'The Kindred, Part 2' (419) General Discussion

[cabouse18]

they did it twice. also the real Carson is still dead so technically he didn't return

EDIT: what Brian said

It is splitting hairs now. They killed the character of Carson Beckett off the show so any embodiment of him returning is them bringing the character back from the dead. If Paul M had returned as another character then yes, I would say Beckett didn't return but the fact that they brought the character of Beckett back to fill the same role he was in when he died, then they brought him back from the dead.

I guess I understand where you are coming from. When Carson was killed in SGA, I felt a pang of sorrow in my heart and was sad. That was before I knew some stuff that would happen in the show before hand anyway. Everytime I watched Sunday, I felt the same sadness, but I'll never really watch it the same way again. I'll just be like, "meh, once I get to season 4 I'll get to see him come back again, so oh well."

Kinda takes away from the dramatic impact of a main cast member getting killed knowing that he'll be back soon.

Yes and in that respect, as Jelgate, they cheapened death. They have effectively made "Sunday," by far the most moving episode of the series, moot and lessened the effect of drama they were trying to portray. I'm am in the same mind, I can't watch Sunday the same way ever again.

[Killdeer]

Yes and in that respect, as Jelgate, they cheapened death. They have effectively made "Sunday," by far the most moving episode of the series, moot and lessened the effect of drama they were trying to portray. I'm am in the same mind, I can't watch Sunday the same way ever again.

Well....I actually never liked Sunday that much anyway. Sorry! Even if Carson had never come back, I wouldn't like it. So it's not ruining anything for me.

[ShadowMaat]

if you ever have a heartattack and are defib'd are you gonna turn to the medic and be all "oh noooo !!! not again, another person brought back to life ?! just cos you CAN bring me back, doesn't mean you SHOULD !! sometimes the dead should STAY dead !!"

We aren't talking about a matter of seconds or minutes, we're talking about MONTHS or in some cases YEARS. And in most cases it isn't the original who's coming back but some altered version of the original.

I'm against over-used gimmicks and the exploitation of loopholes to bring characters back and ramp up the ratings. I don't expect everyone to agree with me as that would be arrogant and asinine, but I've already gone over why I don't like it and frankly that should be enough. Nitpicking, dismissing and/or teasing me isn't going to change my mind; if anything it just solidifies my opinion. Whether you (generally speaking) agree with my reasoning or not, it's what works for me.

To bring this thread somewhat back on topic and to reiterate my earlier point, I think bringing Carson back in ANY form is a mistake and as much as I loved the character I sincerely wish TPTB had just left well enough alone.

[Jumper_One]

It is splitting hairs now. They killed the character of Carson Beckett off the show so any embodiment of him returning is them bringing the character back from the dead. If Paul M had returned as another character then yes, I would say Beckett didn't return but the fact that they brought the character of Beckett back to fill the same role he was in when he died, then they brought him back from the dead.

of course it's splitting hairs the only characters that have been brought back are Daniel and Carson imo. real or clone doesn't matter, Carson's back

[Briangate78]

i think that's what caught me off guard, i'd heard all of these clever theories from sga fans and discussed interesting ideas with my pals about how carson can return and not be a fake, and then he ended up a cloney.. which sorta felt like a cop-out..

tho now that i'm over the initial shock of the situation, it was a good episode.. i liked carson being practically carried by the back of his pants by ro - gold ! and i loved the dog's breakfast remark - shameless ! and i should just keep thanking my lucky stars that carson is back at all..

I think if folks rewatch this episode again, they will enjoy it even more. I've watched it 4 times, and the last scene was just so heartfeld. The team has accepted this Carson because he had proved himself. I think this is what makes a series so deep and complex when you have this sorta thing happen. SGA takes more risks than SG-1 ever did. Still SG-1 is my favorite, there is just something to be said about your first.

[Willow'sCat]

Again, it is not that I am not happy to see Carson, I just think they never should have killed him off in the first place b/c now look at what they have gone and done in order to bring him back.

What it comes down to is having to live with the original decision you made. You made the bed, now lay in it.!

The problem is that tptb are trying to bring him back as if he never died. We already have fans saying it is Carson, he has his memories, his emotions, he is Carson.

To me he is never going to be Carson, he will always be a clone, inferior, a cliche, a cave in to fandom demands.

Actually if it was the originall Carson then it would be cheap. A clone was clever and well done. The original Carson is dead and not coming back. So technically a dead character has technically not returned.

And yet you are happy to go on and call this Carson? I have read your posts where you say that this is Carson. This is not Carson it is no more then a copy, copies are not the real thing. Try selling a copy of the Mona Lisa for over a 100 bucks.

We get no ethical or moral slant to this, just like SGA always does, experiments on Wraith that is fine they are alien monsters... have a clone in the city with little guarding that is fine he looks just like someone who died!

Also, if you think this is clever and original you need to watch more quality TV... this is niether.

But I wasn't a fan of the original series and didn't see most of the instances you are referencing. I don't want to be penalized with the loss of my favorite character in THIS show because of what has been done in another.

Stargate to me is SGA.

You have never watched any scifi in your whole life? Never seen a TV show that has done this? Well good for you, you can watch this in ignorant bliss.

I see what you mean. however we never saw the real Weir again after Adrift so technically she didn't return. Daniel was brought back, ITA with that. Apophis was revived through the sarcophagus (how many times?) and Baal was cloned but he wasn't really gone right? Fraiser returned for one ep and she was from an AU, as was Kawalsky. only Daniel and Carson were really gone and brought back imo. and this is kinda OT

We saw a women who may or may not be Weir in BAMSR. We only assume it was a Replicator because the show told us real Weir died. We have no proof she wasn't the real one.

I guess I understand where you are coming from. When Carson was killed in SGA, I felt a pang of sorrow in my heart and was sad. That was before I knew some stuff that would happen in the show before hand anyway. Everytime I watched Sunday, I felt the same sadness, but I'll never really watch it the same way again. I'll just be like, "meh, once I get to season 4 I'll get to see him come back again, so oh well."

I gave Sunday a 10/10 what a waste now.

Kinda takes away from the dramatic impact of a main cast member getting killed knowing that he'll be back soon.

Exactly, So why not just kill someone every season and bring them back the next! It is bad enough when they do it in an ep, like Doppelganger where you know pretty much McKay wasn't dead but now, well maybe next time he will be dead but in two or three eps they will clone him so no worries.

[Myles]

Ok, at the surface you can blindly lump all the characters 'brought back from the dead' but they all did it under different circumstances except Daniel, which isn't even SGA. Weir had nanites, Ford had the Wraith thing, Carson was a clone. That's 3 'gimmicks' in 4 seasons. Why is that a huge problem?

Also, how does him coming back 2 seasons later make his death any less sorrowig in Sunday? It's very real, and just cuz he comes back as clone some 30 episodes later shouldn't make it any less so.

[Jumper_One]

We saw a women who may or may not be Weir in BAMSR. We only assume it was a Replicator because the show told us real Weir died. We have no proof she wasn't the real one.

correct but I think the chances of this not being the real Weir are pretty hogh. however you're right we don't know for sure. let's hope TBTB address this issue in s5

[Briangate78]

The problem is that tptb are trying to bring him back as if he never died. We already have fans saying it is Carson, he has his memories, his emotions, he is Carson.

To me he is never going to be Carson, he will always be a clone, inferior, a cliche, a cave in to fandom demands.
And yet you are happy to go on and call this Carson? I have read your posts where you say that this is Carson. This is not Carson it is no more then a copy, copies are not the real thing. Try selling a copy of the Mona Lisa for over a 100 bucks.

We get no ethical or moral slant to this, just like SGA always does, experiments on Wraith that is fine they are alien monsters... have a clone in the city with little guarding that is fine he looks just like someone who died!

Also, if you think this is clever and original you need to watch more quality TV... this is niether.

I am happy to go on calling him Carson. I think the whole idea of him a clone and how the others are willing to accept him or not is a whole moral issue that truly adds a lot of depth to this show.

As per watching more quality TV, yeah well, it is all based on opinion of what is good quality and bad quality.

[Crichiel]

Gah! I was traveling on Friday night and totally forgot about SGA for the first time all year! Sheesh! What was I thinking, actualy enjoyng the beautiful sights of Hawaii instead of watching tv??!!

Anyway, now I was wondering, do I need to see The Kindred pt 2 BEFORE I see The Last Man next week? I haven't read any of your spoilers for it here. I wanted to be surprised. But I will be at a hotel coming back home this Friday and wanted to watch the season finale. Now I am worried it will mention things about Kindred pt 2 and ruin the surprise. What do you guys think? Should I watch The Last Man? Or should I wait until Saturday and watch them both in order on the DVR?

[Jumper_One]

Gah! I was traveling on Friday night and totally forgot about SGA for the first time all year! Sheesh! What was I thinking, actualy enjoyng the beautiful sights of Hawaii instead of watching tv??!!

Anyway, now I was wondering, do I need to see The Kindred pt 2 BEFORE I see The Last Man next week? I haven't read any of your spoilers for it here. I wanted to be surprised. But I will be at a hotel coming back home this Friday and wanted to watch the season finale. Now I am worried it will mention things about Kindred pt 2 and ruin the surprise. What do you guys think? Should I watch The Last Man? Or should I wait until Saturday and watch them both in order on the DVR?

IDK if you need to watch Part 2 before TLM but I think you should

[Chailyn]

Geez, this one was worse than last week's.

I was disappointed to see Carson back as a clone and the fact that they're basically storing him on ice until he fits the plot. I don't think they handled his return very well. That said, I liked seeing him again. While I enjoyed Keller in the first half of the season, I've grown tired of her. She needs to go. Seeing her on screen with Carson really confirmed that for me.

I continue to enjoy Michael as a character and still feel sympathetic toward him whether that's the intention or not. Connor has done and continues to do a stand up job.

But, there was too much squeezed into this episode and, as a result, nothing really came together. Carson's return could have been an episode all to itself, but his story ended up being shared with Teyla, which made both plots weak. Honestly, Teyla got the short end of the stick though. All season we've been "building up" to the promise of her arc, and it's completely fallen flat. We found the Athosians. Mystery solved. Big deal. Boring.

Season 4 really hasn't been good to her character. She was basically carted around all episode, saying a bunch of simple questions and obvious dialogue. Her whole plot has turned cliche. And, oh look, she gets captured again at the end. Now, we'll have a least one more episode spent trying to find her. Again. Way to go, Teyla.

More than Teyla's crappy storyline or Carson's simplistic return, I really felt for the first time all season that the acting was off. Besides David, Paul, and Connor, everyone else was just really bad. Some of the poor expressions/acting was really distracting for me. I don't know who directed this, but the cast fell flat. They seemed to be sleepwalking through it. I've never seen that happen before in an ep.

Next week's better be good. I started out loving season 4. My reviews were blushing in awe. But the second half has been one stinker after the next. They can't go from awesome to terrible in one season, especially not at the end, and expect to continue on. SGA needs consistancy.

[erb]

You have never watched any scifi in your whole life? Never seen a TV show that has done this? Well good for you, you can watch this in ignorant bliss.

I made it quite obvious I was referring to the original Stargate series as those were the examples given.

I actually watch a lot of scifi. Scifi is the one genre where I expect to see death not necessarily being final. So, yes, I have seen dead characters returned in different methods in other non-stargate shows. What's your point? That I must have a problem with this because you do?

Would I always be fine with the return of a dead character? Probably not. But I sure am not anti it on general principle

I don't expect everyone to agree with me as that would be arrogant and asinine, but I've already gone over why I don't like it and frankly that should be enough. Nitpicking, dismissing and/or teasing me isn't going to change my mind; if anything it just solidifies my opinion. Whether you (generally speaking) agree with my reasoning or not, it's what works for me.

And I understand where you are coming from, even if I don't feel the same. And I'm also being belittled for expressing the opposite.

[Killdeer]

There's now a poll about whether you think they should have brought Carson back or not.

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=52277

[PG15]

IDK if you need to watch Part 2 before TLM but I think you should

No, no...he NEEDS to watch this. It's pretty important.