To the people who said Keller was too young.

[EdenSG]

The post was more to point out she was qualifed to the people who keep screaming "She isn't qualified she would have had to gone to med school at age 0"

I know what you mean I wouldn't want her treating me. I'm just saying her character isn't as unbelievable as people think IMHO. I mean people believe time travel, parallel univereses, gate travel, Life sucking aliens (maybe where the mythos of vampires came from... hmmmm idea for another thread). But people can't believe Keller as a CMO. I find it petty I really do.

Good post, excellent points (especially the part I bolded)

Most of the arguments in this thread are based on assumptions.

Assuming what Keller’s age is.
Assuming what her experience level is.
Assuming one knows where the hazmats suits are. (even with my previous post I cannot say where the suits are, I can only assume)
Assuming what the qualifications to be CMO on Atlantis are.

My final assumption on this matter is, she is there, she has the job so in the world of Stargate - not the real world - she is qualified on some level to be there.

[VSS]

Good post, excellent points (especially the part I bolded)

Most of the arguments in this thread are based on assumptions.

Assuming what Keller’s age is.
Assuming what her experience level is.
Assuming one knows where the hazmats suits are. (even with my previous post I cannot say where the suits are, I can only assume)
Assuming what the qualifications to be CMO on Atlantis are.

My final assumption on this matter is, she is there, she has the job so in the world of Stargate - not the real world - she is qualified on some level to be there.

I see you subscribe to Gottfried Liebniz's best-of-all-possible-worlds philosophy.

Just remember, TBTB aren't really God, they just play them on TV.

[Emme]

I understood your point. To get her qualifications for CMO of Atlantis and as a neurosurgeon, she needs ten more years.

ten more years or 10 years from someone else using a memory implantation device : )

[PG15]

mmmm....wonder what hat says about what Shep thinks about Keller's abilities - and he should know having had that particular treatment enough times!

No, he shouldn't know, since he'd be unconscious any time CPR was performed on him.

[ciannwn]

Medical procedures and what expertise she's shown so far really comes down to the fact that she does whatever the scriptwriters tell her to. What if Beckett had still been CMO for this season? He couldn't have operated on Weir and succeeded where Keller failed because the plot required Weir to be injected with nanites. He couldn't have cured Davos of cancer either because the plot required him to die during the course of the story. Would he even have acted differently in 'Doppelganger' when Heightmeyer is found dead in bed?

If the scriptwriter had wanted Keller to put on a hazmat suit he'd have arranged for her to do so. I'm guessing that he didn't want her to because of that scene where she and Ronon are just about to kiss before getting distracted by the lights going off and on. It wouldn't have had quite the same effect if they'd started to lean towards each other and she'd had to stop to take a helmet off.

[Emme]

Medical procedures and what expertise she's shown so far really comes down to the fact that she does whatever the scriptwriters tell her to. What if Beckett had still been CMO for this season? He couldn't have operated on Weir and succeeded where Keller failed because the plot required Weir to be injected with nanites. He couldn't have cured Davos of cancer either because the plot required him to die during the course of the story. Would he even have acted differently in 'Doppelganger' when Heightmeyer is found dead in bed?

If the scriptwriter had wanted Keller to put on a hazmat suit he'd have arranged for her to do so. I'm guessing that he didn't want her to because of that scene where she and Ronon are just about to kiss before getting distracted by the lights going off and on. It wouldn't have had quite the same effect if they'd started to lean towards each other and she'd had to stop to take a helmet off.

Very good points. This is similar to what Ive said before. But people want this to be a medical drama. Stargate Atlantis-E.R. with special guest star Todd the wraith as Dr Lief Suckar.

"Dr were losing her"
"I'll hold her hand Mwahaaahaaaaaaa"

[Avenger]

I kinda doubt that's all that's needed to be CMO at an USAF base... if so, then the US Air Force's got low standards.

Don't doubt it because you don't like it. The minimum standards for the job were posted.

Anyway, a CMO/manager needs to be be able to delegate tasks in cases of emergency ("You! Take this guy! You! Your speciliaty is better for that guy!"). They need to have experience in, you know, leading (which Jennifer obviously didn't when she was appointed to the job) and work well under pressure (something she didn't really do well either, as showcased in "Missing", though she eventually overcame it all, but the point here is that she had to overcome it in the first place). They need extensive experience in their field and possibly also the fields of the people below them.

And what says a person can't be as cool as a cucumber in a triage situation but would be freaked out while being hunted by cannibals on another planet? Sorry, but that doesn't fly. I'm quite confident when I'm in the forest when it's on fire and it's my job to put it out, but I wouldn't be if I was at a bank and a bunch of guys busted in with guns to rob the place. Both are pressure situations, but I'm much equipped to handle the first scenario.

What if they have to perform a crucial surgery and make a mistake? Or one of their subordinates makes a mistake and they miss it? This is where the experience kicks in and if you've seen it before, you'll recognize what's wrong/right and immediately spring into action to correct it.

Not all doctors are surgeons. Nor does a CMO have to be. Not that we've seen a staff, but there could be a surgeon on the medical staff for all we know.

And hey, there's a weird clause in there about constantly searching out new and better ways to improve healthcare and prevent injuries. Well, Carson was a researcher as well, Jennifer isn't (as far as we know). But that's not really an important enough point to stress.

Not every doctor goes into the research field, and once they do, very few of them actually continue to practice medicine unless it is related specifically to their research.

Also, "search out better ways to improve health care" does not necessarily have anything to do with research. Improving health care can mean improve a patient's experience while in a hospital, increasing the speed at which a patient receives care, or decreasing the length of a hospital stay.

[Emme]

Unbelievably well said.

[FallenAngelII]

Just a point on the hazmat suits.

Yes, I do know what hazmat suits do. The main purpose is to protect the person wearing it from getting infected, not to have an infected peson wear it to protect others. You do not store hazmat suits in treatment areas. You can store them near treatment areas.

No, they can be used to protect people against an infected person as well. Let's see... on an entire base with 100 people, only 2 are infected. What do you do in order to have them travel through the base to the infirmary? Have the other 98 people put on hazmat suits? No, you get the infected people to put them on.

Look at this scenario. If someone comes to the infirmary ill and the doctor discovered they had a highly contagious, deadly infection then that area, then everyone and everything in that area would immediately be considered “dirty” or infected – especially at first if you can not be sure how the contagion is being transferred.

O... K... what about the many times where dangerous contagions will be caught by the Atlantis lockdown protocol? If someone steps through the gate or spontaneously develops something and Atlantis notices it, it'll alert everyone.

What's easier to do, have Keller walk across some rooms to get a hazmat suit in preparation, wasting valuable time, or simply put one on? This is Atlantis, not a normal hospital.

I'm not saying they probably stockpile them in there. But they should have a few of them for the most important doctors in case of an outbreak that didn't start in the infirmary (like, say, what Jennifer thought was happening in "Quarantine").

My final assumption on this matter is, she is there, she has the job so in the world of Stargate - not the real world - she is qualified on some level to be there.

I can go to Atlantis. Doesn't mean I'll be automatically qualified to take over Rodney's job. She was there as a doctor. Then Carson died and Elizabeth, in a moment of uncharacteristically bad judgement, appointed her interim CMO. It's not like she "auditioned" and beat everyone else out.

Medical procedures and what expertise she's shown so far really comes down to the fact that she does whatever the scriptwriters tell her to. What if Beckett had still been CMO for this season? He couldn't have operated on Weir and succeeded where Keller failed because the plot required Weir to be injected with nanites. He couldn't have cured Davos of cancer either because the plot required him to die during the course of the story. Would he even have acted differently in 'Doppelganger' when Heightmeyer is found dead in bed?

The question is not "What would Carson have done differently". The question is "What if there's a dire situation that Jennifer can't deal with because she doesn't have the situation needed" or "What if Jennifer makes a crucial mistake anyone with the experience required wouldn't"?`Just because it hasn't happend doesn't mean it can't happen. Why do you appoint people with experience to these situations? So that they don't screw up royally when they run into a major problem that their experience will tell them what to do. Having Jennifer as CMO is elevating said risk because she must logically lack a lot of vital experience for the job.

If the scriptwriter had wanted Keller to put on a hazmat suit he'd have arranged for her to do so. I'm guessing that he didn't want her to because of that scene where she and Ronon are just about to kiss before getting distracted by the lights going off and on. It wouldn't have had quite the same effect if they'd started to lean towards each other and she'd had to stop to take a helmet off.

Bad excuse. "Plot called for it". Doesn't mean we can't complain about how bad the plot is. Of course everything on Atlantis is based on plot. We're complaining about the bad plot.

Don't doubt it because you don't like it. The minimum standards for the job were posted.

Which sounded a lot like the minimum requirements for being a doctor at a general hospital.

And what says a person can't be as cool as a cucumber in a triage situation but would be freaked out while being hunted by cannibals on another planet? Sorry, but that doesn't fly. I'm quite confident when I'm in the forest when it's on fire and it's my job to put it out, but I wouldn't be if I was at a bank and a bunch of guys busted in with guns to rob the place. Both are pressure situations, but I'm much equipped to handle the first scenario.

Because this is Atlantis. You have to be tempered if you're to go off-world (which the CMO will occasionally do). Let's see... if you were putting out a fire in the bank, would you stop putting it out, freak out and whine excessively?

She's young, inexperienced and immature. People who aren't those things would probably be able to do crucial surgery necessary for survival and then flee the scene quickly without freaking out and whining. I'm not saying she's required to be able to do that (yet). I'm saying: How much easier wouldn't it be for the residents of Atlantis if she were from the start? What if that situation had happened in some other planet where they were being hunted by really evil people and three people's survival hinged on her not whining and freaking?

I dislike and fear a lot of things. Doesn't mean I won't be able to try to ignore that should push come to shove. Carson would occasionally fret, but he was always ready to do his job should the situation call for it.

Not all doctors are surgeons. Nor does a CMO have to be. Not that we've seen a staff, but there could be a surgeon on the medical staff for all we know.

I never said anything like that. But Jennifer is a surgeon (in fact, she's probably one of their best surgeons if not their very best at the moment). If something happens, she'll be one of the people operating.

Not every doctor goes into the research field, and once they do, very few of them actually continue to practice medicine unless it is related specifically to their research.

In Atlantis' case, it's kinda necessary, what with the new diseases never-before-seen.

[ciannwn]

Bad excuse. "Plot called for it". Doesn't mean we can't complain about how bad the plot is. Of course everything on Atlantis is based on plot. We're complaining about the bad plot.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't complain about bad plots and I think it's great that people are stating which elements of the plots they've based their opinions on. What we're really looking at, though, is what the writers did for plot purposes and giving our views on whether or not these plot elements make Keller look like a competent and believable CMO.

I'm not saying she's required to be able to do that (yet). I'm saying: How much easier wouldn't it be for the residents of Atlantis if she were from the start?

It would have been easier for a lot of viewers too.

[Avenger]

Because this is Atlantis. You have to be tempered if you're to go off-world (which the CMO will occasionally do). Let's see... if you were putting out a fire in the bank, would you stop putting it out, freak out and whine excessively?

How are civilian doctors going to be legitimately "tempered" for off world work in potential combat zones? Unless they served in the military or were part of some kind of UN peace keeping operation, it's just not going to happen.

You misread my post. Let me clarify it. I like fighting wildfires, but if I were out on a fire and then was suddenly to be chased by the crazy, white trash hillbillies from Deliverance who wanted to do very, shall I say, very undesirable things to me, I'd be scared ****less.

So far, Keller has been quite calm in medical emergencies and handled them extremely well. She did not handle being out in the woods while being chased by people who wanted to catch her and eat her. You can't use the way she reacted to the later to judge how she would handle the pressure of a stressful medical situation because they are not the same kinds of situations.

She's young, inexperienced and immature. People who aren't those things would probably be able to do crucial surgery necessary for survival and then flee the scene quickly without freaking out and whining. I'm not saying she's required to be able to do that (yet). I'm saying: How much easier wouldn't it be for the residents of Atlantis if she were from the start? What if that situation had happened in some other planet where they were being hunted by really evil people and three people's survival hinged on her not whining and freaking?

She has yet to freak in a situation where she was needed as a doctor.

I dislike and fear a lot of things. Doesn't mean I won't be able to try to ignore that should push come to shove. Carson would occasionally fret, but he was always ready to do his job should the situation call for it.

It's funny when people use this kind of statement to try to prove a point because it does not prove anything. You can not assume how you think you would react in a situation applies to all people.

I never said anything like that. But Jennifer is a surgeon (in fact, she's probably one of their best surgeons if not their very best at the moment). If something happens, she'll be one of the people operating.

Then perhaps you should wait until she faces a difficult surgical situation before jumping to the conclusion that she's going to freak out because of the stress.

In Atlantis' case, it's kinda necessary, what with the new diseases never-before-seen.

No one complained that Carson was a completely unrealistic doctor who had the time to do all kinds of cutting edge research and keep his medical skills up to snuff. That doesn't happen in the real world either.

[Emme]

Which sounded a lot like the minimum requirements for being a doctor at a general hospital.

But weren't! It may have sounded that way but it's not.

Check the article again. as my friend Avenger would put it 'don't doubt it just because you don't like it'

[joebags]

I still haven't seen Keller do anything that proves to me she is a competent doctor or surgeon. All I hear come out of her mouth is, "There is nothing I can do" or "I don't kow what else to do." We know one thing, she doesn't do CPR correctly.

Yes, we saw her open Weir's head, but a neurosurgeon cannot operate on a heart, or put bones together, or treat cancer. These are all specialized fields. Is she a neurosurgeon? Don't know, we've not been told. It would be highly unrealistic to see her doing various operations. She can't be an expert on everything.

Her immaturity - hey, if I were being chased by cannibals, I certainly would NOT be screaming at the top of my lungs! I would hunker down and keep my mouth shut. That's just common sense!

Keller has a big problem being wrapped up in herself. Everything she says is all about me, me, ME! Poor Teyla has just found her family and people missing so what does Keller discuss? How much she misses her daddy and how she is so happy she gets to go visit him. Talk about tactless!

A tender Ronon/Keller moment (an attempt at one anyway) revolved around Ronon discussing his "ex" and how he lost her. Instead of sympathizing with him, she switches the convo to herself and how awful HER life is being such a genius (tough, yes?), and how she missed out on all those parties.

Ronon should know by now - run like hell dude!

Overall I don't think its so much Keller's youth, as it is her mental stability. I don't know how she could ever pass a psych evaluation, and you know to get to Atlantis, she would have had to pass rigourous screening. Most of Atlantis is made up of geniuses - they are a dime a dozen there, so I just can't figure how she even made the grade.

[Avenger]

hey, if I were being chased by cannibals, I certainly would NOT be screaming at the top of my lungs! I would hunker down and keep my mouth shut. That's just common sense!

Telling people what you would do doesn't mean squat. Furthermore, you don't know how you would actually react in that situation.

[Emme]

Her immaturity - hey, if I were being chased by cannibals, I certainly would NOT be screaming at the top of my lungs! I would hunker down and keep my mouth shut. That's just common sense!

Can you give me the time index of where she does this please. I watched it recently and don't remember her screaming at the top of her lungs...........

Keller has a big problem being wrapped up in herself. Everything she says is all about me, me, ME! Poor Teyla has just found her family and people missing so what does Keller discuss? How much she misses her daddy and how she is so happy she gets to go visit him. Talk about tactless!

A tender Ronon/Keller moment (an attempt at one anyway) revolved around Ronon discussing his "ex" and how he lost her. Instead of sympathizing with him, she switches the convo to herself and how awful HER life is being such a genius (tough, yes?), and how she missed out on all those parties.

So you are from the camp of my problems are worse than yours therefore i will dismiss yours as insignificant.
I saw both these convos as character developement we always complain we don't get enough back story. But when we do......... Maybe she was trying to bond make new friends. I think that that conversation about her uber genius was added because the fans are always saying she's too young.
We probably gave them the need to add this info by conversations much like this.
When she told Teyla about being able to go home and see her Dad I wouldn't say tactless. Teyla is a caring person who wouldn't dismiss other people's unhappiness or wallow in self pitty either. I don't think Teyla would have taken it in a gloating kind of way.