'The Kindred, Part 1' (418) General Discussion

[CassandraSGA]

Wasn't it mentioned after "Poisoning the Well" that the Hoffans had been destroyed by the Wraith?? It must have been mentioned somewhere cos I knew that had happened and I'm not related to any of the writers of the show.
I think the conitunuity thing has been fine. Michael is an ongoing plot line and it's not like their adventures are a weekly thing. (Teyla is already over 6months pregnant and it hasn't been that long in terms of the show ) This disease has been spreading for a while but that's all back story innit.

[Rachel500]

Continuity for me is simply consistency in characterisation, backstory, ongoing consequences that relate to established events, etc.

There is bad and good continuity. For example, the invincibility device that shows up in S1 and then shows up in S3 demonstrates bad continuity in that it suddenly changes properties without any explanation for the change. Good continuity is McKay's lemon allergy, ability to eat in times of crisis, etc - or Teyla's comment to Shep that she'll head for the gate at the first sign of trouble which alludes back to their previous discussions on her being off-world on missions and pregnant.

The issue for me in the introduction of the plague, reintroduction of Michael, and the revisit to the Athosians are missing stuff is not so much with the continuity of these elements (it could be argued some of it is good, some bad) as with the actual story-telling in how they were introduced/reintroduced.

Arcs need to be planned very carefully with references in stories that don't focus on them so they stay fresh in the audiences' minds. The series did a good job of introducing the Athosians are missing stuff, good follow-up in The Seer, in Teyla's expression of worry regarding her child being without a family in Quarantine but the search for her people, her worries, etc really hasn't been touched upon in the last half of the season making it seem jolting when its suddenly the focus of a story again.

There needs to be build-up, foreshadowing, hints, references. Unfortunately, I think focusing on arcs is still a bit of a work in progress for TPTB - they are much more used to story of the week stuff. Hence why we suddenly get the plague without any build-up. With a little bit more thought they could have used a then unknown plague as the reason for the visit to the mining planet in Trio which would have led nicely into this.

I have more sympathy with them over introducing Kanaan given they were surprised with Luttrell's real life pregnancy but again, it would have been nice to have seen him earlier even in flashback so we got a little more invested in him as a character.

I think its great they are focusing on arcs; I just hope they continue to improve on how they execute them.

[ShadowMaat]

Plague across a few worlds, you say? 30% of the population dead, you say? Where was the Atlantis medical/humanitarian aid? Where was Dr. Firefly while people were dying? Talking about Colbert in a hole with Sam and Mckay?

Yeah, there's that, too. I'm tired of telling, not showing, and if it's gotten to the point where multiple worlds are experiencing a 30% death rate, doesn't that imply it's been around a while? Shouldn't someone have noticed sooner? Or was it of no particular interest until now? How convenient.

[Falcon Horus]

I never thought that continuity had a time limit!!

Did I say there was?

What is your definition of continuity, then? As far as I know, referencing back to past events is maintaining the continuity.

*points down to Shadow's post*

Continuity usually involves dropping hints along the way leading up to a Big Reveal.

Although I do have a legitimate question, seeing as I haven't been watching: have there been any hints/references to any illnesses, or even rumors of sickness since Carson disappeared? Casual mentions made in passing as such-and-such team comes back from a mission or when AR-1 is in some token village? Unexplained deaths? Missing persons, other than the Athosians? Maybe even Wraith inexplicably turning up dead? That would have been a good way to hint at things and build up the mystery without devoting whole episodes to it. The leap from Poisoning the Well to Kindred is pretty big, but it'd be moderately less so if the idea had been seeded a little earlier. Or did Carson ever give indication that he was continuing to work on the Hoffan drug after PtW? That would help, too, and add to Michael's reasons for abducting him.

Nope, not a peep.

Continuity for me is simply consistency in characterisation, backstory, ongoing consequences that relate to established events, etc.

*points up* Also, not a bad explanation of how I would view continuity.

I think its great they are focusing on arcs; I just hope they continue to improve on how they execute them.

I'm still waiting for it ... the arc, I mean...

[randy23]

Not sure what part that refers to in my post... Excuse me my ignorance there.

Beckett did help the Hoffans, I remember that since I am currently in the process of running a SGA marathon.
But it's the fact that they forgot about the Hoffans for 3 whole seasons and suddenly they're back. That's not continuity, that's searching the archives for a way to try to be plausible on your storytelling. Maybe we should be lucky they remember them, cause there are quite few things and persons we'll never hear or see again, who fell down the black hole of storytelling.

Well since the SGA expedition does explore and meet new people, races -- writers trying to consistently insert past groups for the sake of recognizing their existence is unrealistic; however, the writers do make a point to referrence certain groups from time to time.

Hoffans' information is continuity, as it is relevant to the story in which the writers are trying to present. The character, Orlin, came back in SG1 to aid and shed light about the Ori's true intentions; Micheal's situation and the use of the Hoffan's drug is no different.

[Falcon Horus]

Well since the SGA expedition does explore and meet new people, races -- writers trying to consistently insert past groups for the sake of recognizing their existence is unrealistic; however, the writers do make a point to referrence certain groups from time to time.

I don't expect them to be mentioned every other episode... but you can recognize the fact that suddenly mentioning the Hoffans as semi-important to the story (Michael using the drug for his own agenda) is more like a "Oh remember the Hoffans and their drug. Remember that story from way back. How about we use that again... Like a surprise-element, like showing them we havn't forgotten about them." ... You can bet on it, they weren't looking for continuity but more a plot device to get their story going. And after the Kindred they will never mention the Hoffans or their drug again till maybe in season 8 (which I don't see happening)... so never again.

[jelgate]

I don't expect them to be mentioned every other episode... but you can recognize the fact that suddenly mentioning the Hoffans as semi-important to the story (Michael using the drug for his own agenda) is more like a "Oh remember the Hoffans and their drug. Remember that story from way back. How about we use that again... Like a surprise-element, like showing them we havn't forgotten about them." ... You can bet on it, they weren't looking for continuity but more a plot device to get their story going. And after the Kindred they will never mention the Hoffans or their drug again till maybe in season 8 (which I don't see happening)... so never again.

Well, its not like they haven't done that before. The Gamekeeper chair was used in S2 and their was no mention of it until S8

[Briangate78]

Well, its not like they haven't done that before. The Gamekeeper chair was used in S2 and their was no mention of it until S8

Hey at least they are using some classic story and combining it with a new story arc and mixing it with a return of a foe and a lost friend. Gotta say it was clever thinking. No wonder why the show is maintaining it's audience from last season ( Feels good to say that since it's true)

[Falcon Horus]

Well, its not like they haven't done that before. The Gamekeeper chair was used in S2 and their was no mention of it until S8

Wait... *thinks* ... Avatar? Only saw season 8 once... If I remember correctly it was the semi-game environment episode...and again the chair was a plotdevice.

[Briangate78]

Wait... *thinks* ... Avatar? Only saw season 8 once... If I remember correctly it was the semi-game environment episode...and again the chair was a plotdevice.

Yeah it was the episode where Teal'c goes into the virtual game and he gets stuck and then Daniel goes in to try and help get him out.

[jelgate]

Wait... *thinks* ... Avatar? Only saw season 8 once... If I remember correctly it was the semi-game environment episode...and again the chair was a plotdevice.

That was my point. Stargate has done continunity like this for years as a plot device. Its not actually a new idea in the franchise

(I apologize for spelling errors. I am sleep deprivied.)

[Ruffles]

I thought revisiting the Hoffan storyline was very clever. They never meant to go this route originally, but with Rachel's pregnancy they made adjustments. I'm sure in late S2, they never considered having Teyla pregnant. We were given almost certainties at the end of PtW that the Wraith would destroy the Hoffans. I can't imagine where the fact that Shep and co (or another team) returned to Hoff and found them all dead would fit in a later ep.

I understand the complaint about Kanaan, and it would have been good to have seen him earlier (having a voiceover in Missing of Teyla describing him while actually showing them together would have been nice), but again, Rachel told them she was pregnant as they were writing Missing (and had several other eps already written). S*** happens. We could have seen the Athosians more often, but frankly they aren't that interesting - a bunch of farmers and hunters that like the Lantians.

PtW was a pivotal ep for Beckett in learning who he was. While they could have had Michael create some other kind of toxin/disease in his bid for galactic domination - why? They already had one that was lethal to humans and Wraith. What more could Michael want? I thought it was brilliant to use it as a foreshadowing of Beckett returning (although if I hadn't been spoiled to the fact he was returning, I wonder if I would have picked up on it).

I agree that they could have shown a disease-ravaged town with people dying as medical personnel worked feverishly in the background or could have had the other teams (that we don't see) mention sickness on planets they've visited. I guess I assumed that "for some time" meant in the past couple of months, and we know that time is relative in the Stargate world - sometimes weeks or months have passed between eps. The fact that we hadn't seen any evidence of it onscreen this season never even hit my radar.

[ShadowMaat]

Just because they've been doing it for years doesn't make it right. I want to say people grumbled about the "Oh, by the way..." with the chair, too, although that was a long while back and I could be mis-remembering it.

[randy23]

I don't expect them to be mentioned every other episode... but you can recognize the fact that suddenly mentioning the Hoffans as semi-important to the story (Michael using the drug for his own agenda) is more like a "Oh remember the Hoffans and their drug. Remember that story from way back. How about we use that again... Like a surprise-element, like showing them we havn't forgotten about them." ... You can bet on it, they weren't looking for continuity but more a plot device to get their story going. And after the Kindred they will never mention the Hoffans or their drug again till maybe in season 8 (which I don't see happening)... so never again.

Falcon, there's still another part to this story. We'll have to wait and see, like how Beckett was brought back to life, how Micheal came across the Hoffan's drug apart from probing or possibly torturing Beckett, who seemed to be in pretty descent shape at the end of Kindred.

[ShadowMaat]

Actually, I have a pretty good idea how Carson might still be alive.

Spoiler:

He's been snatched up by a Wraith dart before, hasn't he? So his pattern might still have been in a buffer somewhere, ready to be copied out again.

Or at least that's the first thing I thought of when I saw it was the Wraith that had him. *shrug*

Spoiler:

Can't remember far back enough to say how likely it is, but if, for instance, he'd been buffered in S1, that might explain the relevance of the Hoffans while building off events in S2, although that'd put a pretty weird spin on things with Michael seeing as Carson didn't "create" him until S2. If true, I wonder if Michael has told Carson of his origin and the Good Doctor's part in it or if he chose to keep him in the dark and just made general references about how he came to be.

It'd be an interesting direction to take. Maybe I will watch part 2 just to see how they explain things.

Or am I wildly off base and what I'm guessing never actually happened? Or at least never happened on the show itself. Knowing TPTB's penchant for offscreen storytelling (with an emphasis on telling, not showing), anything is possible.