into recreating a protein that is killing almost 30% of the population who is exposed to it!

Does it REALLY matter?

[erb]

Not sure if this was already mentioned (if so, I apologize), but what if the Carson in Sunday and the Carson from The Kindred were both clones and the original Carson is still out there?

No, I don't have an explanation, but then I don't know how this clone Carson has Carson's memories either. And Joe M. did say something along the lines of only Michael knowing how. (I hope this isn't a euphemism for the writers' not having figured it out yet.)

[TDgamer]

Not sure if this was already mentioned (if so, I apologize), but what if the Carson in Sunday and the Carson from The Kindred were both clones and the original Carson is still out there?

No, I don't have an explanation, but then I don't know how this clone Carson has Carson's memories either. And Joe M. did say something along the lines of only Michael knowing how. (I hope this isn't a euphemism for the writers' not having figured it out yet.)

Not likely. The clone needs the injection and if the one who died in "Sunday" was a clone he would have needed it as well.

[erb]

Not likely. The clone needs the injection and if the one who died in "Sunday" was a clone he would have needed it as well.

Or not. Could be a different type of clone.

I'm not wedded to this idea. The one in Sunday being the original and the one in The Kindred being a clone is the easiest explanation, but that doesn't necessarily make it so.

From a revenge standpoint, you'd think Michael would want original Carson. But, if he couldn't manage it, he couldn't manage it, I suppose.

[sg1_david]

I've never been one of those "angry" fans before but this really annoys me. The last 5 seconds of Part 1 were the best 5 seconds of Atlantis for ages. The best character Atlantis has had is back - then they tell us he's a clone? COME ON!

Chalk up another for "wish the clone had died in Sunday".

[Black Panther]

The point is that this is not Carson, this is a genetically engineered identical twin brother of Carson with Carson's memories implanted in his mind. He's not a "fake" or a "cheap copy", but he is a different human individual from the Carson Beckett that the team knew. It's better than no appearances, of course, and it provides a reason for him to be recurring rather than regular (though going back to his family or dealing with personal issues might also qualify as such a reason).

I sympathize with him as much as I would with Carson, I just think they should address at some point in Season Five that this is another man. Having the same memories does not make him the same consciousness, and having the same DNA certainly doesn't (witness real-life identical siblings, or Boomer and Athena on BSG).

I completely agree. My sister and I were talking about this yesterday. We have come to the conclusion that it is disrespectful and insulting to make the Clone Carson a replacement for Carson. Not only for the original but for the clone as well. He is an idividual that deserves to be loved for who he is and have his own life.